Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

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Forgive me for intervening, but ive only joined up today and have been reading the threads to this topic. By no means do i mean to disrepsect any one as i believe God gives us free will to believe in what we want. However God has told us what he wants us to do and how to live!

I don’t understand why you are not familiar with the life of Muhammed and you are supposed to be a Muslim. It is a dangerous thing for one to follow and particiapte in a faith he has no knowledge about, you make yourself vulnerable allowing yourself to be decieved.
if your question forwarded to me

i think that i have more knowledge about my prophet than nonmuslims , most of thoses who critices mohammed (pbuh) with general words gain thier knowledge from anti_islamic and hatred and biased sites , such sites are not honest in representing the entire or the complete situation .
thier purpose is to slander our prophet (pbuh) .

that’s why i have no responding when i’m asking about islamic sources , islamic source will represent the truth as it is with complete view , it will hard for them to quote from it

if you think that i’m ignorant about my prophet’s life , then teach me . but be aware that i will learn it from islamic sites .
 
GraceDK , thank you for you responding
i have to leave my work now , i will catch you later
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

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ive only joined up today
Welcome to the forum 🙂
why you are not familiar with the life of Muhammed and you are supposed to be a Muslim.
:confused:

Who are not familiar with the life of the Last Prophet ?

You may be a Christian Protestant, Catholic, Jew, an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to any of many different religious denominations existing in today’s world.

You might even be a coummunist or believe in man’s democracy as the rule on earth.
Whoever you are and whatever ideological or political beliefs, social habits you may hold, there is no doubt -

You Must Know This MAN - MUHAMMAD (peace be upon him).

islamtomorrow.com/muhammad
 
Examples:
Moral failure:
  • Sleeping with a 9 year old girl, practicing polygami and wife beating: Sura 4: 34
this is valid issue for further discussion
  • The obligation for a rape victim to produce 4 witnesses which today means that many women are in prison in Muslim countries because they were raped but not able to point to 4 witnesses. So these women are in prison for fornication, while they are in actual fact the victims. This IS BARBARITY… straight from the Koran: Sura 24: 13
    ETC…
wrong , the verse is talking about adultery not rape
Scientific errors:
  • Koran states that Muhammed saw the sun descend into a muddy pond( Sura 18: 88)
    ETC.
i will give you the chance to check your knowledge on that , all what you need is to read the verses to find out your faults
by the way , i can see the sun descend into the sea every day , i hope if you smart enough to realize what i mean 😛
Historical errors:
The koran
-confuses the immediate family of Jesus and Mary with the family of Moses and Aron.
when i call "moslem woman " saying to her : my sister
it dosn’t mean that i even know her parents , it will mean that she is my sister in religion .
  • denies the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth although the crucifixion is well-documented in non-christian historical sources.
i don’t know how you consider that to be proofs , historical decumentation about jesus are various and contradicting each other , so that we even can’t to be sure which of them wrote the truth
  • In the Koran pharoah is threatening the magicians with crucifixion, a form of punishment that did not exist in ancient Egypt but only much later in the Roman empire. ( Sura 26; 45-49)
you think that arabic word for crucifixion used in the Qur’an refers to a cross-shaped instrument of execution" without any attempt to look into the etymological dictionaries. Edward Lane’s comprehensive An Arabic-English Lexicon has a three-page long discussion of the root word Ṣ-L-B, most of it is concentrated on the usage to mean “hard”, “firm”, etc. While dealing with the issue of crucifixion, Lane says: "[He crucified him;] he put him to death in a certain well-known manner…because the oily matter, and the ichor mixed with blood, of the person so put to death flows

1-The root word Ṣ-L-B derives from bone, more specifically the backbone.
2-Ṣ-L-B is also used to denote hardness in a true as well as a metaphoric sense.
3-Cooking the bones and extracting the greasy or fatty matter from it (wadak) - this action is called iṣtalaba, a word which comes from the root Ṣ-L-B.
4-More importantly, ṣalb, commonly translated as “crucifixion”, comes from the root Ṣ-L-B and is derived from it because the wadak of the dead and his ichor (i.e., thin watery or blood-tinged discharge) leaks.

In summary, the mention of crucifixion in the Qur’an comes from the root Ṣ-L-B and it has no connotations of a cross or its shape. Rather it indicates any method of execution which makes the body stiffened or hardened (as any movement would cause excruciating pain) and results in leaking of bodily fluids. Therefore, crucifixion by impalement and other forms of crucifixion are included here without making any distinction between them.

This was pointed out by David Chapman in his recent study of crucifixion in antiquity. He says:

… in studying the ancient world the scholar is wise not to differentiate too rigidly the categories of “crucifixion,” “impalement,” and “suspension” (as if these were clearly to be distinguished in every instance). Hence any study of crucifixion conceptions in antiquity must grapple with the broader context of the wide variety of penal suspension of human beings.[4]
  • Koran says that a samaritan helped built the golden calf at Sinai, but it’s an historical fact that samaria did not exist prior to the existence of Israel and the calf-episode took place before the chosen people walked into the promised land, Israel.
which verse is this ?
Now, we do not say God wrote the Bible. Your problem is that one error in the Koran proves that Almighty God certainly was not the author.
👍 i agree
just find for me one single error in quran with undoubtfull proofs
Christian faith is not in a Book but in a PERSON, Jesus Christ.
I have shown fault in your book. You cannot show any fault in Jesus Christ who is the full revelation of the Living God. If we compare religions we must compare them to this finality, Christ versus Muhammad
and Christ versus the Koran
Jesus is the one we believe in as the TRUTH and DIVINITY, and there is no error in His mouth nor evil actions by His holy Hands.
i agree with every single word you said about jesus (pbuh) but to be God , and you are right i cannot show you any faults in jesus christ , i love jesus christ and his mother (pbut) , and i see them as to be perfect standard for human being 🙂
 
**elwill;

this is valid issue for further discussion **

Good, let’s discuss it. Would you like to have your own 9 year old daughter ravished by a 40 year old man? And don’t tell me the little girl enjoyed this or had the will and knowlege to accept.
Is this really worthy of imitation Elwill? You know that in a lot of islamic countries there are men who marry children because of the very doubtful example of Muhammad. As for the wife beating… look at this program from Qatar. The Muslim man who acts as the defender of the Koran here is sick in his mind by any standard. He so openly degrades women using islamic sources…
youtube.com/watch?v=0nUI3TUdFCk
Jesus said: “Treat others like you want them to treat you”. Its that simple Elwill. From a Christian perspective polygamy is antithetical to the essential nature of marriage: a lifetime covenant between one man and one woman, a total self-gift to another, becoming one flesh, entering into a life of sacrificial love which is by its very nature exclusive.
The example from Muhammad is therefore a horror to the Christian mindfulness of the Holiness of marriage and holiness of God.
Muhammad took the wife of his son even, causing divorse and adultery according to Christian thought where a marriage is a covenant for life.

wrong , the verse is talking about adultery not rape

My point was the witnesses that Muhammad demanded. When you do a crime you do it hidden and you prey upon your victim. There will never be 4 witnesses to fornication nor to adultery, yet all over the islamic world young women are being stoned and whipped for the sins of muslim men. How can this be just? 4 witnesses… come on Elwill. again… think about a woman you love, ask if this is fair…, or even think about the treatment you would like for your self…

i will give you the chance to check your knowledge on that , all what you need is to read the verses to find out your faults
by the way , i can see the sun descend into the sea every day , i hope if you smart enough to realize what i mean 😛


Well, you will say its a symbol of course but in the Koran its written as something else… Also, another historical error is that the Koran claims that Alexander the Great was a Muslim (Sura 18: 89-98) However, Alexander was not even a monotheist. If God had written the Koran there would not have been such a historical error.
As for the dirty pond… it says pond and not sea in my edition of the Koran.

when i call "moslem woman " saying to her : my sister
it dosn’t mean that i even know her parents , it will mean that she is my sister in religion .


This is a non-argument. The case is so clear. Aron, Moses and Maryam in the Old Testament were siblings. To call Jesus’ Mother “Arons sister” points to a blatant misunderstanding on Muhammads part. He mixed up these individuals who had lived thousands years apart. He did not know sufficient about the Old Testament nor the New… Please… if you want to still make this claim, Elwill, show me one single place in the Koran where another woman or man is called “brother of Aron” or “sister of Aron”. Then I will take my critiq back.

Continued…
 
elwill;
i don’t know how you consider that to be proofs , historical decumentation about jesus are various and contradicting each other , so that we even can’t to be sure which of them wrote the truth
.

Please tell me which two of the non-christian historical sources that contradict each other? I am not so sure you can but at the same time I want to respect your arguments.
Jesus of Nazareth was crucified around year 30 according to secular history science… that means after historic-critizism by even non-christian history scholars there is no doubt that the crucifixion took place. Its even a historical fact that the apostles said Jesus had resurrected and that they, one by one, died in the name of this Truth. Is that not interesting? Who would die for a lie?

you think that arabic word for crucifixion used in the Qur’an refers to a cross-shaped instrument of execution" without any attempt to look into the etymological dictionaries. Edward Lane’s comprehensive An Arabic-English Lexicon In summary

… Hence any study of crucifixion conceptions in antiquity must grapple with the broader context of the wide variety of penal suspension of human beings…


This looks like something merely invented for the sake of muslim apologetics. It’s very clear that the word crucifix in any given time has meant to fix a person to a cross. It’s in the very word… so why these long linguistic explanations that makes absolutely no sense?

**
just find for me one single error in quran with undoubtfull proofs**

Okay. I think the most blatant and eye-cathing one is the fact that Muhammad did not understand the Christian belief in the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but Muhammad mistakenly thought it was Father, Son and Virgin Mary. This is absurd… yet it’s right there, black on white in the Koran… proving that Muhammad had very limited knowlege about Judaism and Christianity and he projected this ignorance onto God.
Another theological reflection for your sensitivity. According to Divine Revelation God created man in the image and likeness of Himself… that means that the Holy Image of God is in man and woman. Yet, in the Koran, I have come across disturbing passages where allah calls human beings for “animals”… this is degrading to God…
I dont know if you can understand that. But if you are a man of sincere inner prayer I think you can.

i agree with every single word you said about jesus (pbuh) but to be God , and you are right i cannot show you any faults in jesus christ , i love jesus christ and his mother (pbut) , and i see them as to be perfect standard for human being 🙂

Jesus said: “Why do you say “Lord, Lord” but you do not do what I say?”.
You say you love Jesus… but what you love is the very small mention of a prophet named Isa in the Koran. Yet Isa/Jesus and Muhammad has absolutely nothing in common. Jesus was a Jewish prophet, doing all the signs required of a true prophet, He knew the Tanack, He has humility and He died the death of a martyr of love. Jesus’ teaching and example was perfect and only GOD is perfect. You cannot find any mere creature who is perfect, neither today nor earlier. Only Jesus… only Jesus. I dare you to ponder this.
Jesus taught holiness, love, humility, mercy, wisdom… and Muhammad broke every command of Christ.
This is the fact Elwill.

Have you read the New Testament? There is Holiness and Dignity, Integrety and Love that surpasses even human understanding.

Peace and salam…
and thanks for staying at work to post what you did. I appreaciate our discussion, and apologise for the times where I was no able to get back to something you wrote…
I do remember that you mentioned something about the crusades though and in that connection I wanted to say: the Muslims were agressors going over a lot of land… look at the Hagia Sophia Church which was made into a mosque when the turks conquered constantinople/Istanbul 1453… This contradicts your words that Muslims have respected Churches…
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

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… Would you like to have your own 9 year old daughter ravished by a 40 year old man? …
You people will never be tired to bring the same subject again & again & again ?? 🤷

Young marriage is not a must in Islam . Also , Now a days , young marriage is banned under men made laws. A western girl of 15/ 16 years old is considered as toooo young for marriage but it’s normal for everyone to accept that she gives birth to love child & now needs to go for a DNA test to find the daddy . No one will be shocked . But , u people just can’t accept a legal marriage . Strange.
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

You people will never be tired to bring the same subject again & again & again ?? 🤷

Young marriage is not a must in Islam . Also , Now a days , young marriage is banned under men made laws. A western girl of 15/ 16 years old is considered as toooo young for marriage but it’s normal for everyone to accept that she gives birth to love child & now needs to go for a DNA test to find the daddy . No one will be shocked . But , u people just can’t accept a legal marriage . Strange.
No, the point behind the whole thing is the age of the child, there is a big difference between a 16 year old and a 9 year old.
Aisha wouldnt even know what sex was, her innocence was taken from her by a 53 year old man.
What is shocking is when old men do marry 8 year olds who are then wanting to get a divorce. Now what do you consider to be more shocking???
 
**elwill;

this is valid issue for further discussion **

Good, let’s discuss it. Would you like to have your own 9 year old daughter ravished by a 40 year old man? And don’t tell me the little girl enjoyed this or had the will and knowlege to accept.
no i will not , the society is differ and responsibilities is differ and culture and requirments of life is differ .
Is this really worthy of imitation Elwill? You know that in a lot of islamic countries there are men who marry children because of the very doubtful example of Muhammad.
no , i don’t know if they did that because of the example of mohammed (pbuh) , if they sincere to take his as an example they should marry women larger than them first , don’t miss " khadija " the first wife for our prophet (pbuh)
anyway we don’t take the example of our prophet in such things as the age of his wifes . as we don’t have to take his example with traveling riding camels as he did , i will prefer to ride my plane 😃
As for the wife beating… look at this program from Qatar. The Muslim man who acts as the defender of the Koran here is sick in his mind by any standard. He so openly degrades women using islamic sources…
youtube.com/watch?v=0nUI3TUdFCk
we are talking about action of mohammed not the action of some men in youtube , tell me how mohammed (pbuh) treated his wives ?
Jesus said: “Treat others like you want them to treat you”. Its that simple Elwill.
i agree , mohammed (pbuh) mentioned us the same advise
From a Christian perspective polygamy is antithetical to the essential nature of marriage: a lifetime covenant between one man and one woman, a total self-gift to another, becoming one flesh, entering into a life of sacrificial love which is by its very nature exclusive.
from islamic point of view
When it comes to the rights of both men and women in Islam, we should believe that Almighty Allah is the JUST and the WISE. So He only gives people what is good for them and only demands what is for their interest and common good. The problem is that we sometimes look very selfishly and try to have all the good for ourselves without looking at the society at large.

As for polygamy, it is allowed in Islam. It is to be used for the purposes for which it is permitted and not to be abused in any case. It is true that Allah permits the man to marry four wives, but if we think in neutral terms and try to investigate the benefit of that without thinking only of our own interests, we will find the wisdom and significance of polygamy.

For example, if a wife puts herself in the shoes of a widow who does not have anyone to care for or look after her, and thinks sincerely of a solution to her problem, she will find that she would love to be a second wife rather than to stay as a widow and continue to suffer the problems in raising children and having the same life as her peers do. So there is always wisdom behind polygamy.
The example from Muhammad is therefore a horror to the Christian mindfulness of the Holiness of marriage and holiness of God.
the example of mhammed (pbuh) concerning the polygamy is the same as most of prophets mentioned on OT
do you think the same about about prophets of God :o
Muhammad took the wife of his son even, causing divorse and adultery according to Christian thought where a marriage is a covenant for life.
mohammed (pbuh) have no sons
wrong , the verse is talking about adultery not rape
My point was the witnesses that Muhammad demanded. When you do a crime you do it hidden and you prey upon your victim. There will never be 4 witnesses to fornication nor to adultery, yet all over the islamic world young women are being stoned and whipped for the sins of muslim men. How can this be just? 4 witnesses… come on Elwill. again… think about a woman you love, ask if this is fair…, or even think about the treatment you would like for your self…
my point was that rape victims not required 4 witnesses , 4 witnesses are required in adultery only , not rape crimes
i will give you the chance to check your knowledge on that , all what you need is to read the verses to find out your faults
by the way , i can see the sun descend into the sea every day , i hope if you smart enough to realize what i mean 😛
Well, you will say its a symbol of course but in the Koran its written as something else…
no it’s not a symbol
it’s exactly what zu elqarnayn saw , he saw the sun descend into a muddy pond , this expression refere to the time and the direction of his journy .
as i said before , i can see the sun descend into the sea every day
Also, another historical error is that the Koran claims that Alexander the Great was a Muslim (Sura 18: 89-98) However, Alexander was not even a monotheist. If God had written the Koran there would not have been such a historical error.
As for the dirty pond… it says pond and not sea in my edition of the Koran.
quran didn’t mention Alexander , quran mentioned Dhul-Qarnayn
may be some of western scholars suggesting that he is alexander , i don’t know why , but quran didn’t mentioned that Dhul-Qarnayn is the same Alexander

continue…
 
when i call "moslem woman " saying to her : my sister
it dosn’t mean that i even know her parents , it will mean that she is my sister in religion .
This is a non-argument. The case is so clear. Aron, Moses and Maryam in the Old Testament were siblings. To call Jesus’ Mother “Arons sister” points to a blatant misunderstanding on Muhammads part. He mixed up these individuals who had lived thousands years apart. He did not know sufficient about the Old Testament nor the New… Please… if you want to still make this claim, Elwill, show me one single place in the Koran where another woman or man is called “brother of Aron” or “sister of Aron”. Then I will take my critiq back.
It turns out that Christians in Najran during the time of the Prophet(P) raised a similar objection and it was answered by the Prophet(P). In Sahih Muslim, the hadith related by Mughirah ibn Shu`bah [5326] says:

When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read “O sister of Harun” (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur’an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah’s Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them.

In the Bible, Elizabeth was called daughters of Aaron(P). Was she literally a daughter of Aaron?

In the days of Herod, King of Judea, there was a priest named Zechari’ah, of the division of Abi’jah; and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. [Luke 1:5, RSV]

Or Jesus(P) was addressed as Son of David in the Bible. Was he literally Son of David(P)?

And the crowds that went before him and that followed him shouted, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!” [Matthew 21:9 RSV]

But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant; [Matthew 21:15 RSV]
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

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To give birth of a love child is always shocking to me …does not matter how old is she. A young wife is not a sinner but the unwed mom is . As a believer , my first priority is not to commit a sin .
I respect that you do not want to sin, but the bottom line is, the age of a child that is married.
Can you honestly say that it is ok for a 9 year old to have sex, when married?
 
**Muslim Woman;
In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

You people will never be tired to bring the same subject again & again & again ?? 🤷

No, we wont… Our conscience bids us to bring it up until every Muslim in the world clearly says: YES its immoral to commit phedophile acts… its immoral for me, its immoral for my leaders and its particularly immoral for my prophets.

**Young marriage is not a must in Islam . Also , Now a days , young marriage is banned under men made laws. **

This means that man made laws are more moral than islamic ones. In Denmark a law was made to prevent forced marriages. Its called the 24 rule, so that a family must not import a strange man from abroad and force their daughter to marry him. This rule was necessary… and today the Muslim girls thank the state for this preventive rule, which has made them capable of chosing more freely, maturely and getting an education. Maybe you would like to be a 12 year old sex slave of some old pig who wanted you in his bed 3 times a week? This is what many slaves suffer in muslim countries…

** A western girl of 15/ 16 years old is considered as toooo young for marriage but it’s normal for everyone to accept that she gives birth to love child & now needs to go for a DNA test to find the daddy . No one will be shocked . But , u people just can’t accept a legal marriage . Strange.**

Actually you are being sarcastic in an unsuiting manner right now. Devoted Christians do not sleep around and need to find out whom the daddy is. According to Christianity phedophilia, fornication, concubinage, sex slaves, multiple wives and adultery are grave sins. That means your prophet is a huge sinner in our eyes.
Does this mean a Christian can not get tempted and fall? Of course she or he can and does… therefore Christ died for our sins, so we can repent, have forgiveness in His Name and be set free from all slavery.

The secular culture in many countries, both muslim and former christian ones, as well the natural weaknesses of men and women, has made sin a universal phenomenon. In my country we have quite a statistic of muslim women who have sex and then go to the doctor to have a fake virginity. These girls will later tell their family and future husband that they are virgins. I see this continual and foundational lie as a bigger problem than the one time fall of a soul into sin. But Islam is based on hypocrisy. You do not admit your own sins and weaknesses nor the ones of the others… unless these others are non-muslims.

Am I shocked and apalled at all kind of sexual sin, yes but more than that my Lord has asked that I have patience with sinners and that I feel sorry for them.
Because, muslim woman, what is sin? Sin is a crime against Love… therefore sin is always a no to God who is Love. But even God pities us when we fall. We fail our own life when we sin…
You too are a lawbreaker, Muslim Woman.
At least in Christianity we are not afraid to be honest and admit our sins and ask for forgiveness so we can be free… So if you want to be shocked and scandalised, always start by being scandalised at your own sins and impurity. The biggest sin according to Christianity, is the sin of pride.

Think about that.
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

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… Our conscience bids us to bring it up
Marriage of Mother Mary (pbuh) , last marriage of God’s son David (pbuh) with a young virgin prove that there is no ban on young marriage & no maximum age is prescribed between spouses in Bible.
This means that man made laws are more moral than islamic ones.
men made laws changes from time to time . Also , men made laws allow young girls to have love kids & unlimited sex partners but the same law does not allow them to have a legal married life approved by God Almigthy.

Muslims surrendered to God . So , InshaAllah , we will never allow our daugthers to have love childs till the last day.
 
Marriage of Mother Mary (pbuh) , last marriage of God’s son David (pbuh) with a young virgin prove that there is no ban on young marriage & no maximum age is prescribed between spouses in Bible.
Both marriages were chaste.
men made laws changes from time to time . Also , men made laws allow young girls to have love kids & unlimited sex partners but the same law does not allow them to have a legal married life approved by God Almigthy.
Muslims surrendered to God . So , InshaAllah , we will never allow our daugthers to have love childs till the last day.
You are living in an insane fantasy world, MW. “Man made laws” cannot restrict girls from having sex at far too young an age, so it is better to follow a prophet who had sex with a 9 year old when he was an old man? How does that make any sense at all?
 
the point is young marriage is valid regarding your own holy book. So , bash a legal marriage using dirtiest words …is it ok ?
No, it is not okay. That’s my point: You cannot compare those chaste marriages from the Bible to the marriage of Muhammad and Ayesha, because that marriage was not chaste. Muhammad began molesting Ayesha when she was 6, and raped her when she was 9. That is not okay.
If God approves something , who are we to object ? Slaves must not challenge God & should say " We hear & We obey ’
I am not objecting to anything that God approves of, but child-rape is not one of those things…!
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

To give birth of a love child is always shocking to me …does not matter how old is she. A young wife is not a sinner but the unwed mom is . As a believer , my first priority is not to commit a sin .
True enough it is a big mistake for the unwed mother. But which is better Condemn the sinner or Correct the sinner?

As a believer on an Ever-faithful God, we are not to condemn those who made mistakes specially those who engaged in illicit, pre- and extra-marital sex that resulted to children out of wedlock. But instead we are asked to reach out, show and convey the message of mercy and love of God towards them.

As a Christian who believe in the Divine Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ (Praise and Glory Be Upon Him) on the cross, my first priority is to BE LIKE HIM…big difference that focus on not to commit sin.
 
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