Are Mormons Christians

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meltzerboy said:
First President of the World, now king of the world? But since facts don’t matter, I apologize Your Majesty.
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Awesome. Thank you for admitting that your statement that Mormons are Christians was only valid because facts do not matter

Now, when facts matter, you will see that Mormons are NOT Christians.
 
Facts are nothing but data. It’s what you do with the facts that matters.
Is there a pattern in the facts that shows a trend? More than one trend can be found in the facts.

What trends are detectable in the facts you are referring to?
 
nmgauss said:
That is not data. That is a conclusion based on trends revealed in data.

Again, where is the data and what trends can be detected in the data?
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No, all facts do not have to make a trend. The fact Mormons do not worship the triune God means they are not Christian.
 
nmgauss said:
That is not data. That is a conclusion based on trends revealed in data.

Again, where is the data and what trends can be detected in the data?
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No it’s a conclusion based on criteria laid out by the Church as stated in the catechism
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church
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You go by Wiki and the dictionary, the Church and it’s members go by the Church’s authority in this matter.🤷
 
meltzerboy said:
Can you also answer the second question of the OP: “If not, then why do they believe in Christ?”
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Because believing in “a christ” is not good enough.
You have to believe in **THE **Yeshua Mashiach, Bar Elohim Chaim,
not a fictional exalted creation,of another fictional exalted creation
ing, of a similar name with a bunch of wives.

Also,
You still haven’t addressed the situation of the non-delusional
Isis worshiping Pagan Curt of the reconstructed Kemetic trad-
ition who identifies himself religiously as a Jew.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Because believing in “a christ” is not good enough.
You have to believe in **THE **Yeshua Mashiach, Bar Elohim Chaim,
not a fictional exalted creation,of another fictional exalted creation
ing, of a similar name with a bunch of wives.

Also,
You still haven’t addressed the situation of the non-delusional
Isis worshiping Pagan Curt of the reconstructed Kemetic trad-
ition who identifies himself religiously as a Jew.
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Hasn’t poor Isis-worshiping, Pagan Curt suffered enough? Let’s let him heal with medication and psychotherapy before we evaluate his condition.

Mormons believe they understand the true Christ, and I am still under the impression that some other Christians accept them as part of the fold. You are basing your assessment, understandably, on what the Church teaches; but that may not be the only view of Christ and what it means to be Christian among the whole range of Christians who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus.

As a side-note, there is a movement that is known as Nazarene Judaism. It believes Jesus to be the Messiah but not G-d and members identify themselves as Jews. They believe that Jesus came to help Jews understand the Torah more profoundly. I accept them as Jews based on their self-identification although they would appear to be neither fish nor fowl. (Not the same with Pagan Curt, in my view.)
 
meltzerboy said:
Can you also answer the second question of the OP: “If not, then why do they believe in Christ?”
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To believe in Christ means many things. One can believe in George Washington but not know he was a General or a President.
To believe in Christ one must know he is the second person of the triune God. Christians are monotheists; Mormons are polytheists. They do not share the Christian understanding of who Christ is.
 
meltzerboy said:
Hasn’t poor Isis-worshiping, Pagan Curt suffered enough? Let’s let him heal with medication and psychotherapy before we evaluate his condition.
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We’ve been over this, he is perfectly competent.
meltzerboy said:
Mormons believe they understand the true Christ, and I am still under the impression that some other Christians accept them as part of the fold. You are basing your assessment, understandably, on what the Church teaches; but that may not be the only view of Christ and what it means to be Christian among the whole range of Christians who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus.
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Granted, there are some individual Christians and
maybe some denominations that wrongly accept
Mormonism as Christian, but they are confused,
not knowing how Mormons are not Christian.
The MAJORITY of the Christian Community (Talking Worldwide), the MAJORITY deny
Mormonism as Christian. They are polytheistic, bible-abusing, seekers to become as
God is. Refer back to my Duck/Platypus analogy ( #843).
meltzerboy said:
As a side-note, there is a movement that is known as Nazarene Judaism. It believes Jesus to be the Messiah but not G-d and members identify themselves as Jews. They believe that Jesus came to help Jews understand the Torah more profoundly. I accept them as Jews based on their self-identification although they would appear to be neither fish nor fowl. (Not the same with Pagan Curt, in my view.)
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Kinda irrelevant, arguably a red-herring (You did start with “As a side-note…”), because
that isn’t the issue. I accept them as Jews as well. Messianic Jews they’re called too?

But now back to Curt: Have you ruled him out as a Jew at last,
given every detail I ascribed to this hypothetical character? It’s
okay, he is not real, so he won’t get upset.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
We’ve been over this, he is perfectly competent.

Granted, there are some individual Christians and
maybe some denominations that wrongly accept
Mormonism as Christian, but they are confused,
not knowing how Mormons are not Christian.
The MAJORITY of the Christian Community (Talking Worldwide), the MAJORITY deny
Mormonism as Christian. They are polytheistic, bible-abusing, seekers to become as
God is. Refer back to my Duck/Platypus analogy ( #843).

Kinda irrelevant, arguably a red-herring (You did start with “As a side-note…”), because
that isn’t the issue. I accept them as Jews as well. Messianic Jews they’re called too?

But now back to Curt: Have you ruled him out as a Jew at last,
given every detail I ascribed to this hypothetical character? It’s
okay, he is not real, so he won’t get upset.
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I would rule out hypothetical Curt as a Jew, but I believe him to be delusional since he has no basis whatsoever in considering himself Jewish. In my view, the same situation does not apply to Mormons. You apparently disagree.

Nazarene Jews are not the same as Messianic Jews. The latter do accept Jesus as both Messiah and G-d, not “merely” the Messiah. Even here, I regard them as Jews but it is admittedly a stretch. I suppose you would not consider them Christians unless they accept the Trinity.

BTW, I know the Mormons label themselves as the true Christians whereas they call you Gentiles. Do you have any information concerning what they think of the Jews?
 
meltzerboy said:
I would rule out hypothetical Curt as a Jew, but I believe him to be delusional since he has no basis whatsoever in considering himself Jewish. In my view, the same situation does not apply to Mormons. You apparently disagree.

Nazarene Jews are not the same as Messianic Jews. The latter do accept Jesus as both Messiah and G-d, not “merely” the Messiah. Even here, I regard them as Jews but it is admittedly a stretch. I suppose you would not consider them Christians unless they accept the Trinity.

BTW, I know the Mormons label themselves as the true Christians whereas they call you Gentiles. Do you have any information concerning what they think of the Jews?
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How, in your view, is Curt the Not-Jew not comparable to the Mormon/Christian question?

Actually you just reminded me, thanks, there is one Messianic Jew, Dr. Michael Brown,
who allowed Scripture to show him that Jesus is God AND that God is Father Son and
Holy Spirit, distinction or person, singularity in being, I believe is close to what he said.

I don’t know how Mormons view Jews, but does it not bother you in any way
how they lay claim to your heritage, not to mention the Aaronic Priesthood?

I would expect a Jew to take at least a little umbrage in that as we
Christians do when their doctrine holds that we belong to Babylon.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
How, in your view, is Curt the Not-Jew not comparable to the Mormon/Christian question?

Actually you just reminded me, thanks, there is one Messianic Jew, Dr. Michael Brown,
who allowed Scripture to show him that Jesus is God AND that God is Father Son and
Holy Spirit, distinction or person, singularity in being, I believe is close to what he said.

I don’t know how Mormons view Jews, but does it not bother you in any way
how they lay claim to your heritage, not to mention the Aaronic Priesthood?

I would expect a Jew to take at least a little umbrage in that as we
Christians do when their doctrine holds that we belong to Babylon.
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I’m familiar with Dr. Michael Brown mainly through his interesting debates with Rabbi Tovia Singer, two skilled apologists. I can understand your dislike of Mormonism based on what they say about Catholics although, on a individual level, I’m sure some Mormons may be less dogmatic and more affable. I can’t say I know any personally, though. I’ll have to do a little research about their claims with regard to Jewish heritage.
 
:rolleyes:
Judas_Thaddeus said:
How, in your view, is Curt the Not-Jew not comparable to the Mormon/Christian question?

Actually you just reminded me, thanks, there is one Messianic Jew, Dr. Michael Brown,
who allowed Scripture to show him that Jesus is God AND that God is Father Son and
Holy Spirit, distinction or person, singularity in being, I believe is close to what he said.

I don’t know how Mormons view Jews, but does it not bother you in any way
how they lay claim to your heritage, not to mention the Aaronic Priesthood?

I would expect a Jew to take at least a little umbrage in that as we
Christians do when their doctrine holds that we belong to Babylon.
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I am aware that Mormons call Jewish people ‘gentiles’, as they do all non-Mormons. Imagine that a Jewish gentile. :rolleyes:
 
zaffiroborant said:
No it’s a conclusion based on criteria laid out by the Church as stated in the catechism

You go by Wiki and the dictionary, the Church and it’s members go by the Church’s authority in this matter.🤷
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Christianity is not necessarily Catholicism. The Catholic Church has no authority over non-Catholics.

Which catechism is the only right one, and all others are wrong?
2 Protestant catechisms 2.1 Lutheran
2.2 Reformed 2.2.1 Genevan Catechism
2.2.2 Heidelberg Catechism
2.2.3 Westminster Catechisms
2.2.4 Other Reformed catechisms

2.3 Baptist Catechisms
2.4 Anglican Catechism
2.5 Socinian and other sectarian catechisms

3 Catholic catechisms 3.1 Roman Catechism
3.2 Catechism of Saint Pius X
3.3 Baltimore Catechism
3.4 Catechism of Christian Doctrine (or “Penny Catechism”)
3.5 Dutch Catechism
3.6 Catechism of the Catholic Church 3.6.1 Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church

3.7 United States Catholic Catechism for Adults
3.8 Enchiridion symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et morum
3.9 The Douay Catechism
3.10 Catechism for Filipino Catholics
3.11 A Catechism or Christian Doctrine
3.12 The Catechetical Instructions of St. Thomas Aquinas
 
kimg901 said:
Its a platyduck. I never seen a platypus flying around the marshes here in Utah so its not a duck. And ive shot a lot of ducks. Good for my tummy.
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Kimg,

This was timely. I made a bet with my older daughter for a frozen custard today on whether a platypus was a mammal or not. I said yes. 👍 She said no because mammals give birth to their babies. When she looked it up, she found out that the there are a handful of mammals that lay eggs. Platypus being one of them.

So I got a free frozen custard. 😛
 
meltzerboy said:
Can you also answer the second question of the OP: “If not, then why do they believe in Christ?”
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Meltzerboy,

Catholic response would be that the devil believes in Christ. The devil knows who Jesus is and the true nature of Jesus. But that doesn’t make him a Christian.

Mormons hold an erroneous nature of Christ, deceived by a Joseph Smith.

Certainly you understand the history of false prophets and how false prophets have led people astray. This one is no different except his history is more recent.

PnP
 
meltzerboy said:
I’m familiar with Dr. Michael Brown mainly through his interesting debates with Rabbi Tovia Singer, two skilled apologists. I can understand your dislike of Mormonism based on what they say about Catholics although, on a individual level, I’m sure some Mormons may be less dogmatic and more affable. I can’t say I know any personally, though. I’ll have to do a little research about their claims with regard to Jewish heritage.
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I know Dr. Brown from a “Is Jesus God” debate partnered with James White
against Sir Anthony Buzzard (who is scary, by the way) and Joseph Good. 👍

Mormons don’t just attack the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon, but
it also calls all Protestant sects as “Daughters of ‘Her’ Fornication.” It is true,
however, some Mormons are not made very aware of certain LDS Doctrines,
but even if they are aware of such, they don’t like talking about it aloud, kind-
a drives likely converts away.

You shouldn’t have too much trouble finding
Mormon claims to succession from ancient
Judaism, they talk about it all the time.
 
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