Are Mormons and Unitarians Christians?

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They are certainly non-Nicene … and that creed strikes me as the best and most useful way to distinguish “Christian” from “non-Christian.” So, in a word, no.
 
Alright? And? Faulty exegesis doesn’t prove anything. Lots of heresies have popped up even worse than these. The fact of the matter is, as shown in every single Church Father, the historic Christian understanding is the incorporeal nature of God. Honestly, at this point you’re just corroborating for anything now. You’re cherry picking any little thing that might help your belief when on the large scale everything is against you here.
 
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I already pointed that out on my own, and it has been shown that Melito held the opposite view from his own writings. It’s acknowledged that Origen was probably mistaken here.
 
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gazelam said:
Footnote 16 notes that Origen criticizes Melito’s anthropomorphism found in Gen Frg/PG 12.93A.
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St. Melito of Sardis’ work, “Peri ensomatou theou, on the corporeity of God, of which some Syriac fragments have been preserved. It is referred to by Origen (In Gen., i, 26) as showing Melito to have been an Anthropomorphite, the Syriac fragments, however, prove that the author held the opposite doctrine.”
 
gazelam said:
Not sure what cherry picking you’re referring to. The whole point of me sharing this quote is to refute TP6’s incorrect assertion in comment #60 “there is no evidence at all the early Church held to God having a body” Origen clearly states that some early Christians “supposed that God should be understood as a man, that is, adorned with human members and human appearance” in this quote.
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In the early 70’s some Mormons believed that blacks should be allowed to hold the priesthood, but that was not the position held by the Mormon Church. There are Mormons who believe the Book of Mormon is an allegory, but that is not the the position held by the Mormon Church.

The is no evidence that the early Church held that God was once a man or that he had a body.
 
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It’s possible to call a Unitarian a Christian or a heretical Christian sect in a way but a Mormon that’s a whole other question.
 
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If that’s so, can you show an LDS scripture that supports that? No. It’s not an official belief, the best you can show is an obscure line in a hymn and hymns are not scriptures. Many LDS people believe that but no one prays to her like they do to Mary. Oh wait, Mormons never pray to Mary.
 
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It’s worth noting that Baptism does not effect an ontological change in the recipient. Rather, it changes the accidents of being.
 
rmcmullan said:
If that’s so, can you show an LDS scripture that supports that? No. It’s not an official belief, the best you can show is an obscure line in a hymn and hymns are not scriptures. Many LDS people believe that but no one prays to her like they do to Mary. Oh wait, Mormons never pray to Mary.
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The entry for “Mother in Heaven” in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism can be found here: http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Mother_in_Heaven

I hope this helps…
 
rmcmullan said:
If that’s so, can you show an LDS scripture that supports that? No. It’s not an official belief, the best you can show is an obscure line in a hymn and hymns are not scriptures. Many LDS people believe that but no one prays to her like they do to Mary. Oh wait, Mormons never pray to Mary.
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ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents
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The proclamation is a prophetic document
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thephilosopher6 said:
I’ve refuted you on this so many times by this point. You are confusing logical subordinationism with ontological subordinationism, of which the Church Fathers were the former. @gazelam, please just stop.

(Also, just to note, there is no evidence at all the early Church held to God having a body; all suggest he was pure Spirit.)
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The early church had numerous believers in an embodied God. Augustine refused to become a Christian because Christians believe in an embodied God. Origin also witnesses to this belief.
Also, I would be interested in how you demonstrate that the volumes of subordination discussions in the Bible and ECF cannot mean “ontological subordinatiin.” Presumably your definition of “ontological subordination” will facilitate your proof AND then this definition can be used to show LDS embrace “ontological subordination.”

Charity, TOm
 
Why does only the Church have control of Sacraments? I’ve never understood where that comes from.
 
Again, no. I’ve refuted you and all Mormons on this. Mormonism is blasphemy against God.
 
Some Mormons pray to their Mother in Heaven and anyone who denies it is a bald faced liar.
 
I’ve had Mormons say they only pray to the Heavenly Father? Mormons make their beliefs so confusing sometimes…
 
I think most only pray to the Father but some pray also to Heavenly Mother and some to Jesus. I’ve even heard a prayer to Joseph Smith. 😎
 
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