Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Benjamin8o8
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
lol lol lol , raping kids inside the God’s house & getting married with the approval of bride & permission of her parents --these two are
same ??? How funny.
Well, no there is one difference. While both Mohammed and clergy who committed pedophilia abused their positions of trust as God’s representatives. It is somewhat more demented that Abu Bakr would have approved it while that the modern parents had more sense. Both raped children and a sham marriage doesn’t change that.
Ok , God will tell us on the final day which is a sin & which is not .
He’ll tell us that both were sins. No real mystery there.
woww , no wonder we see thousands & thousands love childs .
It is sad that you see a new life as something bad. Life is always good, even if the acts that lead to it are not.
Again , I can only say , our dispute will be settled down on the final day. God will tell us if it’s ok to have baby after having relationship with multi-partners & to know who is the dad , mom is dragging all her boyfriends for DNA test.
So I take by the above you think it would be better for the mother to have an abortion since the child’s life is a sin.
In Islam , if u enjoy the matter lawfully , u will be rewarded . Adultery/ fornication is a major sin according to God’s law --does not matter if it’s a sin to you or not.
Adultery and fornication are a sin in every religion. Islam is nothing special there. Other religions simply understand God well enough to know that He always approves of life. Most also understand that performing any sinful act while slapping a contract on it, or saying “God said it was OK” makes any less a sin.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Muslims respect all the Prophets , not only Muhammed ( peace be upon them all ). We don’t condemn any Prophet.

josie was asking : would you say Jesus was a holy man,** an example to all human beings on how we should live? ** Ans is No . Jesus (pbuh) was unmarried & had no kids . If people in the past followed him , we were not here to debate about Muhammed (pbuh).

Jesus (pbuh) will get married & have kids after his second coming . So , then u may say that we should follow him as it’s the natural that human should get married , have families etc. BTW God sent His final book to Muhammed (pbuh) , Jesus (pbuh) will follow that Sharia law. He won’t announce that having a young wife is a sin.
When I stated my question I meant to convey his holiness, not the state of his nonmarital status. Whether Jesus was married or not, does not signify. He would have been holy single and/or married, therefore his state of holiness was not dependent on his being married or not.

Secondly, his teachings were meant for married and single people alike. It’s not like He had a different code of conduct for married people and another for single ones.

Thirdly, Jesus never asked anyone to be celibate (unless they so chose), so I don’t understand how you misunderstood my question.

P.S. Since I’m single and chaste, does that mean I cannot follow Mohammed, and as such, I can therefore say he is not a complete example to all of humanity. By these very conditions you do measure Jesus.
 
While I generally approve of the idea of judging our ancestors by the standards of their day and not by our modern perceptions, I think there is still a flaw here in this reasoning. If we’re only judging Mohamed as a warlord or monarch of his time then yes we can wink at his indiscretions. I mean I’ll be the first to admit that as a warlord he wasn’t really that bad of guy. He was certainly reasonably fair in distributing booty amongst his warriors. He also was not all that bad to those he defeated as warlords go.

Muhammed was not a warlord . What does a warlord want any way ? Money? power ? leadership? Ladies ? honor ?`fame? All this was offered to Muhammed by the Meccans in return to stop preaching Islam and he refused. What made him refuse this generous offer if that was his end goal? If this world was what Muhammed wanted , he was already offered the best of it .

However, that is not what he claimed to be. Nor is it what his follower’s claim that he was. No he is the “seal of prophets”. We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless. He is also the best of men and so the best example to follow. The problem is that if he truly was supposed to possess all of these messianic like qualities he must be held to higher standard. The age that he lived in cannot be an excuse for his personal behavior.

There is no human that is sinless. Not even Jesus is said to be sinless in Islamic tradition. And sinlessness doesn’t mean much . Angels are sinless . There are tons of them and they are not God. They are creatures of God. Pious believers who are capable of sin are more worthy to God that a sin free made creature.

Muhammed didn’t do a ‘‘small’’ sin in his time that is ‘‘big’’ in our time. Muhammed married a lady that has become of age of pregnancy . It happens for this specific lady to be 9 . This lady didn’t miss out on anything , no school, sport clubs, or anything. He wasn’t a wicked husband nor an evil man. He asked her family and her family accepted. This lady never complained nor she felt harm. If God thinks ladies shouldn’t get married or give birth at early age he would have made them mature at 18 . Well… he didn’t . Muhammed didn’t go around marrying young girls. Aisha was the only virgin he ever married . He willingly proposed and married older ladies.

If Muhammed wanted to he could have had all he wanted without trouble. He died poor while Islam ruled arabia.

If he was pedophile he would have had all the small girls he wanted . The Meccans already offered him to marry their most beautiful and to make him their richest. And they had no problems with Marrying girls who just reached puberty.

If he was a warlord then why the heck did he refuse their offer for presidency and leadership? why he risked being shunned , boycotted from buying food or water for two years and firmly believing that he will have the help Of God?

Muhammed didn’t commit ANY sin by any level when he married Aisha who reached puberty at the age of 9. Not on a cultural level and not on a religious level.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today? While Mohammed may have been exceptional as a war lord of the ancient world, he leaves much to be desired as an eternal role model for humanity. If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”. If however, we want to claim him as the last and greatest prophet, and to be sinless, then he must be held accountable for his actions.

There is no man that had the responsibilities of Muhammed that would lead a moral life as much as he did. There has been no prophet that has been sent to the whole world except him. There has been no prophet who was faced by armies of his OWN people except him. Muhammed is not sinless. He mas made Mistakes and God has corrected him in the Quran itself. But Prophets do not commit major sins that compromise their character , or else God wouldnt rely on them to deliver his messages.

Even if the claims of Islam about Mohammed were relaxed a great deal it would make a difference. The old Jewish prophets were flawed men. Sometimes it was those very flaws that made their messages powerful. Christian saints have also been flawed individuals. Since Muslims though insist that Mohammed is the best person ever they open him up for scrutiny. The same goes for Jesus, since Christians claim that He was sinless. The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.
The problem that Christians will always have is that the purported qualities of jesus that they think he has if applied would doom the world. Imagine if every thief left uncaptured because the government should forgive him . Or that every man should stay unmarried like Jesus . Or that people wouldn’t rise against tyranny like he didn’t do against the romans. The Huge big problem that renders the understanding of the morality of Jesus is that it is no way applicable. Even jesus seemed to contradict himself by using force to throw the money dealers from the temple instead he should have turned the other cheek for them. The God of Christianity loves both the good and the bad till they both die and then sends one in hell and one in heaven!

Jesus was a prophet ‘‘within’’ the Israleite prophets. He is a subset of nation of Moses which is the nation of Israel. He didn’t come with a law . And his whole task was to reform the jews back on track . That is totallly different from a complete birth of a nation of God under a prophet of God sent to Mankind .
 
Meedo, what sources are you using that mentions Mary age as being 12 yrs?. There is no where in the Gospels that claim that, unless you are interpreting “young women” or “young virign” as meaning 12 yrs. This would be pure speculation on both your part and of those that use it and other verses that Mary’s age must be 12 yrs.

I don’ think there is any speculation as to Aisha’s age, is there?. The hadiths clearly state Mumhammad married Aisha at 6 yrs and consumated the marriage at 9 yrs. My question is why did Muhammad marry Aisha at 6 yrs of age?. I know Aisha was Abu Bakr’s daugther, but why did he do it, was it political?. I know you say it was culturally accepted, but was it cultrually accepted for men of 51 & 53 yrs of age to marry girls of 6 yrs?. Are there other examples of other muslims at the time of Muhammad that did what he did.

Muslims say Allah revealed Aisha to Muhammad in a dream that she was going to be the mother of the belivers, which is fine, but why did he have to marry her, or atleast wait till she was 9 yrs?..
personal note:
personally i think 9 yrs is also very young, i can’t imagine it, but my opinion. I don’t know if you have children esp a daughter, I don’t know if you would find it acceptable. I feel if Muhammad was a universal prophet, then his actions are also universal, wouldn’t you agree??

Seeker
Muhammed rode a camel and a horse. I don’t . Does this mean i am not following his way ? or that for his message to be universal we should all ride horses and camels?

The culture and the circumstances differ by time. what was a lady to do when she has his puberty ? in 7th century arabia? what was there to do ?

It wasnt Muhammed the first one to propose to her and Muhammeds enemies ( who hated him so much ) never ever took this as an issue on him. Muhammed was not a wicked man nor a bad husband. And yes many marriages were at that time to cement relations between families and tribes. was it that way between Muhammed and Abu Bakr ? we don’t know. But all we know is that there is nobody complaining except Christians in the last 300 years !!!
 
Maybe because those who did criticize were killed along with anything they may have written? And knowing this people did not criticize anymore out of fear for their lives? This is just a thought but a possibility (since he did have a few poets killed who had criticized him).
All non believers Critisized Muhammed day and night. Most of the time Muhammed had wars with the non believers they always had the greater numbers and the mightier armies. Were they afraid then as well? Are they not afraid to go to war against him and they are afraid to assassin his character by his marriage to Aisha?

Lets be honest . This argument doesnt make sense.
 
We’re not talking about a young wife. We’re talking about a child, a Holy Book is not needed to state what common sense can dictate. One can look at the psychological damage that is universally caused by pedophilia.
Child , adolescent , lady , woman, female. God created a barrier between bieng an adult and between bieng a non adult from the point of view of bieng taken into account for your actions. This Barrier is puberty. & with puberty God gives humans the capability to reproduce. If he himself though that was too young he would have delayed it.

He didn’t . God approves of things that you might disapprove of . That doesnt mean you are right.
 
Muhammed redefined sin so what he did wasn’t considered a sin.

All the bad things that Muhammed did were done against unbelievers so the Muslims don’t mind it at all. In fact, they look at it as glorious work they do for Allah. That is why the silence when so much violence is directed at unbelievers and we only hear from them when unbelievers strike back at believers - whether they be Hamas or the same sort of ilk.

Good and bad are distorted in Islam. Or maybe I should say that good things in Islam are what we consider bad, or even evil.

When Muhammed had an old man over 100 years old and a young woman who was still breastfeeding her baby assasinated, that is ok because he justified it as being ok. All he did was to say that they were making poems up against Islam and so therefore, killing them is ok.

When Muhammed took his stepson’s wife, that was actually a disturbing thing for many people of the time until Muhammed finally got across the fact that Allah said that it was for him to have her.

Keep in mind that when Muhammed died, many left Islam. The only reason why Islam spread was because of the endless Jihads (wars) and the terror the Jihadists spread. Many of those Muslims that are so brainwashed today had ancestors that were probably cowering in fear because of the Jihadists and converted out of fear. Or tired of being dhimmi and the abuses that were wrought upon them. The Jihadists followed Muhammed and didn’t keep their word (truces), lied to them if necessary, and were ruthless in their terror. It is all in the Quran.
 
All non believers Critisized Muhammed day and night. Most of the time Muhammed had wars with the non believers they always had the greater numbers and the mightier armies. Were they afraid then as well? Are they not afraid to go to war against him and they are afraid to assassin his character by his marriage to Aisha?

Lets be honest . This argument doesnt make sense.
Yes, lets be honest, Meedo, did he put to death and/or ordered certain poets who had criticized him to be killed? If the answer is yes, then what I said makes sense. You don’t necessarily have to have greater numbers in order to win a war, just a greater incentive, like, I don’t know, getting lots of booty if one wins a battle ( gold and such). This was promised by Mohammed to his followers if they would fight with him, right.
 
Child , adolescent , lady , woman, female. God created a barrier between bieng an adult and between bieng a non adult from the point of view of bieng taken into account for your actions. This Barrier is puberty. & with puberty God gives humans the capability to reproduce. If he himself though that was too young he would have delayed it.

He didn’t . God approves of things that you might disapprove of . That doesnt mean you are right.
How do we know that God approved of such things we have only your prophet, one man, who says so?
 
How do we know that God approved of such things we have only your prophet, one man, who says so?
And he even admitted, quite often in fact, that Satan was talking to him. And he said he was bothered by jinns too.

So, how does Muhammed determine which messages are from his Allah, or from Satan? To me it seems that whenever it benefited Muhammed then it came from Allah. It didn’t benefit Muhammed to just ignore the poets. Poets were listened to by the people and Muhammed had to put them out of his way. And what better way than to call for their assasinations. Just make sure that it wasn’t Muhammed that was caught in the deed of doing it. Basically, what we have with these two poets, the old man and woman, are the victims of the first fatwas in Islam.

They must be ok with his behavior because some have, and probably will in the future, defend him to the point of killing others when they speak against Muhammed. Muslims are working in the UN to shut people up about talking about Muhammed and Islam. And with the thugs in the UN, they are getting their way and there are a lot of idiot countries that obey the UN, while the Muslim countries do not obey, not even in regards to human rights abuses against unbelievers, or their own women.
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
How do we know that God approved of such things we have only your prophet, one man, who says so?
If u want to claim that having a young wife is a sin , then produce proof from your holy book . Post only one verse that says it’s a sin.

Jesus (pbuh) did not scold David (pbuh) for marrying a young virgin when he was at deathbad .

Can you tell me how old was Mary (pbuh) when she gave birth to your Lord ?? Surely she was not 20 + or 30 + .
 
The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.
Your post was excellent. I do not wish to criticize Muhammad’s behavior because it doesn’t meet the standards of today, but given the position that he is placed in, what you said in the above quote sums up the problem I have with him.
 
If u want to claim that having a young wife is a sin , then produce proof from your holy book . Post only one verse that says it’s a sin.

Jesus (pbuh) did not scold David (pbuh) for marrying a young virgin when he was at deathbad .

Can you tell me how old was Mary (pbuh) when she gave birth to your Lord ?? Surely she was not 20 + or 30 + .
**#1. ** You need to read the Bible and it is apparent that you did not concerning David and his young virgin.

1 Kings 1:4 The mainden, who was vry beautiful, nursed the king and cared for him, but the king did not have relaitons with her.

Basically she nursed him and kept him warm.

#2. tu quoque – an attempt to mitigate one’s responsibility for a wrongdoing by pointing out other’s flaws.

We are not saying that all Muslims are doing wrong, but some are and many of those who are pediphiles are clerics in Islam. While we take priests who have done such things and put them in prison, Islam just carries on the practice and its clerics lead the way by their example.

#3. Jesus said that marriage is between a man and a **WOMAN **- NOT a child! He goes into it further and how it is between ONE man and ONE woman. Matthew the whole Chapter 19.

From your note you are justifying pediphilia and quite frankly that is very nauseating. You can point to other’s bad behavior, or try to tell us to find whether or not pediphilia is a sin or not according to the Bible, but that won’t change anything in Islam. With Sharia Laws there will be no stop to it. And there is not a willingness in the Muslim world to change Sharia Laws.

You can keep up the practice of tu quoque, but it doesn’t serve you, or any Muslim, very well.
 
Your post was excellent. I do not wish to criticize Muhammad’s behavior because it doesn’t meet the standards of today, but given the position that he is placed in, what you said in the above quote sums up the problem I have with him.
Yeah, I agree with you about rtconstant’s post. The problem is that most of humanity has bypassed Muhammed’s moral character, not so in the Muslim world. Yes, not all Muslims are bad, but that is not due to the Quran’s teachings!
 
I just opened some email and got this article that has some videos in it: Child Marriage and More Child Abuse in the American Muslim Community

It also seems that American Muslims are importing slaves - the article goes into that.

this is really sad that this comment from the man came out:
Even after the woman’s confession, her husband stated that “this is a misunderstanding”.
The most recent news on this abuse case is that the alleged killer’s husband is furious that the police released her mug shot and said that the police are “really going to be in big trouble”. He has vowed to sue them, as they have “insulted” Islam… Was killing the baby an insult to Islam?
And then this quote:
Very disturbing and saddening news about child marriage and abuse has come out of the Al-Farooq Mosque in Nashville Tennessee. A brave woman has went undercover and recorded conversations with a 7 year-old girl who mentions her “husband” and how the children are beaten in the Mosque. I believe that it is safe to say that they are beaten because they are not memorizing the Koran fast enough for the Imams.
The way I see it, these are only ones who were caught. Especially with the attitude the husband displayed in the first quote, this seems to be an acceptable way to behave in Islam.
 
this does not negate the fact that his example is not a universal example, and it is a fact because little girls in Islamic countries are being traumatized because of his example.
Are you saying that women have different spiritual obligations than men do?

The fact that Muhammad’s wives are Mothers of the Believers is enough to know that in any area where the behavior of a woman cannot be exemplified by a man, she can look to the wives of the most noble example to fill in any gaps, as it were. Yet women do have the same spiritual obligations as men. 🙂
 
Are you saying that women have different spiritual obligations than men do?

The fact that Muhammad’s wives are Mothers of the Believers is enough to know that in any area where the behavior of a woman cannot be exemplified by a man, she can look to the wives of the most noble example to fill in any gaps, as it were. Yet women do have the same spiritual obligations as men. 🙂
I think you answered your own question. ‘little girls’ and ‘women’ are two different things. No, little girls should not be expected to be a woman and should not have the same obligations as an adult woman. Just as little boys should not have the same obligations as an adult man.
 
I would like to add to my previous comment that you, sister amy, had your childhood and now that you have joined a religion that is ok with taking other’s childhoods away - you are able to be ok with that? I find it troublesome how anyone can justify that.
 
I think you answered your own question. ‘little girls’ and ‘women’ are two different things. No, little girls should not be expected to be a woman and should not have the same obligations as an adult woman. Just as little boys should not have the same obligations as an adult man.
That has nothing to do with my post at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top