Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

[JMM1957]

From the LDS perspective:
Being a Christian is more than a theology quiz. Rather it is about being His disciple: beliefs, actions, words, etc. If a group or person claims to be following Him, we acknowledge that. Now as to how well a group or person does on that discipleship quest is another matter.

Yes, I think I can pretty much agree with much of what you said. I would just add, that “knowing” Him as he is, and not just in name, is of importance, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: Just another thought on this, I spoke of the importance of “knowing”, which, the way I see it, is having at least a basic understanding of who you are offering worship to in the first place, that being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example; You wouldn’t have a serious relationship with someone without having already progressed to the point of knowing some of their background, where they came from, their characteristics, interests, etc. Same with God really.

 

[jane_doe]

Yes, I think I can pretty much agree with much of what you said. I would just add, that “knowing” Him as he is, and not just in name, is of importance, if you know what I mean.

Good addition!!

Being a Christian is more than a theology quiz. Rather it is about being His disciple: beliefs, actions, words, knowing Him, etc.

Knowing Him in more than name, but in your heart.

 

[ajcstr]

The same way Catholics acknowledge Protestants as being Christian but lacking the fullness of truth.

I have never heard Protestants be referred to as apostates by Catholics.

By definition however Catholics would be viewed as apostates (incorrectly of course) by protestants.

One can only be considered apostate if they are viewed as once having the truth but strayed from it.

 

[ajcstr]

Good addition!!

Being a Christian is more than a theology quiz. Rather it is about being His disciple: beliefs, actions, words, knowing Him, etc.

Knowing Him in more than name, but in your heart.

Our respective churches would disagree. If they agreed, they would recognize each other’s baptism.

Along these lines, what is the Mormon idea of salvation / justification? This is where the Gospel comes into play.

 

[JMM1957]

I have never heard Protestants be referred to as apostates by Catholics.

By definition however Catholics would be viewed as apostates (incorrectly of course) by protestants.

One can only be considered apostate if they are viewed as once having the truth but strayed from it.

True.

 

[JMM1957]

Our respective churches would disagree. If they agreed, they would recognize each other’s baptism.

I think Baptism would fall under the category of beliefs.

 

[jane_doe]

I have never heard Protestants be referred to as apostates by Catholics.

By definition however Catholics would be viewed as apostates (incorrectly of course) by protestants.

One can only be considered apostate if they are viewed as once having the truth but strayed from it.

Yes, the Catholic church views Protestant churches as apostate: them having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the Catholic church still acknowledges Protestant churches as Christian.

Similarly, the LDS church views other churches as having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the they are still acknowledged as Christian.

• Note: I’m talking about churches here. Individuals are evaluated as individuals.

 

[jane_doe]

Our respective churches would disagree. If they agreed, they would recognize each other’s baptism.

Of course different churches have different views, hence thousands of Christian churches out there. Now which sacraments are acknowledged by who is a different matter. After all, some Christian groups consider sacraments to be unnecessary at all!

 

[JMM1957]

Yes, the Catholic church views Protestant churches as apostate: them having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the Catholic church still acknowledges Protestant churches as Christian.

Similarly, the LDS church views other churches as having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the they are still acknowledged as Christian.

• Note: I’m talking about churches here. Individuals are evaluated as individuals.

This alone is a whole other discussion. Personally, I don’t hear Catholics use the word “apostate” when referring to Protestant’s, although the idea is the same.

 

[ajcstr]

Yes, the Catholic church views Protestant churches as apostate: them having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the Catholic church still acknowledges Protestant churches as Christian.

Similarly, the LDS church views other churches as having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the they are still acknowledged as Christian.

• Note: I’m talking about churches here. Individuals are evaluated as individuals.

I would say (I’m speaking academically here, not judging) that the original reformers may be considered apostate but the churches resulting from their beliefs never had the full truth so can’t be called apostate. Thats the way i see it. Sorry, I have Vulcan like logic sometimes.

 

[jane_doe]

Along these lines, what is the Mormon idea of salvation / justification? This is where the Gospel comes into play.

Going for the short answer here, because this could be a whole thread (and has many times on CAF):
We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ, our savior. It is totally impossible for us to save ourselves. That being said, Christ does not save a sack of potatoes: a person must accept Him fully— in word, deed, belief, repentance etc. Granted, even this acceptance is enabled through the grace of God. It is a life-long endeavor. Part of this endeavor is making promises with God, such as baptism when we take on His name and He washes away our sins.

 

[jane_doe]

I would say (I’m speaking academically here, not judging) that the original reformers may be considered apostate but the churches resulting from their beliefs never had the full truth so can’t be called apostate. Thats the way i see it. Sorry, I have Vulcan like logic sometimes.

No worries, I actually really enjoy the company of fellow Vulcan logic!

 

[ajcstr]

Going for the short answer here, because this could be a whole thread (and has many times on CAF):
We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ, our savior. It is totally impossible for us to save ourselves. That being said, Christ does not save a sack of potatoes: a person must accept Him fully— in word, deed, belief, repentance etc. Granted, even this acceptance is enabled through the grace of God. It is a life-long endeavor. Part of this endeavor is making promises with God, such as baptism when we take on His name and He washes away our sins.

So your baptism is regenerative rather than symbolic?

 

[jane_doe]

So your baptism is regenerative rather than symbolic?

Answering with more layman terminology:
Yes, baptism actually does do something, it’s not an inactive merely symbolic gesture. And that something is critical for a person’s salvation.

 

[ajcstr]

Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the Catholic church still acknowledges Protestant churches as Christian.

Again I really think its tied back to the validity of Baptism. Protestant baptisms are considered valid because we have the same view of the Trinity, specifically God the Father.

 

[ajcstr]

Being a Christian is more than a theology quiz. Rather it is about being His disciple: beliefs, actions, words, knowing Him, etc.

Knowing Him in more than name, but in your heart.

AMEN…That being said Matt 7 21 is one of the scariest verses in the Bible for me personally.

 

[jane_doe]

Again I really think its tied back to the validity of Baptism. Protestant baptisms are considered valid because we have the same view of the Trinity, specifically God the Father.

Again, LDS don’t view being a Christian as a theology quiz, and we acknowledge others as being Christian despite having flawed knowledge. (Again, this is the LDS perspective).

 

[JMM1957]

Yes, the Catholic church views Protestant churches as apostate: them having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the Catholic church still acknowledges Protestant churches as Christian.

Similarly, the LDS church views other churches as having strayed from the truth. Despite this straying & now incomplete truth, the they are still acknowledged as Christian.

• Note: I’m talking about churches here. Individuals are evaluated as individuals.

2 Peter 2: (Maybe not a perfect comparison, but…)

…20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”…

 

[jane_doe]

2 Peter 2: (Maybe not a perfect comparison, but…)

…20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”…

I very much agree with this verse. It is harder for a church or person whom as left to return to Truth, than it is to come to Truth for the first time.

 

[JMM1957]

Again, LDS don’t view being a Christian as a theology quiz, and we acknowledge others as being Christian despite having flawed knowledge. (Again, this is the LDS perspective).

There’s always going to be people on the same path to a certain destination, but they’re not all together in one place, they’re spread out at different points along the way. This is why we can’t judge any of them as to their sincerity of heart, or paint them all with the same brush, that is God’s job, who is the reader of hearts and minds. I do believe we will be judged according to what we know and have been given when our time is up, and those who through no fault of their own, didn’t have the benefit of correct understanding will be judged according to that standard.