Are Mormons Christians

[iepuras]

Testimony meeting was mixed for me. There were always a few testimonies that seemed to be more soap boxes, or mini lessons. But there were also people that shared their testimonies from their hearts, and I appreciate that, perhaps especially because it was a YSA ward, and it was nice hearing other young people talk and testify about their religious convictions so strongly (when it seems more “cool” to do whatever you want, and not be at church). Sometimes the bishopric would email someone and ask them to share their testimony if they hadn’t done so in awhile (so I was told by friends that received said emails).

The crying was always…odd to me. Never have I seen so many men cry! It was also interesting when talks would end up short, so the bishopric would call someone out to share their testimony. Cue the horrified look .

LOL! Yes, I am so glad that I never was randomly called up. I guess the Holy Ghost didn’t think too highly of me! If someone got up who normally does not go up to bear testimony, I would actually listen because that means they probably have something important to say. I tuned out the regulars because they say the same stuff every month. They just like hearing themselves talk.

 

[LivingWaters7]

It was always so difficult to find men to do priesthood related things in a YSA ward. I hear you on that! Yea, even though we did talk about not judging others, there is lots of judging going on. Does he pass the sacrament? Did he serve a mission? Is he temple worthy? Etc. My favorite are the garment feel ups to check if someone is wearing their garments.

Oh yes, I know about that. For garments, I think the less brazen look to see the outline of the top under the white shirt. For guys, we’d note the type of outfit the sister was wearing and whether it was able to cover garments .

I tell you, as much as I disagree with the LDS faith theologically, it was definitely an experience (I didn’t have any negative personal experiences really). A friend of mine that’s inactive/pretty much out texted me yesterday asking if I could help him move on the weekend. I told him I wasn’t able to, and said “did you ask your home teachers? wait…LOL!”. We had a good laugh.

 

[mtolympus]

mtolypmus,

since we are not saved through either faith or works, why does it matter what we believe or do?

Our faith and works are important and necessary but they do not save us, only the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for us can save us. Everyone knows what Paul said about works in Ephesians 2:8-9. He told us we should not boast about our works because salvation is from God, not from ourselves. Some have misinterpreted this to means we are saved only by our faith, but this also is not true. If Christ had not died for the sins of the world our faith would be of no benefit:

“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain: ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Cor. 15:17)

James taught us that salvation does not come to us by faith alone:

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)

 

[mtolympus]

Again, even Satan can quote the Bible…under your definition, Satan is a Christian

Quoting the Bible dosn’t make anyone a Christian. Likewise, believing in Jesus does not make any one a Christian, for “the devils also believe and tremble.” (James 2:19) Keeping the commandments of Jesus will make us a Christian and is the only way we can know Him.

But I would still like to know if these scriptures from the Bible would be considered to be “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”?

1. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
   Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
   But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18)
2. “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
3. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)

 

[mtolympus]

Keep reading in 2 Nephi to chapter 25 verse 23. “For we labor diligently to write, to and persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

I hear you. The “after all you can do” part isn’t easy. However, grace is always there when we are ready to do what we can do.

 

[TexanKnight]

It was always so difficult to find men to do priesthood related things in a YSA ward. I hear you on that! Yea, even though we did talk about not judging others, there is lots of judging going on. Does he pass the sacrament? Did he serve a mission? Is he temple worthy? Etc. My favorite are the garment feel ups to check if someone is wearing their garments.

lol…yep…some girls would do that before agreeing to a date…lol

 

[TexanKnight]

Quoting the Bible dosn’t make anyone a Christian. Likewise, believing in Jesus does not make any one a Christian, for “the devils also believe and tremble.” (James 2:19) Keeping the commandments of Jesus will make us a Christian and is the only way we can know Him.

But I would still like to know if these scriptures from the Bible would be considered to be “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”?

1. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
   Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
   But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18)
2. “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
3. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)

I will not play your game because it is a red herring.

You can’t get away from the fact that js invented a doppleganger Jesus and God. You simply can’t Bible-quote that away

 

[Porknpie]

Greetings eddie too,

We do not believe we are saved by our faith or by our works. It is only in and through the grace of God that we are saved. This scripture is found in our Book of Mormon:

“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile
yourselves to the will of God, and not to the
will of the devil and the flesh; and remember,
after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only
in and through the grace of God that ye are
saved.” (2 Nephi 10:24) )

Catholics believe we are saved by Grace, through Faith, working in love. All very biblical. Joseph Smith was simply parroting the bible in creating the words above.

Which God is Joseph Smith referring to here at this point?

Which God are you referring to?

Do his words change in time from communicating a belief in the Trinity to a belief in one God among many?

PnP

 

[debbie_h]

This.

The handful of times I’ve attended Mass, not everybody gets up for communion. Why? Who knows? The best part is…it doesn’t seem to bother anyone and there is no feeling of judgment.

On the other hand, try passing the sacrament tray without taking bread and water at sacrament meeting and just notice how awkward it gets, especially when family is sitting with you. LDS watch each other and notice when someone is “out of line.”

Ahh yes, my Dad was part of the bishopric sitting up in front with the bishop, there were many times when my dad would (mistakenly) miss me taking the sacrament & at home after the sacrament meeting my parents would corner me & ask why I haven’t done so

 

[iepuras]

Oh yes, I know about that. For garments, I think the less brazen look to see the outline of the top under the white shirt. For guys, we’d note the type of outfit the sister was wearing and whether it was able to cover garments .

I tell you, as much as I disagree with the LDS faith theologically, it was definitely an experience (I didn’t have any negative personal experiences really). A friend of mine that’s inactive/pretty much out texted me yesterday asking if I could help him move on the weekend. I told him I wasn’t able to, and said “did you ask your home teachers? wait…LOL!”. We had a good laugh.

I cannot understand how women wear their garments with certain types of clothing but they do. I think they must use 2-sided tape or something because their clothes barely cover their garments but the garments magically do not slip. I also never understood how a woman could dress “modestly” by having her clothes cover her garments but be so tight that you can easily see the pattern of the nasty lace border of the garment under her clothing. I always thought it was funny when some of the men in my YSA ward would talk about how important modesty was to them and appreciate it when women are endowed, etc and then they pay attention to all the unendowed women who wear sleeveless tops and shorter skirts.

I am so glad you had an overall good experience in the LDS church. I never had anything too bad happen to me. The main thing was that I didn’t fit in. On the other hand, I know people who were treated horribly. I was lucky that I was never asked certain ridiculous and inappropriate questions and lied to the bishop when necessary.

 

[iepuras]

lol…yep…some girls would do that before agreeing to a date…lol

I never needed to do that because Mormon boys never asked me out on a date!

 

[TexanKnight]

I never needed to do that because Mormon boys never asked me out on a date!

it was funny. Girls would “accidentally” touch my thigh to see if they could feel garments. If they could, they would go out with me. Not that I asked many…but it was still funny

 

[iepuras]

I hear you. The “after all you can do” part isn’t easy. However, grace is always there when we are ready to do what we can do.

**We do not believe we are saved by our faith or by our works. It is only in and through the grace of God that we are saved./**B] This scripture is found in our Book of Mormon:

“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile
yourselves to the will of God, and not to the
will of the devil and the flesh; and remember,
after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only
in and through the grace of God that ye are
saved.” (2 Nephi 10:24)

Are we saved by grace only, as you stated above bolded in red (not by faith or works)? Or do we have to do something to actually merit that grace first, as stated in the 2 Nephi verse above bolded in blue and in 2 Nephi 25:23 (below)?

“For we labor diligently to write, to and persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

As Porknpie stated, we believe was are “saved by Grace, through Faith, working in love.”

 

[Stephen168]

I don’t consider the terms “Mormon” and “Christian” as being mutually exclusive…

They are mutually exclusive in regards to who God is. Religion is define by who they believe God is. Mormons believe God is something different from Christians, therefore Mormons are not Christian.

Keeping the commandments of Jesus will make us a Christian and is the only way we can know Him.

First you have to know who Jesus is. Mormons believe Jesus is different than the Christian Jesus, therefore Mormons are not Christians.

 

[TexanKnight]

They are mutually exclusive in regards to who God is. Religion is define by who they believe God is. Mormons believe God is something different from Christians, therefore Mormons are not Christian.

First you have to know who Jesus is. Mormons believe Jesus is different than the Christian Jesus, therefore Mormons are not Christians.

exactly what I have been saying…

 

[mtolympus]

Are we saved by grace only, as you stated above bolded in red (not by faith or works)? Or do we have to do something to actually merit that grace first, as stated in the 2 Nephi verse above bolded in blue and in 2 Nephi 25:23 (below)?

“For we labor diligently to write, to and persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Our faith and works are important and necessary but they do not save us, only the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for us can save us. Paul told us we should not boast about our works because salvation is from God, not from ourselves. (Eph. 2:8-9) Some misinterpret this to mean we are saved only by our faith, but this is not true:

“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain: ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Cor. 15:17)

James taught us that salvation does not come to us by faith alone:

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)

We enter a covenant with Christ when we are baptized:

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” (Gal. 3:26-27)

Jesus paid for our sins and became the author of eternal salvation to those who obey him (Heb. 5:9) Jesus is the mediator of the covenant between God and man. (Heb. 8:6) Jesus is our advocate with the Father. (1 John 2:1-2)

When we are baptised we promise that we are willing to obey the commandments of Christ. Baptism is for the remission of our sins. (Acts 2:38) As we live steadfastly in our covenant, through our faith in Jesus Christ and repentance for our sins as necessary, we remain under his grace. This grace is received not because of our own works of righteousness, but by God’s mercy. (Titus 3:8) “It is the gift of God.” (Eph. 2:8)

 

[mtolympus]

They are mutually exclusive in regards to who God is. Religion is define by who they believe God is. Mormons believe God is something different from Christians, therefore Mormons are not Christian.

**Stephen,

Since you know what Christians believe about Jesus I am wondering if you could tell me if these scriptures from the Bible would be considered to be “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”? Sorry to repeat, but I am surprised that no one has been willing to answered this yet.**

1. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
   Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
   But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18)
2. “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
3. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)

 

[Cmc1972]

There are missing components to this discussion.

1. It is largely not up to us to decide what validates us to be judges of what is Christian and not Christian. That is left to God, Son, and Holy Spirit. Catholic doctrine will also provide answers.
2. The necene creed is very clear cut and what beliefs a Christian holds dear. If you do have issues with Chris , you might not be a Christian.
3. I know many self-proclaimed Christians who are not Christians through there actions.
4. Paraphrasing Paul, proclamation of faith is not enough to be a Christian, our actions will ultimately decide our true nature of being Christian or non-
   Christian.

 

[TexanKnight]

**Stephen,

Since you know what Christians believe about Jesus I am wondering if you could tell me if these scriptures from the Bible would be considered to be “Mormon Doctrine” or “Christian Doctrine”? Sorry to repeat, but I am surprised that no one has been willing to answered this yet.**

1. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
   Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
   But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness.” Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:14-18)
2. “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Heb. 5:8-9)
3. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21)

More red herrings.

The fact that you worship a man-made Jesus means that when YOU use Biblical verses, they do not mean the same thing when true Christians use them…you keep dodging that point…and understandably so

 

[Cmc1972]

More red herrings.

The fact that you worship a man-made Jesus means that when YOU use Biblical verses, they do not mean the same thing when true Christians use them…you keep dodging that point…and understandably so

That’s my point as well. Cherry picking bible quotes to fit your description of what is Christian does not make you a Christian.

There are two essential requirements that denote what your faith really is.

The nicene creed spells out The tenets of Christianity rather clearly. If you have issues with the creed, your most likely not Christian.

Are your actions representative of a Christian?

That’s it. Debating minutiae doesn’t really do any good,