Are most people going to Hell?

[paul_c]

I think the number of people who are saved will vary from place to place and time to time. Trying to put a number or percent on it is a fool’s errand because it has no bearing on the individual case.

We all know the deal. You need to love God and love your neighbor. You need to be in a state of Grace. You need to follow the commandments, do the works of mercy, live a beatific life.
We all know we will stumble, but we also know that there is sacramental forgiveness to the contrite, repentent, penetential man. So for the person who does these things, the chances of salvation should be pretty good.

Let’s set the bar at a very low level. Since salvation is through the Catholic church, what percentage of the people love God enough to go to mass every weekend? The Catholic Church teaches that skipping mass is a mortal sin, yet only a third of all catholics in the US and far fewer in Europe go to mass. If 25% of the people are Catholic to begin with and only 33% go to mass, that means that less than 10% pass the very low bar of holiness of going to weekly mass. Its very depressing to think about it, but its very easy to see how a very low percentage of the modern population might be saved.

Maybe God in his mercy will lower the bar and let more of us undeserving people in. However, it would be foolish to bank on that. Afterall, he saved 8 people in the entire world during the great flood and the entire population of Israel died in the desert except Caleb and Joshua. The simple fact is, if we truly believe the message, we need to act on it…

 

[expectthebest]

I think the number of people who are saved will vary from place to place and time to time. Trying to put a number or percent on it is a fool’s errand because it has no bearing on the individual case.

We all know the deal. You need to love God and love your neighbor. You need to be in a state of Grace. You need to follow the commandments, do the works of mercy, live a beatific life.
We all know we will stumble, but we also know that there is sacramental forgiveness to the contrite, repentent, penetential man. So for the person who does these things, the chances of salvation should be pretty good.

Let’s set the bar at a very low level. Since salvation is through the Catholic church, what percentage of the people love God enough to go to mass every weekend? The Catholic Church teaches that skipping mass is a mortal sin, yet only a third of all catholics in the US and far fewer in Europe go to mass. If 25% of the people are Catholic to begin with and only 33% go to mass, that means that less than 10% pass the very low bar of holiness of going to weekly mass. Its very depressing to think about it, but its very easy to see how a very low percentage of the modern population might be saved.

Maybe God in his mercy will lower the bar and let more of us undeserving people in. However, it would be foolish to bank on that. Afterall, he saved 8 people in the entire world during the great flood and the entire population of Israel died in the desert except Caleb and Joshua. The simple fact is, if we truly believe the message, we need to act on it…

The fact that we do stumble is part of what scares me. For example, according to Catholic Dogma, one could live his entire life as a pure and holy person, fail one time, get hit by a bus on the way to Confession, and be damned for eternity. See what I mean?

As for the great flood, God saved the life of 8 people but that doesn’t mean those who were killed went to Hell, right?

 

[expectthebest]

Let’s set the bar at a very low level. Since salvation is through the Catholic church, what percentage of the people love God enough to go to mass every weekend? The Catholic Church teaches that skipping mass is a mortal sin, yet only a third of all catholics in the US and far fewer in Europe go to mass. If 25% of the people are Catholic to begin with and only 33% go to mass, that means that less than 10% pass the very low bar of holiness of going to weekly mass. Its very depressing to think about it, but its very easy to see how a very low percentage of the modern population might be saved.

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[expectthebest]

The article left me extremely depressed, even to the point of despair.

It is now hard to even go to my Mass on Sundays, with this realization. I am lucky enough to attend a mass where the pews are packed on Sundays. I attend a large parish on the outskirts of Houston. Of the thousands of people who attend Mass there every Sunday, are all but a few destined for Hell? Will any of them receive salvation?

The parish also has a very large CCE program, with hundreds of pre-teens, teenagers and young adults who come to learn the faith. All of them are past the age of reason. I counsel many of these youths, and most are devout Christians, who love and serve the Lord. Are they condemned as well?

What of the members of my own family? What of those that are already deceased? Many were true and faithful Catholics. Are all of them condemned?

Am I missing something from this article? Is our shot at redemption only one in thousands, as the author states? If so, isn’t the pursuit of salvation pointless?

I am faithful to the Lord, and keep his commandments. I try to put my faith into action. I try to lead a life of charity, and avoid sin wherever I can. Is this not enough? I know many others who did the same, and have already died. Are they in Hell, and will I join them someday?

I agree with some posters who have responded to this article - it can almost serve to undermine faith, rather than bolster it. It is very depressing. I am going through a tough time psychologically and emotionally right now, and this does not help.

mrpathetic,

Do not feel alone. I at times feel the same way. But, God has always brought be out of it with a strong feeling of hope. Pray that God gives you Grace to overcome this and I He will. It’s not always easy though and may take some work on your part. Try to put negative thoughts out of your mind as soon as they enter. This helps me. I will pray for you.

 

[Dorothy]

The fact that we do stumble is part of what scares me. For example, according to Catholic Dogma, one could live his entire life as a pure and holy person, fail one time, get hit by a bus on the way to Confession, and be damned for eternity. See what I mean?

As for the great flood, God saved the life of 8 people but that doesn’t mean those who were killed went to Hell, right?

Our finite minds can make up a lot of scenarios that might tempt us to think that God isn’t fair, and that would be very wrong.

First of all, If a person lives his entire life as “a pure and holy person” it is not likely that he will easily fall mortally; and even if he did, but had the good intention of going to confession but died on the way, that most likely he would have perfect contrition and would be saved.

When we get too technical it just doesn’t sound right. All I know is that God is just and merciful - perfectly.

 

[paul_c]

I personally am of the opinion that we choose whether we go to heaven or hell by the way we live our lives. I am hopeful, not confident and not dismayed. In fact, I have found significant peace lately. If you honestly seek the Lord and try to help your neighbors, I think you will most likely persevere. The reason that so many people go to Hell, is that so few people honestly seek the Lord. As I said in a previous post, if only 20-25% are Catholics and only a third of them even bother to go to mass each weekend, that means less than 10% are practicing the Faith by which you get salvation. This would go a long way in explaining how only a minority get to Heaven… Its very discouraging that so few love the Lord enough to devote even an hour to his glory…

 

[paul_c]

As luck would have it, I was reading Pope Benedicts “Saved in Hope” (Spe Salvi) tonight and he addresses this very point. He notes that some go to Heaven and some to hell but in paragraph 46 he says this:

1. Yet we know from experience that neither case is normal in human life. For the great majority of people—we may suppose—there remains in the depths of their being an ultimate interior openness to truth, to love, to God. In the concrete choices of life, however, it is covered over by ever new compromises with evil—much filth covers purity, but the thirst for purity remains and it still constantly re-emerges from all that is base and remains present in the soul. What happens to such individuals when they appear before the Judge? Will all the impurity they have amassed through life suddenly cease to matter? What else might occur? Saint Paul, in his First Letter to the Corinthians, gives us an idea of the differing impact of God’s judgement according to each person’s particular circumstances. He does this using images which in some way try to express the invisible, without it being possible for us to conceptualize these images—simply because we can neither see into the world beyond death nor do we have any experience of it. Paul begins by saying that Christian life is built upon a common foundation: Jesus Christ. This foundation endures. If we have stood firm on this foundation and built our life upon it, we know that it cannot be taken away from us even in death. Then Paul continues: “Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:12-15). In this text, it is in any case evident that our salvation can take different forms, that some of what is built may be burned down, that in order to be saved we personally have to pass through “fire” so as to become fully open to receiving God and able to take our place at the table of the eternal marriage-feast.

I find this most hopeful…I think Catholics should want to go to Purgatory as a means of being made worthy of God, who we should love above all things…

 

[mrpathetic]

Please do not allow St. Leonard’s sermon to disturb you.
In his sermon he states his reason for saying what he says is “…to contain the pride of libertines who cast the holy fear of God out of their heart…”

Do not allow St. Leonard’s strong words used to impress the hard-hearted to depress you.

"…

I’m sorry. I am sure that when St. Leonard gave this sermon, probably no one walked out. It was probably intended for every there, even the “pious souls”, who St. Leonard said could leave.

I think that St. Leonard intended this sermon to inspire every listener to an examination of conscience. He wanted every one her heard this sermon to ask themselves, “Do I really merit redemption? Am I really one of the elect?”

=============================================

I do this constantly, and the results are saddening. I seem to fail every day, at my Christian life and vocation. I pray to the Lord to give me the strength to succeed, but I still fail.

My vocation is a disaster. I am married with two children. My wife has completely abandoned her faith, and I fear she is taking our son with her. Our daughter still has faith, but she is disinterested in the Catholic way of life, and has no respect for our Church. I fear that I lack the strength and courage, to fulfill my vocation. And for that, God will surely judge me harshly.

How could someone who has failed as terribly as I have, possibly deserve salvation?

 

[paul_c]

I’m sorry. I am sure that when St. Leonard gave this sermon, probably no one walked out. It was probably intended for every there, even the “pious souls”, who St. Leonard said could leave.

I think that St. Leonard intended this sermon to inspire every listener to an examination of conscience. He wanted every one her heard this sermon to ask themselves, “Do I really merit redemption? Am I really one of the elect?”

=============================================

I do this constantly, and the results are saddening. I seem to fail every day, at my Christian life and vocation. I pray to the Lord to give me the strength to succeed, but I still fail.

My vocation is a disaster. I am married with two children. My wife has completely abandoned her faith, and I fear she is taking our son with her. Our daughter still has faith, but she is disinterested in the Catholic way of life, and has no respect for our Church. I fear that I lack the strength and courage, to fulfill my vocation. And for that, God will surely judge me harshly.

How could someone who has failed as terribly as I have, possibly deserve salvation?

Take heart and don’t lose faith, either in Jesus, his gospel, or yourself. I know it sounds strange, but don’t worry about your wife’s lack of faith. Demonstrate your faith and she may well come back. Don’t push, just act. It took 20 years but I saw my wife going from a non-church going, semi-Athiest to a devout Catholic who is now reading my Saint Biographies and sacred literature as soon as I finish them…

 

[Dorothy]

I’m sorry. I am sure that when St. Leonard gave this sermon, probably no one walked out. It was probably intended for every there, even the “pious souls”, who St. Leonard said could leave.

I think that St. Leonard intended this sermon to inspire every listener to an examination of conscience. He wanted every one her heard this sermon to ask themselves, “Do I really merit redemption? Am I really one of the elect?”

=============================================

I do this constantly, and the results are saddening. I seem to fail every day, at my Christian life and vocation. I pray to the Lord to give me the strength to succeed, but I still fail.

My vocation is a disaster. I am married with two children. My wife has completely abandoned her faith, and I fear she is taking our son with her. Our daughter still has faith, but she is disinterested in the Catholic way of life, and has no respect for our Church. I fear that I lack the strength and courage, to fulfill my vocation. And for that, God will surely judge me harshly.

How could someone who has failed as terribly as I have, possibly deserve salvation?

Please recognize that you are being tempted to despair. Pray for the virtue of HOPE. Also, talk to a priest you feel comfortable with.

Have confidence in the infinite love God has for you. If you are so inclined read the autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux. She was sanctified because of her great confidence in God’s love. She teaches us her “little way of love and self surrender”.

I, too, have had similar problems in my marriage and prayed for many years for my husband. I had prayerful friends who prayed with me at times. Before my husband died he came to the faith. Of my eight children there are some who are not following the Lord’s way. I pray for them daily.

Our spouses and children have free will. Be at peace, stay close to the Lord, and do not fret about their choices…just pray for them and for yourself for peace and confidence in the Lord’s love for you.

 

[CentralFLJames]

How could someone who has failed as terribly as I have, possibly deserve salvation?

Ah, my friend, no one deserves salvation. This is the crux of the matter. We can not earn it - we can only ascend to it through faith, hope, charity and trust.

Love also covers a multitude of faults.

Mercy is also available to us - if we show mercy to others.

There are lots of things God has given us to get us home.

Grace is amazing - trust in it and cooperate with it. Falling is OK if we get up again and is the very thing that teaches us where we are weak. God tests our faith - we can expect it. It is necesssary. But to dispair is the thing we can not do - ever.

Keep getting up and trying over and over.

Do some of the devotionals such as Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary - they have amazing promises of final repentance and sabatine privileges too (speedy delivery from purgatory). This will remove a lot of worry and anxiety and get you back to positive grown again and out of your rut and productively advancing in your faith.

TRUST.

James

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Recently I’ve been thinking of this issue as well, It’s quite a spiritual crusher when you think about all those people who first aren’t Catholic by choice and then by the sheer numbers of people who will die in sin who are Catholic.

However the real problem that leaves me empty of any spirituality is thinking of people who will go to hell because they are Pious toward a different religion. Honestly I cannot fathom the fact that if say somone from a Protestant denomination lived a life comparible to a saint and their only fault was that they did not accept the Catholic Faith as the truth then they are sentenced to Hell. After all the religion you start with is really determined by region and your parents. This is not merely a Catholic issue either, almost every religion claims to be the full truth and will teach their followers that the other churches are of lies; so it makes me feel like this is just fearmongering to keep the flock in line and away from other religions grasps.

Plus the punishment is Equal wheather you purposely sinned once but more or less lived a good life in the past or if you commited mass Genocide without a qualm. I mean it’d be difficult to try to explain that the Genocider will be tortured worse when it’s an Eternal Damnation for both people!

I’ve only read through about two pages of this topic and hopefully I find something to explain this seemingly unjust actions…

 

[Abbadon]

Recently I’ve been thinking of this issue as well, It’s quite a spiritual crusher when you think about all those people who first aren’t Catholic by choice and then by the sheer numbers of people who will die in sin who are Catholic.

However the real problem that leaves me empty of any spirituality is thinking of people who will go to hell because they are Pious toward a different religion. Honestly I cannot fathom the fact that if say somone from a Protestant denomination lived a life comparible to a saint and their only fault was that they did not accept the Catholic Faith as the truth then they are sentenced to Hell. After all the religion you start with is really determined by region and your parents. This is not merely a Catholic issue either, almost every religion claims to be the full truth and will teach their followers that the other churches are of lies; so it makes me feel like this is just fearmongering to keep the flock in line and away from other religions grasps.

Plus the punishment is Equal wheather you purposely sinned once but more or less lived a good life in the past or if you commited mass Genocide without a qualm. I mean it’d be difficult to try to explain that the Genocider will be tortured worse when it’s an Eternal Damnation for both people!

I’ve only read through about two pages of this topic and hopefully I find something to explain this seemingly unjust actions…

What about those that commit genocide like atrocities who asks for forgiveness and truly repents and accepts the catholic doctrine but does nothing more. Do they not go to heaven?

As opposed to those that commit terrible crimes and live out the rest of their lives making up for what they have done and are also truly sorry. But not accepting Jesus. Do they not go to hell?

I hear no one but god knows nor can judge. But so many a time I am told what I must do to avoid going to hell.

 

[Abbadon]

I personally am of the opinion that we choose whether we go to heaven or hell by the way we live our lives. I am hopeful, not confident and not dismayed. In fact, I have found significant peace lately. If you honestly seek the Lord and try to help your neighbors, I think you will most likely persevere. The reason that so many people go to Hell, is that so few people honestly seek the Lord. As I said in a previous post, if only 20-25% are Catholics and only a third of them even bother to go to mass each weekend, that means less than 10% are practicing the Faith by which you get salvation. This would go a long way in explaining how only a minority get to Heaven… Its very discouraging that so few love the Lord enough to devote even an hour to his glory…

According to wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

Church membership in 2007 was 1.131 billion people

ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
and current world population is around 6.9 billion

leaves 16% of the population as catholic

even if the 1/3 estimate mentioned above is correct and they are “true catholics”.

That leaves only about 5.5% of the world as “entering heaven”.

This does not include death rates

This is approximately the population of Bangladesh and Pakistan combined.

Now imagine if everyone else on earth except for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were tortured painfully for all eternity.

 

[Abbadon]

That leaves only about 5.5% of the world as “entering heaven”.

This does not include death rates

This is approximately the population of Bangladesh and Pakistan combined.

Now imagine if everyone else on earth except for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were tortured painfully for all eternity.

So if we take that about 1/6 people are self-proclaimed catholics, and that about one in three of these go to church regularly, that leaves, as i just said, 5% going to heaven.

This means that the chance of you personally going to heaven is about the same as your chance of dying of HIV/AIDS.

Hey guys you should all check out Starfield’s new album and their awesome music in general
myspace.com/starfield
youtube.com/watch?v=XwzquHf5z2A&feature=channel_page

 

[Dorothy]

Recently I’ve been thinking of this issue as well, It’s quite a spiritual crusher when you think about all those people who first aren’t Catholic by choice and then by the sheer numbers of people who will die in sin who are Catholic.

However the real problem that leaves me empty of any spirituality is thinking of people who will go to hell because they are Pious toward a different religion. Honestly I cannot fathom the fact that if say somone from a Protestant denomination lived a life comparible to a saint and their only fault was that they did not accept the Catholic Faith as the truth then they are sentenced to Hell. After all the religion you start with is really determined by region and your parents. This is not merely a Catholic issue either, almost every religion claims to be the full truth and will teach their followers that the other churches are of lies; so it makes me feel like this is just fearmongering to keep the flock in line and away from other religions grasps.

Plus the punishment is Equal wheather you purposely sinned once but more or less lived a good life in the past or if you commited mass Genocide without a qualm. I mean it’d be difficult to try to explain that the Genocider will be tortured worse when it’s an Eternal Damnation for both people!

I’ve only read through about two pages of this topic and hopefully I find something to explain this seemingly unjust actions…

Catholics don’t teach what you think they do.

Here it is from our Catechism. You can look it up for yourself.

First, there is this statement: “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

Then, read CCC #847:

"This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: ‘Those who, through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.’ (from Lumen Gentium).

So, those who are saved though not members of the Catholic Church, are still saved through the Church, (One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic) even though they do not recognize the fullness of the Church. (through no fault of their own.)

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

So, those who are saved though not members of the Catholic Church, are still saved through the Church, (One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic) even though they do not recognize the fullness of the Church. (through no fault of their own.)

Now what would be considered through no fault of their own?

 

[mrpathetic]

Think of individuals living in some primitive tribe in the Amazon Jungle. They have no contact with the outside world, and have never been evangelized. No missionary has ever spoken to them. So they have never heard the word of the Lord.

Could these individuals be saved? Possibly, if they live according to the Natural Law, which God has written in their hearts.

But this is likely less and less true, in the modern world. We live in a world with global communications and connectivity. Certainly there are still those who have never been exposed to the Gospels. But this is a situation that this is probably very rare today. Most individuals who are not Catholic have heard the Word of the Lord, and chosen not to respond. For these individuals who reject the true Word, there can be no hope of salvation.

 

[Dorothy]

Now what would be considered through no fault of their own?

Those who were brought up in Christian denominations and truly believe it is the right way they are practicing. God knows their hearts. I think we all know beautiful Christians who give a great example of Christlikeness.

And there are those who live in remote places that have not yet heard the Gospel, but live rightly according to the light (grace) God gives them.

 

[paul_c]

Those who were brought up in Christian denominations and truly believe it is the right way they are practicing. God knows their hearts. I think we all know beautiful Christians who give a great example of Christlikeness.

And there are those who live in remote places that have not yet heard the Gospel, but live rightly according to the light (grace) God gives them.

I agree with you that there are many moral non-Catholic Christians, who try to do their best to follow the teachings of Christ. But I hedge a bit, because it seems to me that by being Protestants, they are clearly “protesting” against God’s church. Some clearly don’t think through what that means, but does that make them culpable for not understanding their faith? And does it further limit their ability to find God and to truly know his will? I guess one could argue convincingly that not everyone has the ability to understand the nuances of doctrine and perhaps those more simple among us are to be saved by following the natural law within their hearts. But this would not extend to those that have the intellectual capacity, but not the inclination to pursue the knowledge of God. I think these will be condemned for their indifference

And what of those that do consider the fact that they are protesting against God’s church and continue on that path? This type is inevitably hostile toward Catholicism because by definition, they need to justify their staying outside the church. Does this make them culpable?