Are most Episcopalians the radical liberal type or no?

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benjohnson said:
Speaking personally - here in the Pacific NW, people who describe themselves as Anglicans are a saintly people. Those who describe themselves as Episcopalians are apt to have a ‘coexists’ sticker on their Toyota Prius - the split between the two is quite complete.

Episcopal:

http://themcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Katharine-Jefferts-Schori.jpg

Anglican:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oN5K_WcO5JM/Su841kAByKI/AAAAAAAACC4/WhL-jx2rul8/s400/Pictures%2B-%2BFr.%2BPhillips%2B055[1].jpg
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Next week I have a landscape project going on a block from st marks on capital hill and in my spare time I’m going to share the gospel with the Episcapalians because I doubt any of them have heard it.

I agree 100% with Ben
 
benjohnson said:
Good eye!

It’s from here: stalbanfellowship.org/letter-and-articles/fr-phillips-5202010
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Thanks. It is a picture of Our Lady of the Atonement Church in San Antonio and Fr. Phillips is the Pastor. It is the largest Anglican Use Catholic parish in the US and probably has around 500-600 families. It has been in existence for 30 years.

I have been to St. Mary the Virgin parish in Arlington, TX twice and am familiar with some of the other AU parishes. It can be confusing between Anglican parishes and those who are now Catholic and have kept their Anglican Patrimony/Traditions.

God Bless
 
Compeccator said:
I am leaving the Episcopal Church precisely because of these theological views. Completely untenable, especially if you declare the Bible as part of your doctrine of authority.

The typical Episcopalian, as I have witnessed first hand for many years, does not confess their sins (at least not in the sacramental sense), and many parishes do not receive holy Communion on regular basis.

That being said there are many good and well intentioned Episcopalians that remain in the church, and many that do a lot of very good work for the poor and marginalized for society. I will always count among some of the most ardent believers I know as Episcopalians.

Although, I personally could no longer in good conscious remain in worship in a church that allows the heresies (from an orthodox and Catholic viewpoint) that the OP described. It is slowly, but rest assured certainly, becoming the norm. Just look at some of the resolutions passed by their General Convention last year generalconvention.org/gc/gc2012. There is a bishop that declares himself a non-believer.… what else is there to say?
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Prayers for you on your journey to the One True Church!
 
The Episcopal Church inevitably becomes more liberal when conservative members leave and the RC or Orthodox becomes more conservative if conservative episcopaleans join

I fully believe that the Anglican Church in North America is similar to the Pius the Vth group-you can not turn back the clock nor can you stifle the intellect of the believers for ever-with about 100,000 members the Anglican Church in No:cool:rth America will survive for a generation or so

ECUSA is likely to hang on longer but I suspect will suffer the same fate-
 
BernadetteM said:
The last picture you posted is of a Catholic “Anglican Use” parish, fully part of the Catholic Church, not Anglican.

God Bless

Bernadette
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Hah, beat me to it! I was gonna say, I’ve been to Mass at that parish. It’s lovely.
 
cmodrmac said:
The Episcopal Church inevitably becomes more liberal when conservative members leave and the RC or Orthodox becomes more conservative if conservative episcopaleans join

I fully believe that the Anglican Church in North America is similar to the Pius the Vth group-you can not turn back the clock nor can you stifle the intellect of the believers for ever-with about 100,000 members the Anglican Church in No:cool:rth America will survive for a generation or so

ECUSA is likely to hang on longer but I suspect will suffer the same fate-
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Which Pius?

GKC
 
Compeccator said:
I am leaving the Episcopal Church precisely because of these theological views. Completely untenable, especially if you declare the Bible as part of your doctrine of authority.

The typical Episcopalian, as I have witnessed first hand for many years, does not confess their sins (at least not in the sacramental sense), and many parishes do not receive holy Communion on regular basis.

That being said there are many good and well intentioned Episcopalians that remain in the church, and many that do a lot of very good work for the poor and marginalized for society. I will always count among some of the most ardent believers I know as Episcopalians.

Although, I personally could no longer in good conscious remain in worship in a church that allows the heresies (from an orthodox and Catholic viewpoint) that the OP described. It is slowly, but rest assured certainly, becoming the norm. Just look at some of the resolutions passed by their General Convention last year generalconvention.org/gc/gc2012. There is a bishop that declares himself a non-believer.… what else is there to say?
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It goes way beyond my understanding why the churches of the Anglican Communion appoint people to senior offices when they hold, at best, heterodox, and probably heretical, beliefs.
 
Pius the Vth -look up Pius the V Society with headquarters in Oyster Bay New York-they also have a large contingent of Sisters-they broke off from Pius the Xth Society (felt it was too liberal):cool:
 
cmodrmac said:
Pius the Vth -look up Pius the V Society with headquarters in Oyster Bay New York-they also have a large contingent of Sisters-they broke off from Pius the Xth Society (felt it was too liberal):cool:
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I’m familiar with both. Just curious.

GKC
 
All_Father said:
For example, you have weird theologians like Marcus Borg or John Shelby Spong who were active clergy but basically were atheists or pantheists following the peaceful teachings of Jesus.

And then i see an active episcopalian referring to God as female and saying Jesus was an illiterate peasant.

So are these heresies the ‘norm’?

I knew they had some conflict with the Church of England Anglicans over gays. Don’t they perform gay marriages now I think?
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I must say, that’s an interesting question when asked by a person whose screen name is the Eddic Asatru name for Odin. Is it safe to assume you’re not a Catholic?
 
I think its only the liberal types of Episcopalians that get coverage, be it spong and his blatantly heretical works or openly practicing or supporting homosexual episcopalians.
 
cmodrmac said:
most members of the Episcopal Church are normal Christians and members of a Church with a long history-we encourage discussion and individual thoughts on all issues-we believe in the principles in the Nicene Creed which we say at every service-we have the same sacraments that RC have

Where we differ from the RC Church (which we respect) are in the following areas:

1: issues of human sexuality

2: female ordination

3: sacrament of reconciliation -our understanding of it

4: we view the Pope as a Holy Man -not our spiritual leader:cool:

I personally am a Physician -socially conservative - and love my Church warts and all

In naming a few of our more colorful characters you forgot Matthew Fox and several hundred former Roman Catholic Priests (Fr. Cutie of course in Miami)
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I’m curious as to know your opinion on Spong who denies the real ressurection of Jesus Christ and is seemingly still in full communion with the Episcopal church. Does that not draw the line? Are such beliefs common in the episcopal church?
 
As a Lutheran who has regularly worshiped with Episcopalians [and Roman Catholics for that matter] it is concerning to read of theologians who deny the absolutes of Christianity. I am aware of some past or present Episcopal bishops who question the divinity of Christ and am saddened by the repercussions such questions have on the Church. But Episcopalians have a rich history of independence and latitude. In every Christian denomination, including Roman Catholics, there are scholars who assert a belief or question a doctrine that may be contrary to apostolic faith. Didn’t Mother Teresa voice doubts about the faith? The Apostles James and Peter denied our Lord.

We must be very careful to not label fellow Christians as heretics since our faith in God has many turns and twists of doubt and recovery.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
We must be very careful to not label fellow Christians as heretics since our faith in God has many turns and twists of doubt and recovery.
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“Heretic” isn’t meant as a permanent label. It just expresses the current situation – “obstinate post-baptismal denial of dogma” (CCC 2089). You can know the facts, refer to someone using the appropriate term, and still know that only God judges that soul in the end, and things could always change. Nothing inherently uncharitable about it.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
As a Lutheran who has regularly worshiped with Episcopalians [and Roman Catholics for that matter] it is concerning to read of theologians who deny the absolutes of Christianity. I am aware of some past or present Episcopal bishops who question the divinity of Christ and am saddened by the repercussions such questions have on the Church. But Episcopalians have a rich history of independence and latitude. In every Christian denomination, including Roman Catholics, there are scholars who assert a belief or question a doctrine that may be contrary to apostolic faith. Didn’t Mother Teresa voice doubts about the faith? The Apostles James and Peter denied our Lord.

We must be very careful to not label fellow Christians as heretics since our faith in God has many turns and twists of doubt and recovery.
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So true. I’ve worshiped with them, they seems like fairly Conservative little old ladies, for the most part. The little Parish I have gone to does a lot of good works.

Ex-Catholics drawn to them usually don’t like some of the rigid Catholic rules like forbidding birth control, mandating weekly Church attendance, keeping in place a strict, all male hierarchy, labeling common sexual practices, such as masturbation, mortal sins. The Episcopal Church rejects those things while still maintaining a rich liturgical life.
 
And might I add, there is a lot more integrity, I think, to switch to a church more in line with ones true beliefs, than attending a Catholic Church and not observing or believing in its many edicts. How many Catholics use birth control, masturbate, don’t observe the Holy Days, miss Mass regularly, think Gay marriage is no big deal, distrusts the Roman Hierarchy, the list goes on and on. Yet continue to receive Communion and haven’t gone to confession is years.🤷
 
Country_Gal said:
So true. I’ve worshiped with them, they seems like fairly Conservative little old ladies, for the most part. The little Parish I have gone to does a lot of good works.

Ex-Catholics drawn to them usually don’t like some of the rigid Catholic rules like forbidding birth control, mandating weekly Church attendance, keeping in place a strict, all male hierarchy, labeling common sexual practices, such as masturbation, mortal sins. The Episcopal Church rejects those things while still maintaining a rich liturgical life.
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Agree entirely. And know, first-hand of Catholics who feel quite at home in Episcopal parishes for precisely the reasons you have listed.
 
Someone here pulled up a colorful picture of a female priest. Another cites a left-winged, off the charts theologian. We could easily do the same to the Catholic Church, showing silly looking Masses and quoting a Theologian with unconventional ideas.

Even Roman Catholic theology is constantly evolving. If one goes back 500 years, even some great Saints had what now we think of as wacky ideas, by modern standards. The Church used to take a dim view of the Jews, for example, with many priests and bishops complicit in pretty bad persecution. The Anglican Church has a similar history. Now both are strong promoters of peace and ethnic and religious harmony.
 
Country_Gal said:
Someone here pulled up a colorful picture of a female priest. Another cites a left-winged, off the charts theologian. We could easily do the same to the Catholic Church, showing silly looking Masses and quoting a Theologian with unconventional ideas.
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Like Matthew Fox and his Cosmic Mass. Or Hans Kung.

btw, I like seeing BBT referenced in a signature 😃
 
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