Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[Agabriel]

I’m not an expert on Islam by any means, but I find the way that many here approach the topic without even trying to understand it on its own terms fairly despicable. But you don’t care about what I think, so I’ll be off.

We have tried to understand. And what is your point? You accuse me of something and then you say ‘many here’?

What are you not reading in my posts? I have ALREADY SAID THAT THEY ARE OK WITH THE BEHAVIOR MUHAMMED EXHIBITED. Your notes are all over the place.

It is apparent that maybe you should ask yourself how much you have studied in Islam before making judgements on others. Now, here is the difference between you and me - I don’t care to ask you even if you have attempted to read the Quran, or any of its history - especially of Jihad.

You are trying to tell, whenever you don’t like the message, that they are the ones that are wrong.

Most of the Muslims on these threads don’t even know that Muhammed was a pagan before thinking up Islam. Most don’t even know that Allah was one of many gods in the Kabaa, and his fellow pagans would do the same rites (without clothes though) around the kabaa that the Muslims do now. Most cannot even read their own texts and read that Muhammed was the one who harassed others in Mecca.

They refuse to even accept it, and they are obviously refusing to read their own texts and this is why I said what I said about them being too lazy since it is available online to them if they don’t have all what they need in a book format.

But, I have also posted (maybe not recently) that I know that leaving Islam for them is probably something we cannot even imagine. They leave family and friends and at the very least are exiled, at the very most they are tortured and killed. So, it is why they lapse into the mode that they do and just post off the wall stuff that is just denial about Islam.

Here in America they don’t have to be killed, well, sometimes since we are hearing about more and more ‘honor killings’ due to some being ‘Westernized’. But, they are indeed banned from their family to be on their own. The Caner brothers have some videos out about that explaining what happened to them. Ask morningstar who is a member of this forum. He posted that he is a Christian in secret and has to be careful.

 

[elwill]

Most of the Muslims on these threads don’t even know that Muhammed was a pagan before thinking up Islam. Most don’t even know that Allah was one of many gods in the Kabaa, and his fellow pagans would do the same rites (without clothes though) around the kabaa that the Muslims do now. Most cannot even read their own texts and read that Muhammed was the one who harassed others in Mecca.

They refuse to even accept it, and they are obviously refusing to read their own texts and this is why I said what I said about them being too lazy since it is available online to them if they don’t have all what they need in a book format.

well , i’m one of those muslims whom don’t know that muhammed (pbuh) was pagan , so inform me about his paganism from our texts which we didn’t read

regarding to our God “allah” i agree with you that allah was known for arabs (pagans and christians and jews) that allah is the unseen God who created the universe and there was no image or idoles for him
by the way “allah” was known in arabia as a God of the prophet abraham (pbuh)

do you know that “allaha” means God in aramic language (original language of jesus (pbuh)) ?

 

[Agabriel]

well , i’m one of those muslims whom don’t know that muhammed was pagan , so inform me about his paganism from our texts which we didn’t read regarding to our God “allah” i agree with you that allah was known for arabs (pagans and christians and jews) that allah is the unseen God who created the universe and there was no image or idoles for him by the way “allah” was known in arabia as a God of the prophet abraham (pbuh)

do you know that “allaha” means God in aramic language (original language of jesus (pbuh)) ?

We have gone over the ‘allah’ meaning God in Aramaic many times on different threads. That is not what they used and it is just an attempt to try to associate the God of Israel with your allah. Some buy it - I am one of those who do not. It sounds similar but they are not the same.

Tabari VI:110 “Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of ‘Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.’ the words: ‘are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division! They are but names which you and your fathers have given.’ to the words: 'to whom he wills and accepts.” [Qur’an 53:21]

As for the pantheon of gods and goddesses that were a part of the pagan religion of Muhammed - three are indeed mentioned in the Quran - his three daughters. It is in surah 53 where they are mentioned, but Muhammed changed his mind on including them. So, these are some of what are considered the ‘Satanic verses’. But, there were many more gods and goddesses of this religion.

Anyone who questions this should question why was these three put in at all? Why, or how could, Muhammed be so easily tricked by the devil to include these goddesses? but, I am sure this is heard quite often and there is aan excuse that will follow.

Another telling thing was the name of Muhammed’s father - Abdallah which means servent of allah. The pagans used to dance around it naked, and now muslims don a white garb and are naked underneath it while they worship this black stone. One Muslim said this is done because it is said to have a conscience and will speak for them on Judgement Day. black rock

From what I have been noticing the best information I get are from former Muslims. The Caner brothers, Walid Shoebat, Nonie Darwish, and a number of other notables are high on my list. Muslims themselves are very reluctant to delve into their history or ‘come clean’ as to what some things are in Islam - like that link to the black rock where the former Muslim brings up it having a conscience. A rock.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by jakasaki
Koran - chapter 9 :29-30
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old, i.e. Kafirs. . Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they !

Once again, to fight against the perverted Christians for saying that Christ is Lord. There is no lord but allah and mohamad is his messenger.

Hi Pam! Religion of peace indeed! And there are still many people who think we have nothing to worry about.

Where did you find the tafsir you’re using in your posts?

Vickie

**Jakasaki, Please understand that Islam does not give order to fight any peaceful christian or peaceful Jew. You cannot show even one verse from the Quran where it is allowed to fight or kill any peaceful non-believer, dis believer.

That payng Jizyah was necessary because war was bring imposed upon the muslims from the east and the west. It was necessary to know the friend or foe. Moreover, those who paid Jizyah were under official protection of the Islamic state from all attacks.

Please remember that the word kafir is not any simple non-believer. There is no problem if any one does not believe in Muhammad. But to fight the religion of Peace is forbidden. It is same for Judaism and christianity. They also had Kaafirs. There were enemies of Moses who were kafir. there were enemies of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus. They were kafir.

Similarly, there were enemies of Muhammad who are called kafir. The Jews can say Uzair is son of God. Christians can say that Jesus is son of God. Then there will be at least two sons of god. Jacob was also called the son of God, rather the first born. There is no problem to Islam by youir calling Jesus as son of God.

Muslims will oppose you on that matter and they will present the right thing to you. But Muslims will not fight you on that matter. You keep on believing that Jesus is son of God. That is no harm to any of us Muslims. We will deny what you are saying. That is all.

But if we take up arms to fight against you on just some bad beliefs, that will not be right. So you have both B L and jakasaki to show me any verse of the Quran which tells to fight or kill any peaceful person of any faith. Kafir is already on war path.**

 

[elwill]

We have gone over the ‘allah’ meaning God in Aramaic many times on different threads. That is not what they used and it is just an attempt to try to associate the God of Israel with your allah. Some buy it - I am one of those who do not. It sounds similar but they are not the same.

Tabari VI:110 “Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of ‘Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.’ the words: ‘are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division! They are but names which you and your fathers have given.’ to the words: 'to whom he wills and accepts.” [Qur’an 53:21]

As for the pantheon of gods and goddesses that were a part of the pagan religion of Muhammed - three are indeed mentioned in the Quran - his three daughters. It is in surah 53 where they are mentioned, but Muhammed changed his mind on including them. So, these are some of what are considered the ‘Satanic verses’. But, there were many more gods and goddesses of this religion.

Anyone who questions this should question why was these three put in at all? Why, or how could, Muhammed be so easily tricked by the devil to include these goddesses? but, I am sure this is heard quite often and there is aan excuse that will follow.

why you quote quran for me ? you didn’t address my question
you said
Most of the Muslims on these threads don’t even know that Muhammed was a pagan before thinking up Islam

so i asking you to inform me about paganism of mohammed (pbuh) pre-islam , or to be specific before quran and before his prophethood

what do you know about mohammed (pbuh) before his thinking up islam ?

 

[elwill]

**Jakasaki, Please understand that Islam does not give order to fight any peaceful christian or peaceful Jew. You cannot show even one verse from the Quran where it is allowed to fight or kill any peaceful non-believer, dis believer.

That payng Jizyah was necessary because war was bring imposed upon the muslims from the east and the west. It was necessary to know the friend or foe. Moreover, those who paid Jizyah were under official protection of the Islamic state from all attacks.

Please remember that the word kafir is not any simple non-believer. There is no problem if any one does not believe in Muhammad. But to fight the religion of Peace is forbidden. It is same for Judaism and christianity. They also had Kaafirs. There were enemies of Moses who were kafir. there were enemies of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus. They were kafir.

Similarly, there were enemies of Muhammad who are called kafir. The Jews can say Uzair is son of God. Christians can say that Jesus is son of God. Then there will be at least two sons of god. Jacob was also called the son of God, rather the first born. There is no problem to Islam by youir calling Jesus as son of God.

Muslims will oppose you on that matter and they will present the right thing to you. But Muslims will not fight you on that matter. You keep on believing that Jesus is son of God. That is no harm to any of us Muslims. We will deny what you are saying. That is all.

But if we take up arms to fight against you on just some bad beliefs, that will not be right. So you have both B L and jakasaki to show me any verse of the Quran which tells to fight or kill any peaceful person of any faith. Kafir is already on war path.**

good saying
just wanna to add that quran actually is very clear about this matter

in chapter almomtahena
8 - God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.
9 - God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

 

[Sam_777]

tomarin;5163279:

I don’t think I ever said you were prejudiced. I think I asked you to consider the possibility that you were stereotyping

.

In all honesty tomarin, I don’t believe this “stereotype” issue with user/member Grace.

He/she is one of the most gracious and charitable users. If you have a problem with this user well then you have a problem with all of us.

Ditto that .

 

[GraceDK]

good saying
just wanna to add that quran actually is very clear about this matter

in chapter almomtahena
8 - God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.
9 - God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

Hi elwill.
I haven’t seen you here before. Nice to meet you. Maybe you could introduce your self to us so we know where you come from both culturally and in terms of religious background… ?
I don’t know about the paganism question. To me its clear that Muhammad wanted to present his religion as a very monotheistic one and has only a problem with this in the verses that have become known as the “satanic verses”, where he advocated the acceptance of three godesses, and later withdrew this revelation saying it was a temptation from the devil.

As for your other points: Yes, I think most of us are aware that “Allah” simply means God or *The God * in Arabic, which is why also our Christian brothers in the Middle East say “Allah”. However the person being adressed is of course different in the two religions since your Allah claims not to have a Son and our God says He does indeed…
At any rate, I consequently use the word God for the Judeo-Christian God and *Allah *for the god of the Muslims, in order to be clear in the discussions.

You say that the Koran only advocates war against unbelievers if they fight the Muslims first, like self defence. But I would like to direct your attention to this sura and hear your comment:

Koran: Sura 9. 30:
Fight against those from the the people of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the last day, and who dont hold that forbidden which Allah and his Messenger has forbidden, and who dont follow the religion of truth, until they pay tribut and submit.

It’s clear from this passage that its purely agressive and generel. It’s in no context of legitimate selfdefense, but only with the aim of using power to submit people of other beliefs. And every Jew, Christian and pagan fits into the target here. We don’t believe in your god, nor in his prophet muhammad, we dont follow islam and we wont pay any tribut or submit to sharia and califath… So as far as I see, you as a Muslim have a divine decree to fight me, make me submit and make me pay taxes… Or??

I have been scolded by some Muslims here for quoting Hadith, because those individuals were not mainstream Muslims and did not see authority in Hadith. Please tell me from the beginning if you also only accept Koran as authority.

Peace and salaam

 

[GraceDK]

**tomarin;
Political correctness and careful, rational thought are not the same thing, Grace. If I see someone post something that looks like non-sense to me, aren’t I entitled to ask them a few questions? If what they’re saying is evidently true, I’m sure they will be able to persuade me to see things their way. **

Of course. But there is an generel criticism aimed at your own brothers here for generalizing. It’s almost like you are our spindoctor whom we didnt hire but who constantly offers his oppinion. I would much prefer that you to constructively address the questions with a serious study into the Koran and Hadith. You are right to critisise if someone is repeatedly unconstructive in your eyes, but it seems it’s all you do.
I can be critical too. For one thing I am not too fund of the sarcasm that some of our brothers and sisters use here… it’s neither charitable or good argumentation.

It means that I attributed that to an honest mistake on Hadi’s part. I have no reason to think she’s a dishonest person.

Hadi sat down and wrote 2-300 words constructing a news article which was a fraud in order to discredit Christians. It’s one thing to wish something would back one’s case, but to sit down and actually write a lie and then post it, to me, is no “honest mistake”. Hadi apologised but did not seem to acknowlege that it was a serious thing she had done and one that undermines her future posts in discusssions about religious and moral truth.

I have been reading the Qu’ran recently (re-reading it actually), and it is bracing. I don’t know that everything you’ve written above is in it, in plain terms that cannot be contested in one way or another. I’ve seen verses that seem to be saying what you’re alleging, and ones that seem to contradict it (with the exception of the Jesus is God part of course; Muslims simply don’t believe Jesus is God).

Very well, then we need your knowlege and your quotes when you discuss against something. Don’t just say: “Hey, you probably quoted out of context”, but rather: “I read the Koran, and what you desribe was part of this and that context which makes the result different…see.”

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi Pam! Religion of peace indeed! And there are still many people who think we have nothing to worry about.

Where did you find the tafsir you’re using in your posts?

Vickie

Vickie,
Im very surprised at you. You know islam is the religion of peace… as in…
Please
Explode
A
Christian
Effectively

 

[jakasaki]

**Jakasaki, Please understand that Islam does not give order to fight any peaceful christian or peaceful Jew. You cannot show even one verse from the Quran where it is allowed to fight or kill any peaceful non-believer, dis believer.

That payng Jizyah was necessary because war was bring imposed upon the muslims from the east and the west. It was necessary to know the friend or foe. Moreover, those who paid Jizyah were under official protection of the Islamic state from all attacks.

Please remember that the word kafir is not any simple non-believer. There is no problem if any one does not believe in Muhammad. But to fight the religion of Peace is forbidden. It is same for Judaism and christianity. They also had Kaafirs. There were enemies of Moses who were kafir. there were enemies of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus. They were kafir.

Similarly, there were enemies of Muhammad who are called kafir. The Jews can say Uzair is son of God. Christians can say that Jesus is son of God. Then there will be at least two sons of god. Jacob was also called the son of God, rather the first born. There is no problem to Islam by youir calling Jesus as son of God.

Muslims will oppose you on that matter and they will present the right thing to you. But Muslims will not fight you on that matter. You keep on believing that Jesus is son of God. That is no harm to any of us Muslims. We will deny what you are saying. That is all.

But if we take up arms to fight against you on just some bad beliefs, that will not be right. So you have both B L and jakasaki to show me any verse of the Quran which tells to fight or kill any peaceful person of any faith. Kafir is already on war path.**

**Planten, it is against the forum rules to modify ones answer. **Please do not modify my answers and change the words when you quote some one.

This is what I quoted from the koran.

Koran - chapter 9 :29-30
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. **They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. **Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

And this is what you inserted in my post:.

Originally Posted by jakasaki
Koran - chapter 9 :29-30
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old,** i.e. Kafirs. **. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they !

Once again, to fight against the perverted Christians for saying that Christ is Lord. There is no lord but allah and mohamad is his messenger.

:tsktsk:

If you have a problem with the website : searthtruth.com - they have a “contact us” link. Please correct them that their verse is wrong and that their tafsir is wrong.

30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. **They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. **Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
31 They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=9&translator=4

 

[Booklover]

Vickie,
Im very surprised at you. You know islam is the religion of peace… as in…
Please
Explode
A
Christian
Effectively

True!

Vickie

 

[qui_est_ce]

**Planten, it is against the forum rules to modify ones answer. **Please do not modify my answers and change the words when you quote some one.

This is what I quoted from the koran.

And this is what you inserted in my post:.

:tsktsk:

This is more serious than :tsktsk:. I would report to mods and ask them to remove the post, as it reflects on your credibility. Lying is not ok.

 

[jakasaki]

This is more serious than :tsktsk:. I would report to mods and ask them to remove the post, as it reflects on your credibility. Lying is not ok.

Thanks Christine - I know I should report it, but I won’t. I trust that planten won’t do it again.

Best regards,
Pam

 

[Agabriel]

why you quote quran for me ? you didn’t address my question
you said
Most of the Muslims on these threads don’t even know that Muhammed was a pagan before thinking up Islam

so i asking you to inform me about paganism of mohammed pre-islam , or to be specific before quran and before his prophethood

what do you know about mohammed before his thinking up islam ?

Muhammed was about 40 when he started his religion. What do you think he was before this? He was a pagan. He was not a Jew, nor was he a Christian. The Arabs, before islam was introduced, worshipped Allah and many other gods and goddesses. The kabaa was a place where the statue of Allah resided. Muhammed is the one who destroyed it. Also, Muhammed is the one who made the Kabaa the place where the Muslims pray towards, and they go and pilgrimage to it and do other things around it and the black rock.

Muhammed was born to a woman whose husband died - Abdallah (which means servant of Allah - this should give you a clue that Allah was around way before Islam was thought up by Muhammed since his dead father was called the servant of Allah). She handed him to a wet nurse when he was a baby and the wet nurse handed him back to the mother after about two years because she said he had ‘fits’.

His mother died when he was about 5 or 6 years old and an uncle took care of them after that. His uncle is referred to in the hadiths when the elders of Mecca asked that Muhammed stop harassing them and defaming their religion and ways.

There is a lot that is not known, but a lot that is known. I don’t write every detail about Muhammed but there must have been some sort of a problem with Muhammed and his mother since he cursed her when he visited her grave many years later. I am sure there was abandonment issues. A young boy cannot understand everything when a mother dies and maybe thought she abandoned him.

You know, your post is very aggravating. Why don’t you look these things up yourself. Maybe you should ask yourself why don’t the Muslims know more about Muhammed’s early life? Why is it such a big deal that they are hush hush about Muhammed being a pagan.

'We have been told that the Apostle of Allah once mentioned al-Uzza saying,
“I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people.”

   In the statement above Muhammad clearly admits his past adherence to [paganism](http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Muhammad%20the%20Pagan.html)

• the then religion of the Quraysh.

 

[planten]

**Algabriel, do you know what was your Jesus before he started his preachings at the age of 30?? If you do not know then find out about that first and leave Muhammad alone. Because it is not good to attack some one if you are guilty of similar thing. I hope you understand these things. You please look after the business of your own god.

I have seen that most of you are defeated and you have no real arguments to face any one. If some one makes a bad translation of the verses of the Quran then i am entitled to present the correct translations. But people are crying due to that.
**

 

[elwill]

Hi elwill.
I haven’t seen you here before. Nice to meet you. Maybe you could introduce your self to us so we know where you come from both culturally and in terms of religious background… ?

hi GraceDK , im from arab muslims , from egypt if you interest

I don’t know about the paganism question. To me its clear that Muhammad wanted to present his religion as a very monotheistic one and has only a problem with this in the verses that have become known as the “satanic verses”, where he advocated the acceptance of three godesses, and later withdrew this revelation saying it was a temptation from the devil.

I strongly recommend visiting Islamic Awareness’ article which proves that the entire story of the so-called “satanic verses” is a lie
islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html

after you read this article
and for the sake of discussion , if we supposed that this incident happened , so this is my response , and from quran either

“Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but God will CANCEL anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth): And that those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Quran) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily God is the Guide of those who believe, to the Straight Way. Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster. (The Noble Quran, 22:52-55)”

1- GOD Almighty “Cancels anything (vain) that satan throws in.” Satan will never prevail, nor will he be able to overpower GOD Almighty’s Divine Will.

2-The reason why GOD Almighty allowed satan to temporarily deceive some of the Prophets was to test them and to show them how to overcome satan and his evil.

3-Satan’s temptations to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him never survived in the Noble Quran. None of the “satanic verses” survived in the Noble Quran

that’s all assuming that the fabricated lie is true from the first place

You say that the Koran only advocates war against unbelievers if they fight the Muslims first, like self defence. But I would like to direct your attention to this sura and hear your comment:

Koran: Sura 9. 30:
Fight against those from the the people of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the last day, and who dont hold that forbidden which Allah and his Messenger has forbidden, and who dont follow the religion of truth, until they pay tribut and submit.

It’s clear from this passage that its purely agressive and generel. It’s in no context of legitimate selfdefense, but only with the aim of using power to submit people of other beliefs. And every Jew, Christian and pagan fits into the target here. We don’t believe in your god, nor in his prophet muhammad, we dont follow islam and we wont pay any tribut or submit to sharia and califath… So as far as I see, you as a Muslim have a divine decree to fight me, make me submit and make me pay taxes… Or??

Before I explain why Allah Almighty ordered the Muslims to fight the Pagans and the People of the Book until they all either submit to Islam or pay the “Jizyah”, I’d like to point out that many people were exempt from the “Jizyah” or “taxes”:

The Jizya tax guarantees the Christians and Jews complete protection under the Islamic state. If an enemy country attacks the Islamic country, the Islamic country has a duty to defend the Christians and Jews and the Christians and Jews are not even obliged to fight!

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of “Zakah” to the “Muslim Financial Institute” or the “House of the Muslim Money” which all goes to provide welfare to the poor and the needy citizens; from both Muslims and non-Muslims. The poor and the needy (such as the Orphans, Widows and the disabled) from the Muslims are exempt from paying taxes.

The non-Muslims have to pay a varrying amount under the name of “Jizyah” depending on their situation, which is taxes that don’t go to help poor and needy Muslims, but instead, it goes to the government to (1) Provide protection for them since they are a minority; (2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by building Temples or Churches for them.

nonmuslims might use Surah 9:29 to show that Muslims must fight them until they pay the Jizya, so this shows discrimination. However, this also applies to the Muslims who do not pay their Zakat! Abu Bakr fought against the Muslims who didn’t pay Zakat. So how does this discriminate against the Christians and Jews?

This is completely justified. If they go against the Islamic rule and government they deserve to be punished. In America if someone does not pay their taxes they can go to jail.

I have been scolded by some Muslims here for quoting Hadith, because those individuals were not mainstream Muslims and did not see authority in Hadith. Please tell me from the beginning if you also only accept Koran as authority.

Peace and salaam

well ,i’m sunni muslim and i believe in sahih of ahadeeth , don’t bring me hadeeth which known to be forged to muslims because i believe that there is many forged ahdeeth either

 

[planten]

** Very nice post by this Elwill muslim from Egypt. Welcome Elwill. have a good time teaching a little bit of real Islam to these Catholics. Thanks**.

 

[elwill]

Muhammed was about 40 when he started his religion. What do you think he was before this? He was a pagan. He was not a Jew, nor was he a Christian. The Arabs, before islam was introduced, worshipped Allah and many other gods and goddesses. The kabaa was a place where the statue of Allah resided. Muhammed is the one who destroyed it. Also, Muhammed is the one who made the Kabaa the place where the Muslims pray towards, and they go and pilgrimage to it and do other things around it and the black rock.

then it’s your personal assumption then that he was pagan because the arabs were pagan ?
when you said that most of muslims dosn’t read thier texts !!! , you just gave me impression that may be you are more knowledgable than muslims themselfs !!!

You know, your post is very aggravating. Why don’t you look these things up yourself. Maybe you should ask yourself why don’t the Muslims know more about Muhammed’s early life? Why is it such a big deal that they are hush hush about Muhammed being a pagan.

my question was specified to mention me about his paganism life before islam as you alleged , not about his birth

'We have been told that the Apostle of Allah once mentioned al-Uzza saying,
“I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people.”

   In the statement above Muhammad clearly admits his past adherence to [paganism](http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Muhammad%20the%20Pagan.html)

• the then religion of the Quraysh.
  who told whom ?
  can you give me islamic source for that

edited
i made my research on this hadeeth , it considered to be forged hadeeth becuse it was narrated by just one man called “alkalbi” and he mentioned it without any isnad

 

[Agabriel]

**Algabriel, do you know what was your Jesus before he started his preachings at the age of 30?? If you do not know then find out about that first and leave Muhammad alone. Because it is not good to attack some one if you are guilty of similar thing. I hope you understand these things. You please look after the business of your own god.

I have seen that most of you are defeated and you have no real arguments to face any one. If some one makes a bad translation of the verses of the Quran then i am entitled to present the correct translations. But people are crying due to that.
**

Jesus was a Jew. No one disputes that.

Maybe you should take another look at the title of this thread.

Telling what Muhammed was before the age of 40 is not an attack. Why do you look at it as an attack?

I use the accepted translations of the Quran and hadiths and I have them all downloaded to my PC last year. I even have a book of Bukhari’s hadiths and Ibn Ishaq’s ‘The Life of Muhammad’.

All of these are downloaded to my PC that I use:
-5 of 6 accepted translations of the hadiths: Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abudawud, Malik’s Muwatta and not mentioned Dawud
-5 accepted translations of the koran: Urdu, Yusuf Ali, Mohsin Khan, Shakir, Pickthal

I also have the book, ‘Foundation of Islam, Sharia Law’.

Now when you are able to put references on your own junk and stop your complaining all the time - that might be helpful.

So stop your squirming and baseless accusations - grow up. It gets tiring.