Are Mormons Christians

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HojaVerde said:
I didn’t know about that :eek: (bringing people by proxy to their temple, including satan) . I would like to know more. Could you explain it a little bit more? Thank you!
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Being honest I never went into the temple, I know this from lots of research as I decided to leave Mormonism and talking to ex Mormons who had been endowed.

The endowment ceremony is a progression through various areas and rituals…the part i mention Is part of their telling of the story of the garden of Eden, I think it may have been replaced now by films which they show instead. Ill try and find a link to the YouTube videos…one LDS member who was considering leaving secretly filmed inside the temple (I will say Mormons find this very offensive as anything which happens in the temple they consider sacred and not t be talked of - I believe it’s all false and imagined by Joseph Smith who was a free mason so im happy to watch them and show them, but its upto others if they want to view these things, some Mormons would have taken the covenant to never reveal or face the death penalty shown by a sign of slitting the throat and gut…the death penalty was removed in 1990)…

Here are some videos…

m.youtube.com/results?q=mormon%20endowment%20ceremony%20video&sm=1

The one is called newnamenoah is the one who I talked about filming…watch some of his. His name is based on the fact that LDS receive a new name when they enter the temple…interestingly they all get the same name depending on which day of the week they go on.
 
nmgauss said:
What has that got to do with my posts? My profile as displayed in the upper right of the page says non-denominational.

Who gets to say whether or not a denomination is Christian? Here is a quote from Wikipedia on LDS:
“Adherents, sometimes referred to as Latter-day Saints or, more informally, Mormons, view faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement as the central tenet of their religion. LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ, though LDS doctrines regarding the nature of God and the potential of mankind differ significantly from mainstream Christianity”

This statement is supported by a substantial list of references and bibliography, so it is not a feeling or an opinion or something made up.

Perhaps the departure from mainstream Christianity is what has people accusing Mormons of not being Christian. There are variants on the theme of Christianity, and LDS fits within the variant category.
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I do not understand why the concept is so difficult for you. If Christ is “A” and Mormons believe in a Christ who is “B”, and true Christians are people who believe in Christ “A”, then Mormons are not Christians. That is not to say they are good people. Most are. But they are not Christians. They follow a morphed Christ.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Joseph Smith’s LDS teaching was that the Catholic Church (and other Christian churches) are false and apostate. Smith claimed to be chosen by God as the Prophet to (re-)establish the true faith, which exists only in the LDS church. Mormon teachings are very significantly different than Biblical Christianity. The LDS do not accept the validity of Trinitarian Baptism and the Catholic Church (and other Christian churches) do not accept the validity of LDS baptisms.

Having said all that, there is much to admire in the LDS church, particularly their strong devotion to family.
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Don’t all the churches believe they are the only church, that has the only way. Even the catholic church.
 
nmgauss said:
…Perhaps the departure from mainstream Christianity is what has people accusing Mormons of not being Christian. There are variants on the theme of Christianity, and LDS fits within the variant category.
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So wrong.
There are many “flavors” if you will of Christianity, this is true, but there are certain strict
tenants to which a religion and people must follow to be Christian. You have to believe in
One God to be a Christian, you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian, you have believe that Jesus is the Son of God AND GOD HIMSELF, Creator of the Worlds and the
one who will judge and the living and the dead. You have to believe that God is Eternal,
Eternally Father Son & Holy Spirit, that there is Only One God…

The LDS do NOT fit into that mold. You
can call it a pseudo-Christian religion I
guess, but not Christian or a variant of
Christianity.

Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist,
who denieth the Father, and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same
hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.
  • (I John 2:22-23)
 
nmgauss said:
What has that got to do with my posts? My profile as displayed in the upper right of the page says non-denominational.

Who gets to say whether or not a denomination is Christian? Here is a quote from Wikipedia on LDS:
“Adherents, sometimes referred to as Latter-day Saints or, more informally, Mormons, view faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement as the central tenet of their religion. LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ, though LDS doctrines regarding the nature of God and the potential of mankind differ significantly from mainstream Christianity”.
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Neither Wiki nor the History channel have the Authority to decide who is Christian. Best to leave the authority to do so to the Church that Christ established and promised to lead to all truth.

PnP
 
nmgauss said:
What has that got to do with my posts? My profile as displayed in the upper right of the page says non-denominational.

Who gets to say whether or not a denomination is Christian? Here is a quote from Wikipedia on LDS:
“Adherents, sometimes referred to as Latter-day Saints or, more informally, Mormons, view faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement as the central tenet of their religion. LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ, though LDS doctrines regarding the nature of God and the potential of mankind differ significantly from mainstream Christianity”

This statement is supported by a substantial list of references and bibliography, so it is not a feeling or an opinion or something made up.

Perhaps the departure from mainstream Christianity is what has people accusing Mormons of not being Christian. There are variants on the theme of Christianity, and LDS fits within the variant category.
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Joseph Smith took Christian words and phrases and grafted completely different meanings to them. Salvation to a Christian, and a Mormon, are two very different things. Don’t be fooled. Mormons use Christian terms but have applied non-Christian meanings to the terms.

To say they are “the same”, is a sophistry being employed by Mormons who are the Wikipedia editors.
 
Porknpie said:
Neither Wiki nor the History channel have the Authority to decide who is Christian. Best to leave the authority to do so to the Church that Christ established and promised to lead to all truth.

PnP
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What Authority does “the Church that Christ established” have to say who is a Christian and who is not?
 
nmgauss said:
What Authority does “the Church that Christ established” have to say who is a Christian and who is not?
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One one of the great things about the Catholic Church is that doctrine is clearly spelled out in the Catechism, and does not change. The key words below include being properly baptized.

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

PnP
 
I have not heard any pronouncements from Christ the King lately. Can you quote any of His statements on who is Christian and who is not?
 
Porknpie said:
One one of the great things about the Catholic Church is that doctrine is clearly spelled out in the Catechism, and does not change. The key words below include being properly baptized.

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

PnP
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By this citation you are implying that non Catholics are not Christian. Is that accurate?
 
nmgauss said:
I have not heard any pronouncements from Christ the King lately. Can you quote any of His statements on who is Christian and who is not?
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It’s like this, pay attention now: “Christian” means etymologically “follower of”
or “party to” “Christ,” which if you’re not, then the word Christian cannot apply
to you. How are you not?

Who is Christ?

Your Answer (as it seems): “Whatever I want him to be.” And that is the problem.

Many people of post-modernism (that’s you) really abuse the term
Christian, “Whatever I want it to mean,” is the train of thought that
I see in you. I don’t think so.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
It’s like this, pay attention now: “Christian” means etymologically “follower of”
or “party to” “Christ,” which if you’re not, then the word Christian cannot apply
to you. How are you not?

Who is Christ?

Your Answer (as it seems): “Whatever I want him to be.” And that is the problem.

Many people of post-modernism (that’s you) really abuse the term
Christian, “Whatever I want it to mean,” is the train of thought that
I see in you. I don’t think so.
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Judas T - perhaps a little, brief description of post-modernism would help here. 😃

Also, another question for our Mormon friends is what does Jesus mean in Hebrew?

Ans: God saves.

PnP
 
StephenL said:
Are Mormons Christians? If not then why do they believe in Christ?
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If a person claims to be a Christian, I take them at their word. The same as if a person claims to be a Jew, including a Messianic Jew, I say they are. Since Mormons claim to be Christians, they are Christians. Simplistic thinking perhaps, but I do not want to be in a position of judging whether someone is or is not a member of a religion they profess to belong to.
 
Porknpie said:
Judas T - perhaps a little, brief description of post-modernism would help here. 😃
Also, another question for our Mormon friends is what does Jesus mean in Hebrew?
Ans: God saves.
PnP
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Suppose it would help
nmgauss understand
what I’m saying:
By “post-modernism,” I mean it in terms of licentiousness (having no regard for accepted
rules or standards), the license to do as one pleases, define anything as one wishes, etc.
It is the philosophy of lawlessness: to deny truth and, in its stead, allow that “anything &
anything goes.”

“So what if Christianity has always meant ‘that’, I define it as ‘this’,” appears to be the
position that many take, like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, United Pentecostalists,
etc. I’m pretty certain that nmgauss is joining this party.
 
meltzerboy said:
If a person claims to be a Christian, I take them at their word. The same as if a person claims to be a Jew, including a Messianic Jew, I say they are. Since Mormons claim to be Christians, they are Christians. Simplistic thinking perhaps, but I do not want to be in a position of judging whether someone is or is not a member of a religion they profess to belong to.
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Too simplistic thinking, because Christian is not a word without meaning.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in One God who is infinite, Mormons do not.

With that simple comparison, Mormons are not even Abrahamic.

I’ll accept Mormons as pseudo-christians, fake christians, but not “Christians” without a word clarifying how they are not true Christians.
 
meltzerboy said:
If a person claims to be a Christian, I take them at their word. The same as if a person claims to be a Jew, including a Messianic Jew, I say they are. Since Mormons claim to be Christians, they are Christians. Simplistic thinking perhaps, but I do not want to be in a position of judging whether someone is or is not a member of a religion they profess to belong to.
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Meltzerboy,

That’s a post modernist thought too…that there is no objective truth and one can not judge another because everything is subjective.

Can I be Jewish if I worship a golden calf and not the almighty G-d even if I call myself Jewish? Would you not judge me? I believe that answers to be no and yes.

That’s exactly what Mormons do. They say that they are Christian when they have a erroneous understanding of the nature of God.

PnP
 
Porknpie said:
Meltzerboy,

That’s a post modernist thought too…that there is no objective truth and one can not judge another because everything is subjective.

Can I be Jewish if I worship a golden calf and not the almighty G-d even if I call myself Jewish? Would you not judge me? I believe that answers to be no and yes.

That’s exactly what Mormons do. They say that they are Christian when they have a erroneous understanding of the nature of God.

PnP
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Maybe whether one can call oneself Christian is somewhat different from calling oneself Jewish. There are people who call themselves Jewish atheists; they identify as Jews only in a cultural sense, not a religious one. While I have some difficulty with this, I still accept them as Jewish. In the case of worshiping a golden calf, it certainly would be problematic to call oneself Jewish if that were all one worshiped, unless one identified as a Jew only by culture and origin. However, in ancient times, there were Jews among certain sects who believed in minor deities in addition to worshiping G-d. They were not strictly monotheistic. Were they still Jewish? I would say yes if they considered themselves so.

With regard to identifying as Christian, would you also say that Oneness Pentecostals, who do not believe in the Trinitarian G-d, are not Christian? There used to be a group of so-called Christians who labeled themselves Binitarians and believed in G-d the Father and G-d the Son (Jesus) but not in the Holy Spirit? Would you say they too are not Christian? What about Quakers, many of whom regard themselves as Christian? Or Seventh-Day Adventists and JW’s? Would you deny all of these groups who identify as Christians the title of Christian, or would they simply be heretics?
 
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