Are Mormons Christians

[nmgauss]

And these groups may or may not be Christian

Indeed, transcendence has increasingly been the goal of Muslims in the past several centuries. Thus praying in a prostrated position while facing Mecca five times a day promotes the emotional aspects of Islam. Performing certain Sufi rituals also enhances the feelings of transcendence.

This is opposed to immanence where God is believed to be immersed in everything surrounding us.

In everyday language, “transcendence” means “going beyond”, and “self-transcendence” means going beyond a prior form or state of oneself. Mystical experience is thought of as a particularly advanced state of self-transcendence, in which the sense of a separate self is abandoned.

 

[Porknpie]

For one, they aren’t allowed to go to the temple.

Going to the temple is a biggie for mormons. They feel they are doing god’s work by baptizing the dead, etc.

They also do the marriage sealings, so the man can call forth his wife/wifes from the grave.

It also plays a big part in getting to the celestial kingdom where they get to become gods

All mormons have to go through a tithing settlement each year with their bishop, and have to explain why they aren’t giving 10% of their income.

Just a few little tidbits.

Ok, let’s say I am a single Mormon who does not pay a tithe and I want to get married. What happens then in regard to getting married in the temple?

 

[Miriam1947]

My local Catholic parish prints the money received each week into the bulletin and also prints a yearly accounting of all income and expenses.

Why doesn’t the Mormon church do the same for its members? There is no accounting for the money.

 

[gazelam]

Two, what happens to a Mormon if they don’t tithe 10%?

PnP

The standard stuff that happens to everybody… The windows of Heaven aren’t opened, you don’t get so many blessings that you can’t use them all, the devourer is not rebuked, the nations don’t call you blessed, etc.

Malachi 3:10-12 (KJV)

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Stephen168]

Did Jesus exist during the time of Moses? Satan is mentioned in the Torah. Is this the same Satan that Jesus was supposed to have created?

How does your denomination answer those questions?

 

[Stephen168]

Indeed, transcendence has increasingly been the goal of Muslims in the past several centuries. Thus praying in a prostrated position while facing Mecca five times a day promotes the emotional aspects of Islam. Performing certain Sufi rituals also enhances the feelings of transcendence.

This is opposed to immanence where God is believed to be immersed in everything surrounding us.

In everyday language, “transcendence” means “going beyond”, and “self-transcendence” means going beyond a prior form or state of oneself. Mystical experience is thought of as a particularly advanced state of self-transcendence, in which the sense of a separate self is abandoned.

And Protestants and Mormons make up stuff too

 

[twopekinguys]

Ok, let’s say I am a single Mormon who does not pay a tithe and I want to get married. What happens then in regard to getting married in the temple?

As gazelam pointed out, the windows to heaven are closed to you.

So, it would appear that people that struggle to put food on their table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their head may not get into the celestial kingdom.

I have read statements where mormon bishops have told members they need to keep paying their tithe in those cases.

I’ve read statements where people receiving from the bishop’s storehouse/warehouse (mormon equivilent of a food pantry) have to pay for what they receive.

 

[iepuras]

Ok, let’s say I am a single Mormon who does not pay a tithe and I want to get married. What happens then in regard to getting married in the temple?

To answer your question directly, no, she does not get to be married in the temple. She will need to pay up and start paying tithing.

It would depend on her bishop how long she will need to pay tithing or if she needs to pay any back tithing before he gives her a temple recommend.

Of course, she can only have a temple wedding if she marries an LDS man who also tithes and has a temple recommend. If she does not have that temple wedding, other Mormons will wonder why. The speculation usually comes down to the couple being “unworthy” due to sexual sin whether it is true or not. If they have a typical non-temple LDS wedding performed by the bishop, they will be reminded that they are not getting married in the ideal place and that they need to work on going to the temple to be sealed. How’s that for a happy, joyous wedding?

 

[iepuras]

As gazelam pointed out, the windows to heaven are closed to you.

So, it would appear that people that struggle to put food on their table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their head may not get into the celestial kingdom.

I have read statements where mormon bishops have told members they need to keep paying their tithe in those cases.

I’ve read statements where people receiving from the bishop’s storehouse/warehouse (mormon equivilent of a food pantry) have to pay for what they receive.

Yep. The poor only get into the CK if they pay their tithing before feeding their children.

Mormonism is a form of prosperity gospel in that temporal blessings are a sign of righteousness and Heavenly Father’s favor. This theme is repeated constantly in the narrative of the Book of Mormon, usually referred to by LDS as the 'cycle of apostasy '. The Nephites are righteous, they are blessed with riches. They become prideful and wicked. They are then punished with destruction at the hands of the Lamanites. The Nephites then repent and are righteous again. They are blessed with riches and the cycles continues.

 

[nmgauss]

And Protestants and Mormons make up stuff too

Exegesis and hermeneutics are practiced in reading Scripture. Here are some principles followed by Catholics:
Historico-grammatical interpretation - The meaning of the literary expression of the Bible is best learned by a thorough knowledge of the languages in which the original text of Scripture was written, and by acquaintance with the Scriptural way of speaking, including the various customs, laws, habits and national prejudices which influenced the inspired writers as they composed their respective books. John Paul II said that: "A second conclusion is that the very nature of biblical texts means that interpreting them will require continued use of the historical-critical method, at least in its principal procedures. The Bible, in effect, does not present itself as a direct revelation of timeless truths but as the written testimony to a series of interventions in which God reveals himself in human history. In a way that differs from tenets of other religions [such as Islam, for instance], the message of the Bible is solidly grounded in history.[6]
Catholic interpretation - Because the Catholic Church is, according to Catholics, the official custodian and interpreter of the Bible, Catholicism’s teaching concerning the Sacred Scriptures and their genuine sense must be the supreme guide of the commentator. The Catholic commentator is bound to adhere to the interpretation of texts which the Church has defined either expressly or implicitly.
Inerrancy - Since God is the principal Author of Sacred Scripture, it can be claimed to contain no error, no self-contradiction, nothing contrary to scientific or historical truth (when the original authors intended historical or scientific truth to be portrayed). Minor contradictions are due to copyist errors in the codex or the translation. Catholics believe the Scripture is God’s message put in words by men, with the imperfections this very fact necessarily implies. Catholic hermeneutics strongly supports inerrancy when it comes to principles but not, for example, when dealing with Evangelists’ orthographic mistakes. According to Pope John Paul II, "Addressing men and women, from the beginnings of the Old Testament onward, God made use of all the possibilities of human language, while at the same time accepting that his word be subject to the constraints caused by the limitations of this language. Proper respect for inspired Scripture requires undertaking all the labors necessary to gain a thorough grasp of its meaning.[6]
Patristics - The Holy Fathers are of supreme authority whenever they all interpret in one and the same manner any text of the Bible, as pertaining to the doctrine of faith or morals; for their unanimity clearly evinces that such interpretation has come down from the Apostles as a matter of Catholic faith.

 

[PJM]

=StephenL;11248209]Are Mormons Christians? If not then why do they believe in Christ?

No

Because they DON"T believe is the SAME CHRIST we Catholics and Christians do.

They teach that god the father has sexul intercouse and had two sons: Christ and Satan

It a SAD but highly SIGNIFIANT difference.

God Bless you and THANKS for asking,

Patrick

 

[nmgauss]

This makes it all the more disgusting that they will not pay to send a sick man home, a man who served 5 missions for the so called church. Leaving his family to beg others for the money to get him home after all that he’s done for the organization (more than likely at his own expense to boot) is despicable.

I suppose the philosophy is that people should not be a burden to the church while doing the church’s work. If his family is not poor, then they don’t qualify for aid to the poor.

http://www.mormonmissionprep.com/preparing-for-a-mission/lds-mission-cost/

Start Saving Early

Young people in the church are encouraged to save money throughout their childhood and teenage years to pay for as much of their mission as they can. Parents, family, and friends may also contribute financially to pay for a missionary’s expenses. Missionaries who cannot save the required funds may also obtain assistance from their home ward or stake, though personal and family sources of funds should be exhausted first. In some cases it may be better to delay a mission for a time and earn more money to pay for your mission rather than to rely heavily on others to fund your mission. The Lord expects that sacrifices, of both time and money, will need to be made in order to serve a mission. You, or anyone who makes such sacrifices, will be richly blessed by the Lord for doing so.

 

[Porknpie]

To answer your question directly, no, she does not get to be married in the temple. She will need to pay up and start paying tithing.

It would depend on her bishop how long she will need to pay tithing or if she needs to pay any back tithing before he gives her a temple recommend.

Of course, she can only have a temple wedding if she marries an LDS man who also tithes and has a temple recommend. If she does not have that temple wedding, other Mormons will wonder why. The speculation usually comes down to the couple being “unworthy” due to sexual sin whether it is true or not. If they have a typical non-temple LDS wedding performed by the bishop, they will be reminded that they are not getting married in the ideal place and that they need to work on going to the temple to be sealed. How’s that for a happy, joyous wedding?

OK so let me summarize to make sure I am understanding:

• Both the male and female have to tithe, assuming that they both work in order to get married in the temple
• If one or both of them were not tithing prior to getting married, they can not get married in the temple. (where then are they allowed to get married if not in the temple?)
• They can get married outside of the temple, but they are not sealed for eternity?
• If the latter is true, what are the implications for not being sealed for eternity?
• If they get married outside of the temple, to get admittance to the temple, they may have to pay back taxes?

Quite interesting. Am I understanding this correctly?

PnP

 

[gazelam]

As gazelam pointed out, the windows to heaven are closed to you.

So, it would appear that people that struggle to put food on their table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their head may not get into the celestial kingdom.

Au contraire… Paying an honest tithe is an act of faith. You seem to be overlooking miracles and divine guidance available to the faithful.

1 Kings 8-16 (KJV)

8 And the word of the Lord came unto him [Elijah], saying,

9 Arise, get thee to Zarephath, which belongeth to Zidon, and dwell there: behold, I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee.

10 So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, the widow woman was there gathering of sticks: and he called to her, and said, Fetch me, I pray thee, a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.

11 And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand.

12 And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

13 And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.

14 For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.

16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Elijah.

And, of course, when Joseph was in Egypt, Pharaoh had the dream about the 7 years of plenty followed by the 7 years of famine and they were able to prepare accordingly.

I have read statements where mormon bishops have told members they need to keep paying their tithe in those cases.

I’ve read statements where people receiving from the bishop’s storehouse/warehouse (mormon equivilent of a food pantry) have to pay for what they receive.

LDS who fall on hard times are counseled to pay an honest tithing. There is also financial and food assistance available for them. Those receiving assistance are expected to give some sort of labor in return for the assistance to the best of their ability.

 

[iepuras]

OK so let me summarize to make sure I am understanding:

• Both the male and female have to tithe, assuming that they both work in order to get married in the temple Correct
• If one or both of them were not tithing prior to getting married, they can not get married in the temple. (where then are they allowed to get married if not in the temple?) Correct. They can get married anywhere. Most often couples in this situation marry in their LDS chapel at no cost.
• They can get married outside of the temple, but they are not sealed for eternity? Correct
• If the latter is true, what are the implications for not being sealed for eternity? They can still make it to celestial kingdom, but they will not achieve the highest level in the celestial kingdom. Without being sealed, they will not be married after death, so they will not achieve the highest level (also known as exaltation). So no marital relations after death and no future spirit children of their own. They essentially become angels. Any children born into their family are also not sealed to them. Their family bond will not extend after death.
• If they get married outside of the temple, to get admittance to the temple, they may have to pay back taxes? If they get married outside the temple, they have to wait a minimum of one year before being sealed in the temple. The payment of back tithing really depends on the bishop. In most situations, the couple will need to simply start paying tithing and continue doing so for a period of time before they are given a temple recommend. There are situations where a bishop has required the payment of back tithing, but that is more common when the person already has a temple recommend and stopped paying.

Quite interesting. Am I understanding this correctly?

PnP

You are understanding it correctly. I have been to several LDS non-temple weddings and the bishop usually laid on the guilt for not marrying in the temple during the ceremony. A non-temple wedding is generally not looked at as quite as joyous occasion like a temple wedding.

 

[twopekinguys]

Au contraire… Paying an honest tithe is an act of faith. You seem to be overlooking miracles and divine guidance available to the faithful.

Perhaps you should go back and look at what you said in an earlier post.

The standard stuff that happens to everybody… The windows of Heaven aren’t opened, you don’t get so many blessings that you can’t use them all, the devourer is not rebuked, the nations don’t call you blessed, etc.

The answer you gave was in direct response to a question about what happens if a tithe isn’t paid. So, as you can see, your “au contraire” comment isn’t really appropriate.

BTW, you say in order to receive assistance from the warehouse/storehouse, that some sort of labor is required. Don’t you think that sounds like paying for it? Would you rather look at it like a form of indentured servitude?

Either way, it really isn’t a charitable form of giving is it? There is a price tag attached to it.

mormons don’t give anything to anyone unless there is a string attached to it, and you’ve proven that.

 

[Stephen168]

Did Jesus exist during the time of Moses? Satan is mentioned in the Torah. Is this the same Satan that Jesus was supposed to have created?

How does your denomination answer those questions?

 

[kimg901]

Perhaps you should go back and look at what you said in an earlier post.

The answer you gave was in direct response to a question about what happens if a tithe isn’t paid. So, as you can see, your “au contraire” comment isn’t really appropriate.

BTW, you say in order to receive assistance from the warehouse/storehouse, that some sort of labor is required. Don’t you think that sounds like paying for it? Would you rather look at it like a form of indentured servitude?

Either way, it really isn’t a charitable form of giving is it? There is a price tag attached to it.

mormons don’t give anything to anyone unless there is a string attached to it, and you’ve proven that.

I remember posting that a friend of mine (lds) needed food and was required to work it off. So where is the charity in that? Satan sure is working hard here in Utah.

 

[zaffiroborant]

LDS who fall on hard times are counseled to pay an honest tithing. There is also financial and food assistance available for them. Those receiving assistance are expected to give some sort of labor in return for the assistance to the best of their ability.

Which is why I disagree that LDS give more to charity than members of other religions since much of what they “give” is traded for services. That’s not charity it’s payment for services rendered. It’s a far cry from the command to feed the hungry.

 

[nmgauss]

Which is why I disagree that LDS give more to charity than members of other religions since much of what they “give” is traded for services. That’s not charity it’s payment for services rendered. It’s a far cry from the command to feed the hungry.

What if the recipient is a Catholic?