Are Mormons Christians

[twopekinguys]

Did I just read that Jesus had a knee jerk reaction to the poor?

You read it here first.

 

[PRmerger]

No

Because they DON"T believe is the SAME CHRIST we Catholics and Christians do.

They teach that god the father has sexul intercouse and had two sons: Christ and Satan

It a SAD but highly SIGNIFIANT difference.

God Bless you and THANKS for asking,

Patrick

Friends, it is important that we remain charitable at all times, especially when in dialogue with those who do not yet understand the great treasure we have in the Catholic Church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not in those words exactly, but that can be found in Chapter 2 of the book of Daniel.

Mormons, always thinking OT prophesies are about themselves. Daniel two refers to the Kingdom of God being established by Jesus Christ. It has nothing, not one thing, zero, to do with Joseph Smith.

Luke 20:17-18

 

[batman1973]

Methinks the mormons on this board rethink their wanting to be called Christian. After all, this is what Mormon President John Taylor said about Christians:

“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best.” (JD 13:225)

further from President Taylor in the Journal of Discourses:

“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing…Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.”

Orson Pratt pulls no punches:

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon…” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, #6, pg. 84)

Brother Pratt goes on to say in his masterpiece The Seer:

“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness.” (pg 225)

And then there’s the award winning Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

“Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings.” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

 

[vsedriver]

However, if you invest in organizations or people that have no hope of thriving (e.g. Blockbuster Video Stores, horse carriage manufacturers,

a little side note here, the horse carriage manufacturers are doing quite well. The population is aging and as a result more horse owners are switching to driving. Add to that the rising popularity of combined driving and trail driving, carriages are evolving and business is booming. All small businesses but the market is doing well.

Very Small Equine Driver

 

[titletown15]

We Mormons are full-blown non-Trinitarian Christians.

Let’s just disabuse the notion that to be Christian one must believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.

Harper’s Bible Dictionary states: “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.”

Matthew 27 (KJV)

*51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.*

Clearly, not a single Trinitarian was to be found among these resurrected early Christian Saints.

Then why are Mormons baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Ghost (as required by Matthew 28:19)?

 

[JesseConley]

But the question arises of which Father, Son and Holy Spirit? We don’t believe in the same God, the LDS god lives on Kolob and has lots of wives that he received as reward for being a good mrmber of the faith. The LDS Jesus isn’t the same, he isn’t anything more than a trusted first Son who will be a god in the next world and the LDS Holy Spirit teaches doctrine like the ‘New and Everlasting Covenant’ of plural marriage which is only as everlasting as the next President chooses to recognize, at which time the Holy Spirit commands something else. How many Church doctrines are the same as the ones that Joseph Smith laid down? How can the LDS god be anything more than fickle if his eternal laws change so often? Catholics believe that everything was given and stands as is, the way Christ and the early church fathers practiced. The Catholic faith won’t say that God changed his mind like the LDS faith does. So how can we believe in the same God?

 

[titletown15]

Jesse Conley. All I was doing in my post was refuting a claim that Mormons reject the concept of the Trinity. It is a fact that they baptize using the names of the Christian Trinity. So he’s either a liar or fool.

 

[iepuras]

Mormons do, in fact, reject the doctrine of the Trinity, and they never shy away from that. Gazelam and the other Mormons who have participated in this thread have been very clear they do not believe in the Trinity.

Yes, they use words that appear to be Trinitarian on the surface to perform baptisms, but they are most certainly not Trinitarian. When Mormons speak of God the Father, they are speaking of something completely foreign to the Christian understanding of God the Father. The same is true of Mormon beliefs on Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Mormons and Christians speak a different language. We may use the same words but the meaning behind those words are completely different.

Also, I was baptized in the Mormon church at the age of 8. That baptism is not recognized by the Catholic Church as it was not a true Christian baptism. When I come into the Church at Easter Vigil, I will receive true Christian baptism.

 

[Miriam1947]

Then why are Mormons baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Ghost (as required by Matthew 28:19)?

The Mormon baptism is not recognized by the Catholic Church because they are not talking about the Trinity but about three separate gods. They are polytheists.

Mormon converts (who have never been baptized in other Christian churches) are re-baptized when they come into the Catholic Church.

 

[JesseConley]

Jesse Conley. All I was doing in my post was refuting a claim that Mormons reject the concept of the Trinity. It is a fact that they baptize using the names of the Christian Trinity. So he’s either a liar or fool.

Lol I wasnt knocking you, just adding to the argument against their claims.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Then why are Mormons baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Ghost (as required by Matthew 28:19)?

Although LDS use a “Trinitarian” formula for baptism, their understanding of who those Persons are, and their unity, is different from the orthodox Trinitarian doctrine.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Jesse Conley. All I was doing in my post was refuting a claim that Mormons reject the concept of the Trinity. It is a fact that they baptize using the names of the Christian Trinity. So he’s either a liar or fool.

Latter-day Saints reject the orthodox understanding of the Trinity.

Please see these for how various LDS leaders and members view the orthodox Trinity:

The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent

Comparing LDS Beliefs With First-Century Christianity

Is the LDS View of God Consistent with the Bible?

Encyclopedia of Mormonism-Godhead

 

[nmgauss]

I was LDS for 5 years and received my endowments, married in the temple and was the Elders Quorum instructor (by way of introduction). It gave me a very in depth look at the LDS Church and its dogma and I eould say that in my belief, the LDS Church is Christian on the surface only. There are far too many strange and un-Christian beliefs buried in the less Mainstream Church documents. But this discussion on Charity makes me laugh at both sides. It isn’t up to you to decide who needs your help or if giving will keep them from wanting to become better. If you truly believed in the judgement of God, you would just give and help as you could and trust that God will inspire them if they need it. It’s nowhere in the Bible where Jesus said “Test the poor and make sure they deserve your help.” Just give what you can and God will reward you with much more than you gave to the poor. What happens if you judge wrong and don’t help someone truly in need? Are you willing to risk that? I’m not.

If you give an alcoholic more alcohol, are you helping or hindering? If you give a heroin addict more heroin, the same question. If you give a starving person too much food, this can kill him/her. If a child who is allergic to peanuts is given peanuts, he/she can become very sick and even die. So, were these wise gifts? If there is knee-jerk giving, the results can backfire.

 

[Stephen168]

You can’t be a disciple of someone who you don’t know. Mormonism does not know who Jesus is: John 1:1, John 8:58 and Ex 3:14, John 10:30, Philippians 2:5-8, Ephesians 4:4-6, Colossians 1:15-17 and Genesis 1:1-31, Colossians 2:9, Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, 1 Peter 1:1-2 as interpreted by the Catholic Church because it has true apostolic succession since the time of Christ and they were the people at Antioch.
mtolympus;11413031:

How does the Catholic Church intreprete these scriptures?
“Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto those who obey him.” (Heb. 5:9) “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”(1 John 2:3)

I’m not sure which verses you are referring to; mine or yours.

Mine would be interpreted as God is one uncreated, divine being who created everything from nothing. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have always existed in the divine trinity. Christ requires baptism in the name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Your first quote is from the fifth chapter of Hebrews which tells of Christ being the High Priest offering gifts and scarifies to God for our sins and only God can designate someone to be the High Priest. Christ, the High Priest, is the source of eternal salvation. He was made a High Priest like Melchizadek. From Genesis 14:18-20 and Hebrews 7:1-3 we know Melchizadek was a priest without a mother or father, and had no beginning, nor end, but was a priest continually. From John 1:26 we know that Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. From Genesis 14:18-20 also learn that the sacrifice is bread and wine which Christ tells us in John 6:31-69 is Christ’s body and blood. Christ commands us to do this. Revelation 7:17 tells us the Lamb will feed us and wipe away our tears.

Your second quote is from the second chapter of John’s first letter which tells us that through Christ we can be cleansed of our sins. Therefore we should know who he is and keep his commandments.

The Bible tells us Christ has no beginning, and he and the Father are one; I AM. It also tells us he offers his body in bread and wine and commands us to do this. We are also commanded to know who he is and keep his commandments. Mormons do not know who Christ is or keep his commandment; his sacrifice.

 

[twopekinguys]

If you give an alcoholic more alcohol, are you helping or hindering? If you give a heroin addict more heroin, the same question. If you give a starving person too much food, this can kill him/her. If a child who is allergic to peanuts is given peanuts, he/she can become very sick and even die. So, were these wise gifts? If there is knee-jerk giving, the results can backfire.

Cold turkey alcohol withdrawal can be deadly, and so can heroin withdrawal cold turkey. What is your point?

I see you have ignored the Scripture that has been provided showing we should give and not judge.

Do you not believe in Scripture, or are you just trolling?

 

[nmgauss]

Cold turkey alcohol withdrawal can be deadly, and so can heroin withdrawal cold turkey. What is your point?

I see you have ignored the Scripture that has been provided showing we should give and not judge.

Do you not believe in Scripture, or are you just trolling?

Wise giving is better than knee-jerk giving. If you believe that the alcoholic is on the wagon, there is no harm in giving him water instead of alcohol. My father’s uncle was an alcoholic and his family refused to give him any alcoholic drink. My uncle died of cirrhosis of the liver because of heavy drinking, so giving him alcohol would not be good. If you assess that a heroin addict as having only a mild addiction (perhaps a friend of yours), giving him heroin is not wise giving.

There are passages in Scripture worth following, but just because it is Scripture, it is not automatically infallible.

 

[Stephen168]

There are passages in Scripture worth following, but just because it is Scripture, it is not automatically infallible.

A denomination of one

 

[PJM]

=mtolympus;11413031]How does the Catholic Church intreprete these scriptures?

“Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto those who obey him.” (Heb. 5:9) “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”(1 John 2:3)

The answer is both simple ad simply-profound.

What does it mean [to a Catholic] to “know Christ”?

The answer lies in the NECESSARY totalty of the knowledge. One truly [and factually] does NOT and CANNOT “knowChrist” without 1. Knowing ALL that Christ taught; mandates and commands 2. In a true and actual sense: returning to od our Freewill so that what God wants; we too want.

It means our understanding, desires, preferencs MUST be secondary to God’s stated Will.

That dar friend was the Devine Logic in choosing only “ONE”:
One God
Who can and DOES hve Only One set of Faith beliefs
And who commands the ONLY Church He actually persoanlly founded to Teach this faith.

Mk. 16:14-15 "At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, **and preach the gospel to every creature. **

Mt. 28:16-20 "And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.** Going therefore, teach ye all nations**; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

The Brilliance of “Just One” place to find the [always SINGULAR] truth; is one can’t get lost when there is ONLY One Place to go.

The second verse needs to be agumented with: Mt.19:17 " But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

What is OST often not rightly understood here is that the “10 Commandments” are MAJOR catagoroies of possible sins; NOT the only 10 possible sins. And Once again having ONLY ONE right place to go fo the information necesary to merit salvation is evident.

What John is saying is: “WILLFUL OBEDIENCE” to God’s commands and mandated actions are the EVIDENCE of our love For and towards God. This padssage REFUTES … “OSAS”; as God is constantly seeking evience of our Love in ALL of lifes choices and options. Grace does not stop once “one Knows Christ”; that when it REALLY begins to flow. That is when it become even more necessary for us.

God Bless you!
Patrick

 

[zaffiroborant]

Cold turkey alcohol withdrawal can be deadly, and so can heroin withdrawal cold turkey. What is your point?

I see you have ignored the Scripture that has been provided showing we should give and not judge.

Do you not believe in Scripture, or are you just trolling?

Well he’s moved from, people should have to be worthy and earn help and calling that charity, to saying giving to people in need (feed the hungry, clothe the naked…) is providing alcohol and drugs. And I guess it’s better to let children starve to death rather than feed them something they might be allergic to. Sounds like trolling.