T
twopekinguys
Guest
This is true.
I guess if you look at the “preexistence”, where satan and Jesus are “brothers”, that in and of itself should show it isn’t the same one.
- Status
I guess if you look at the “preexistence”, where satan and Jesus are “brothers”, that in and of itself should show it isn’t the same one.
M
mtolympus
Guest
**I don’t consider the terms “Mormon” and “Christian” as being mutually exclusive and therefore I accept all of the statements you listed above.
Here are some more teachings. I would like know if you would place these under “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”? I hope you will answer this one. Thanks.**- “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18) - “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
- “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)
- “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
T
TexanKnight
Guest
being able to say you believe SOME of the Bible does not make you “Christian”. Even Satan believes some of the Bible…does that make Satan a Christian?
The beliefs that God was once a sinful man and Jesus is Satan’s brother is enough to show you do not believe in the Biblical Christ…
M
mtolympus
Guest
**You are right believing the Bible does not make me a Christian. Striving to obey Christ makes me a Christian. Satan believes in Christ…does that make Satan a Christian?
So are these scriptures from the Bible “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”?**
- “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18) - “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
- “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)
T
TexanKnight
Guest
M
mtolympus
Guest
So… are these scriptures from the Bible “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”?
- “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18) - “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
- “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)
E
eddie_too
Guest
how many good works or how righteously must a mormon live to be saved?
can a mormon tell a “white lie” and still be saved? how many times?
what makes a mormon righeous? does a mormon need to follow the law perfectly to be saved?
i am really curious about what mormons teach about the degree of righteousness they must live to be saved.
can a mormon tell a “white lie” and still be saved? how many times?
what makes a mormon righeous? does a mormon need to follow the law perfectly to be saved?
i am really curious about what mormons teach about the degree of righteousness they must live to be saved.
T
TexanKnight
Guest
Again, even Satan can quote the Bible…under your definition, Satan is a Christian
of course, that is understandable since you believe he and Jesus are siblings
M
mtolympus
Guest
Greetings eddie too,
We do not believe we are saved by our faith or by our works. It is only in and through the grace of God that we are saved. This scripture is found in our Book of Mormon:
“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile
yourselves to the will of God, and not to the
will of the devil and the flesh; and remember,
after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only
in and through the grace of God that ye are
saved.” (2 Nephi 10:24)
The atonement of Jesus Christ paid the demands of justice so that we can be recipients of God’s mercy. Without this mercy extended to us through Christ’s infinite sacrifice, it would not be possible for us to rise from our sinful condition, worthy to enter the presence of the Father. Jesus paid for our sins and became the author of eternal salvation to those who obey him (Heb. 5:9) and the mediator of the covenant between God and man. (Heb. 8:6) He is our advocate with the Father:
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2)
We enter our covenant with Christ when we are baptized:
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” (Gal. 3:26-27)
Baptism is for the remission of our sins. (Acts 2:38) As we live steadfastly in our covenant, through our faith in Jesus Christ and repentance for our sins as necessary, we remain under his grace. This grace is received not because of our own works of righteousness, but by God’s mercy. (Titus 3:8) “It is the gift of God.” (Eph. 2:8)
E
eddie_too
Guest
mtolypmus,
since we are not saved through either faith or works, why does it matter what we believe or do?
since we are not saved through either faith or works, why does it matter what we believe or do?
I
iepuras
Guest
Keep reading in 2 Nephi to chapter 25 verse 23. “For we labor diligently to write, to and persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
This verse makes it sound like works are also vital. So do we only merit grace after we do everything that we can to be righteous? During my 35 years in the LDS church, I hardly heard grace spoken of in sacrament meeting, primary, young women, Sunday school, relief society, early morning seminary, BYU religion classes, general conference or the temple. I didn’t learn anything about the grace of God until I started participating in RCIA. I have carried loads and loads of Mormon guilt my whole life because I could never do everything necessary for salvation. I am working on getting rid of the Mormon guilt through the grace of God. It’s a tough road.
I can give you the “Sunday School” answers.
- Go to church every Sunday.
- Read scriptures daily. The Book of Mormon needs to be read daily. Any reading of the Bible needs to be in addition to reading the BOM, or you can just skip the Bible all together.
- Pray daily, at least morning and evening, in personal prayer. Have family prayer daily. Have couple prayer with your spouse daily.
- Hold Family Home Evening every Monday. It doesn’t really count if you do it another day like Sunday.
- Serve diligently in your callings even if it takes too much time away from your family. Never turn down a calling and never ask to be released.
- Pay tithing (10% on gross income including gifts and inheritances) even if you have to choose between paying tithing and purchasing food for your children.
- Attend the temple at least once a month.
- Do visiting teaching and home teaching each month.
- Provide service to those in need. However, one can only do this through the LDS church. One cannot give Christlike service outside the LDS church (this is what my stake president told me when he showed up at my doorstep unannounced after we stopped attending for about 6 weeks).
- Be married in the temple for time and all eternity. A marriage just isn’t good enough if it is not in the temple and you are doing your children a huge disservice if you are not sealed in the temple.
- Do family history work and make sure you take family names to the temple to do their proxy ordinance work.
- Don’t drink coffee, tea or alcoholic beverages. Actually, you really shouldn’t drink Coke either because it just looks bad drinking anything with caffeine in it.
- Teach your children to be good Mormon children. If they leave the LDS church, this means you did something wrong as a parent.
- Serve a full-time mission. If one doesn’t, the chances of scoring a “worthy” LDS spouse to marry in the temple decreases substantially. Also remember that after you retire, you need to serve at least one mission as a senior missionary couple.
- Believe that the BOM is historically true and that archeologists just haven’t found evidence of horses, chariots or steel swords yet.
- Believe that Joseph Smith was a really great guy even though he had a thing for teenage girls and ‘married’ multiple women behind his legal wife’s back.
- Do whatever your bishop or stake president tells you to do because they are the Lord’s annointed and have the power of discernment. Even if they are exerting power over you just because they can, you have very little recourse.
- Help clean the chapel periodically because the LDS church doesn’t have enough money to hire janitors even after you pay 10% tithing.
- Believe that God was once a sinful man on another planet and that he didn’t actually create the universe. He simply organized matter that just happened to already be there.
- Believe in an infinite regression of generations of Gods until your head explodes.
P
PaulDupre1
Guest
Yep, the mormons are just so many hamsters on so many little hamster-wheels. Running and running but getting nowhere. Better to cast my sins and cares upon Jesus and lean my head upon his breast as St. John did. Let Him gently lead me to grace and holiness. I can’t do it myself. He loved me while I was still a sinner. He loved me while I was still a Mormon (and still a sinner), and brought me out of bondage into the freedom that is life in Him.
Mormons can’t understand how liberating it is to finally realize that Jesus wants me to be me, not some carbon copy of everyone else. He teaches me to be the best “me” I can be (though of course I can’t really do it - but then He knows that, too). But the closer I get, the more wonderfully human I become.
That’s the big difference (I think) between Mormonism and Christianity. Mormons think they are “gods in embryo” and so are under tremendous pressure to be perfect and god-like (as opposed to “Godly”) and to ascend to godhood. But Jesus became a human to show us what we are really supposed to be - the wonderful humans He created us to be - the humans that Adam and Eve should have been, but couldn’t be without the indwellling of the Holy Spirit. When my goal is to be the human creature that Jesus created me to be - not an equal of God, but an adopted member of the divine family by grace through faith - then it all makes sense.
There’s nothing like standing in line for confession, and catching the eye of someone else in the line. There’s this thing that happens when two people look at one another and without a word say “yeah, I’m broken, too”.
Of course we are to turn from sin, because we love Him who is without sin, but holiness is the result of grace through faith, not the source of it as the LDS and their Book of Mormon would have us believe.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Mormons can’t understand how liberating it is to finally realize that Jesus wants me to be me, not some carbon copy of everyone else. He teaches me to be the best “me” I can be (though of course I can’t really do it - but then He knows that, too). But the closer I get, the more wonderfully human I become.
That’s the big difference (I think) between Mormonism and Christianity. Mormons think they are “gods in embryo” and so are under tremendous pressure to be perfect and god-like (as opposed to “Godly”) and to ascend to godhood. But Jesus became a human to show us what we are really supposed to be - the wonderful humans He created us to be - the humans that Adam and Eve should have been, but couldn’t be without the indwellling of the Holy Spirit. When my goal is to be the human creature that Jesus created me to be - not an equal of God, but an adopted member of the divine family by grace through faith - then it all makes sense.
There’s nothing like standing in line for confession, and catching the eye of someone else in the line. There’s this thing that happens when two people look at one another and without a word say “yeah, I’m broken, too”.
Of course we are to turn from sin, because we love Him who is without sin, but holiness is the result of grace through faith, not the source of it as the LDS and their Book of Mormon would have us believe.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
I
iepuras
Guest
Amen!
T
taylorf
Guest
This covers just about everything. If you can check off each one of these then you’ve earned your ticket to heaven - in the form of a temple recommend.
One of the many things I detested was testimony meeting at which some members believed they could somehow retroactively lessen the suffering of Christ in the garden by living the LDS gospel (somehow passing the temple recommend interview makes one holy and perfect). Or those that would cry forever saying the each time they told a lie or drank a caffeinated beverage, they were somehow making Christ sweat more drops of blood.
I
iepuras
Guest
Oh my, I forgot number 21.
- Fast every fast Sunday and be sure to bear your testimony about the truthfulness of the LDS church, that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and Thomas S. Monson (you must not forget the S) is a prophet today and that the Book of Mormon is true. The more you cry, the stronger your testimony is. There is no need to mention Jesus or the Bible.
L
LivingWaters7
Guest
Testimony meeting was mixed for me. There were always a few testimonies that seemed to be more soap boxes, or mini lessons. But there were also people that shared their testimonies from their hearts, and I appreciate that, perhaps especially because it was a YSA ward, and it was nice hearing other young people talk and testify about their religious convictions so strongly (when it seems more “cool” to do whatever you want, and not be at church). Sometimes the bishopric would email someone and ask them to share their testimony if they hadn’t done so in awhile (so I was told by friends that received said emails).
The crying was always…odd to me. Never have I seen so many men cry! It was also interesting when talks would end up short, so the bishopric would call someone out to share their testimony. Cue the horrified look
.
T
taylorf
Guest
This.
The handful of times I’ve attended Mass, not everybody gets up for communion. Why? Who knows? The best part is…it doesn’t seem to bother anyone and there is no feeling of judgment.
On the other hand, try passing the sacrament tray without taking bread and water at sacrament meeting and just notice how awkward it gets, especially when family is sitting with you. LDS watch each other and notice when someone is “out of line.”
T
twopekinguys
Guest
As usual, very well said.
The part i liked the most was:
*
"There’s nothing like standing in line for confession, and catching the eye of someone else in the line. There’s this thing that happens when two people look at one another and without a word say “yeah, I’m broken, too”.*
We as Catholics freely admit we are sinners and do our best to work out our salvation each and every day. We fall short, but, we get up and do it again and again.
I think that is just one more thing that sets us apart from most of Christianity, and mormonism.
L
LivingWaters7
Guest
Or when you ask someone to bless or pass the sacrament and they decline. By virtue of the lay priesthood and how the LDS faith is set up, people tend to notice or be aware of the worthiness status of other people. If a couple is getting married and they end up not having a temple wedding, people start wondering why not (are they not worthy, is it because of the non-member parents, etc). My favorite was trying to find endowed brethren to help in the ward temple baptisms trips. That was horrible. It was always difficult finding who was able to go (sometimes they couldn’t because of work, but this happened every single time). It ended up being me, members of the bishopric, and maybe a friend from another ward. Interestingly, someone texted me like 2 weeks ago asking if I could help with the ward temple baptisms trip!
I just told her I had work (which I did), didn’t feel the need to share that I’m Catholic now. The sisters start wondering about the worthiness of the brethren, as it’s sometimes an issue finding people to help with the sacrament (the missionaries ended up helping out most Sundays, even though there were a good number of priesthood holders present), or to perform the ordinances for ward temple trips. As Elders Quorum President, I also was given a list of who had a current recommend, and when it was expiring, so that I knew who to contact for the trips. So glad I don’t have to scramble with that anymore!
I
iepuras
Guest
It was always so difficult to find men to do priesthood related things in a YSA ward. I hear you on that! Yea, even though we did talk about not judging others, there is lots of judging going on. Does he pass the sacrament? Did he serve a mission? Is he temple worthy? Etc. My favorite are the garment feel ups to check if someone is wearing their garments.Or when you ask someone to bless or pass the sacrament and they decline. By virtue of the lay priesthood and how the LDS faith is set up, people tend to notice or be aware of the worthiness status of other people. If a couple is getting married and they end up not having a temple wedding, people start wondering why not (are they not worthy, is it because of the non-member parents, etc). My favorite was trying to find endowed brethren to help in the ward temple baptisms trips. That was horrible. It was always difficult finding who was able to go (sometimes they couldn’t because of work, but this happened every single time). It ended up being me, members of the bishopric, and maybe a friend from another ward. Interestingly, someone texted me like 2 weeks ago asking if I could help with the ward temple baptisms trip!
- Status