Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[Agabriel]

See what I mean!

Yeah, I see what you mean. It probably has to do with cussing.

You know, after all of these posts about Muhammad’s bad behavior and what he has done, what some ‘mufti grand scholar’ said is ok to do to children, I just can’t believe it. And what do we get? :sad_yes: Excuses, we are bashed, Jesus is bashed, etc.

 

[josie_L]

Yeah, I see what you mean. It probably has to do with cussing.

You know, after all of these posts about Muhammad’s bad behavior and what he has done, what some ‘mufti grand scholar’ said is ok to do to children, I just can’t believe it. And what do we get? :sad_yes: Excuses, we are bashed, Jesus is bashed, etc.

**I don’t get the excuses either, but I hope one day they will see Jesus for who he really is, our most beautiful Saviour. **

 

[famdigy]

Blame the victim and bless the criminal? Aisha was a child when mated with Mohammed

Aisha was a child, so she claims. She is no victim by any measure.
Aisha disobeyed the Quran on many occasions, she disobeyed the prophet on many occasions. She openly lied to his face, she administered the poision which killed him, she raised an army, fought against the rightful leader, killed thousands of innocents. She’s no innocent. Much like the wives of Noah and Lot who were bad women married to prophets, Aisha was no different.

The sunnis respect aisha and excuse all of her ill deeds.

 

[Agabriel]

Aisha was a child, so she claims. She is no victim by any measure.
Aisha disobeyed the Quran on many occasions, she disobeyed the prophet on many occasions. She openly lied to his face, she administered the poision which killed him, she raised an army, fought against the rightful leader, killed thousands of innocents. She’s no innocent. Much like the wives of Noah and Lot who were bad women married to prophets, Aisha was no different.

The sunnis respect aisha and excuse all of her ill deeds.

Josie, see what I mean?

Muhammad lies, he tells Muslims to lie, but when Aisha does it the fangs come out, oh, but they ‘respect’ her. With ‘respect’ like that…

She is now accused of administering the poison that killed him. It was another who killed Muhammad - Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427 [Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha]

Muhammad’s deed ‘came home to roost’ so to say.

 

[Agabriel]

With all this venom about Aisha and lying, I wonder how they think they can trust Muhammad since he told so many lies. How do they really know he didn’t sham all of them? How can they trust a liar?

They think that Aisha is nothing but a liar but give the one who committed shirk, and went against most laws of what they thought were decent, one such example was lusting after and wanting his stepson’s wife. Are they so sure that the definitions for Jihad are really what God wanted? Muhammad made up his own definitions of what is sin and what isn’t.

It won’t matter what is written here anyway. They go back to their clerics for a dose of what they should and should not believe in. I don’t think they read their own texts, let alone think about them. If they did I don’t think there would be this blind acceptance of what Muhammad did and said. If they can’t accept a child who (maybe) lied, then how can they accept a old man who lied all the time?!?!

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**Agabriel, Some one asked Aisha about the charachter (Akhlaaq) of Muhammad. She said “Have you not read the Quran?” The Questioner replied that he had read the Quran.

Aisha told him that the Character of the Prophet was the Quran. He lived a life according to the dictates of the Quran.**

So it is a lesson to all the catholics posting here. Please do not ascribe false reports to our prophet Muhammad.on the basis of Hadith etc. Come by the Quran please. Whatever is written in the Quran is okay. If you have anything objectionable then bring it from the Quran.

We know that our Hadith is better than your bibleNT. Hadith is more reliable than the man made bibleNt which is a mixed type of biography of Jesus And you people who are involving the prophet in bad deeds have actually nothing from God. No real book or word of God. No guidance at all. So all you do is to blame our prophet by use of unreliable reports.

Hadith is not from God. It was written by some men like the bible was written by the men.

Leave bible and Hadith alone and come by the actual revealed words of God (kalaam Allah) i.e. Quran. Do not waste time in idle things.

So you want us to ingore the Bible, ignore the hadiths…nice try planten, but God offered us more then just a book written by Mohammed followers. We try to find all the evidence that is neccesary to make an allegation. If you believe the hadiths that some of our posters shared with us are lies then…

PROVE IT.

Instead of bashing the Bible and claim it its a man-made book which by the way is offending us to the next level. I ask you to offer proof that the Bible is a lie about the biography of Jesus. I advise our fellow members to bann planten for he pops up when he feels like it and bashes Chrsitianity, but dissapears when he is asked to prove his claims. Very rude indeed!

 

[neploho]

This shows that Mohammed was nothing like Jesus.

Planten saying Mohammed was loving like Jesus without providing evidence is very insulting to us. This is another post I am very furious about

Be careful Planten…be careful.

If you believe that Jesus is God, and the same God as the Old Testament then that injunction is very much somthing along the lines of what Jesus would consider just.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

If you believe that Jesus is God, and the same God as the Old Testament then that injunction is very much somthing along the lines of what Jesus would consider just.

you really have no idea what you`re talking about.

 

[neploho]

you really have no idea what you`re talking about.

Why were the Jewish officials about to stone the woman Jesus saved? They were following his (if we consider Christ to be the God of the Old Testament) commands from before. Did the God of the Old Testament order an unjust punishment? If not then your God, and hence Jesus, do consider stoning a just punishment for adultry.

If there is a flaw in my logic point it out. But as far as I can see you either must admit that the Jesus of the New Testament is substantially different from the God of the Old, or you must admit that stoning is a just punishment and Jesus would view it as a just punishment.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Why were the Jewish officials about to stone the woman Jesus saved? They were following his (if we consider Christ to be the God of the Old Testament) commands from before. Did the God of the Old Testament order an unjust punishment? If not then your God, and hence Jesus, do consider stoning a just punishment for adultry.

If there is a flaw in my logic point it out. But as far as I can see you either must admit that the Jesus of the New Testament is substantially different from the God of the Old, or you must admit that stoning is a just punishment and Jesus would view it as a just punishment.

“May the first one without sin cast the first stone”

This topic deserves a new thread. This thread is directed specifically for muslims.

 

[neploho]

“May the first one without sin cast the first stone”

This topic deserves a new thread. This thread is directed specifically for muslims.

Nope. Sorry, but I’m not going to let this go and it is connected to the topic because of the way you introduced it.

Simple response please

1. Is Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

2)Was the God of the Old Testament unjust in making adultry a capital offense?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Nope. Sorry, but I’m not going to let this go and it is connected to the topic because of the way you introduced it.

Simple response please

1. Is Jesus the God of the Old Testament? Yes, we Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity meaning The Eternal Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit make up 1 God, so yes.

2)Was the God of the Old Testament unjust in making adultry a capital offense?

. No he wasn`t

 

[neploho]

. No he wasn`t

So then how do you figure that Muhammad could not have been loving like Jesus for mandating something Jesus himself mandated a few thousand years earlier?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

So then how do you figure that Muhammad could not have been loving like Jesus for mandating something Jesus himself mandated a few thousand years earlier?

Where did the Father of Jesus do anything like torutue victims, throw them out in the desert to dehydrate and starve, premit 50 year old prophets to sleep with 9 year old females, ect…?

 

[Agabriel]

The commands to stone were not from God. The 10 Commandments were from God. The 10 Commandments indeed said not to commit adultry, but it did not continue on to say to stone anyone.

Jesus clarified the law by basically saying that anyone without sin should cast the first stone.

The insistence to carry on this thought is just one more excuse, or attempt at diverting, what Muslims say about Muhammad’s actions. And we see once again the attempt at not answering this.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Jesus clarified the law by basically saying that anyone without sin should cast the first stone.

.

What The Bible Says

Capital Punishment

…Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” …There is a question of the authorship and date of the story.

“This passage is not found in any of the important early Greek textual witnesses of Eastern provenance (e.g., in neither Bodmer papyrus); nor is it found in OS [Old Syriac] or the Coptic. . . . It is only from ca. 900 that it begins to appear in the standard Greek text.” Clearly, “it was a later insertion” (Brown, p. 335).

It is for this reason that some translations (e.g., the first edition of the RSV) place it as a footnote rather than as part of the text-proper.

geocities.com/a_christian_conservative/john8.html

 

[Agabriel]

What The Bible Says

Capital Punishment

…Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” …There is a question of the authorship and date of the story.

“This passage is not found in any of the important early Greek textual witnesses of Eastern provenance (e.g., in neither Bodmer papyrus); nor is it found in OS [Old Syriac] or the Coptic. . . . It is only from ca. 900 that it begins to appear in the standard Greek text.” Clearly, “it was a later insertion” (Brown, p. 335).

It is for this reason that some translations (e.g., the first edition of the RSV) place it as a footnote rather than as part of the text-proper.

For us it is Canonical. It was probably inserted due to the the allusion to ‘I do not judge anyone’ from Jeremiah 17, 13. But since the Catholic Church accepts it as Canonical. for us to use this passage is correct, no matter when it was inserted.

Now, as for using this as an excuse for Muhammad to keep on stoning people, and Muslims to follow that example - I guess you feel good about that.

Now, if you want to go into the absolute mess that the Quran is all about - we can do that. I would find it embarrassing that a god would compose such a thing as that, but hey - you guys are ok with it. This thread is about Muslims being ok with Muhammad’s actions. And by your continual excuses for him, I suppose that it is ok with you.

Do you feel good in trying to justifying a most barbaric type of death a person could go through? Your own fellow Muslim woman who are way too often raped without the man bringing an audience so as to turn himself in.

 

[planten]

For us it is Canonical. It was probably inserted due to the the allusion to ‘I do not judge anyone’ from Jeremiah 17, 13. But since the Catholic Church accepts it as Canonical. for us to use this passage is correct, no matter when it was inserted.

Now, as for using this as an excuse for Muhammad to keep on stoning people, and Muslims to follow that example - I guess you feel good about that.

**Agabriel, The punishment of stoning was for the Jews and Jesus. But Jesus could not implement that punishment being under the Roman rule. he could have been convicted of murder. He however could not deny that the right punishment for adultery was stoning to death.

Therefore, he cleverly avoided the problem by saying that the punishment is stoning to death and it should be implemented but the first stone should be thrown by any one who was not involved in adultery himself… Since every one was sunk deep in adultery in those people, so all went away. Only Jesus was left. He also let the lady go away.

That was the right course. If every one was adulterer then why that lady only be stoned?

There is no stoning in Islam. The punishment for adultery or fornication is 100 lashes in open field. (See verse 24:2)**

Now, if you want to go into the absolute mess that the Quran is all about - we can do that. I would find it embarrassing that a god would compose such a thing as that, but hey - you guys are ok with it. This thread is about Muslims being ok with Muhammad’s actions. And by your continual excuses for him, I suppose that it is ok with you.

The above is not understood because no specific complaint is mentioned. It is a general feeling of discomfort and distress from Agabriel that has not been mentioned (made clear.). So cannot be replied.

Do you feel good in trying to justifying a most barbaric type of death a person could go through? Your own fellow Muslim woman who are way too often raped without the man bringing an audience so as to turn himself in.

That rape is going on in all the countries. But the christian dominated countries have enough of free sex and rarely there is any need of rape. Death is difficult in any manner. It may be by hanging or crucifixion or stoning. That stoning is not in Islam. It belonged to the Jews and Jesus and his friends and disciples…

 

[Agabriel]

Rape is treated as a crime with the victim being innocent and not the criminal. It is the rapist who is the criminal.

While in Islam it is the victim who is considered the criminal and as such they are stoned, beheaded, hanged, etc.

As for wanton sex - Muslims have no room to condemn anyone else especially when their own clerics call for rape if the woman isn’t wearing a scarf, or if they are unbelievers.

So, another Muslim who is ok with Muhammad’s actions…

As for a history lesson about Jesus or the Jews from a Muslim who gets their history from the Quran - no thanks.

 

[planten]

Rape is treated as a crime with the victim being innocent and not the criminal. It is the rapist who is the criminal.

While in Islam it is the victim who is considered the criminal and as such they are stoned, beheaded, hanged, etc.

**Agabriel, thanks for coming back with clarifictations. islamic laws are in the Quran. Please show where the Quran says " it is the victim who is considered the criminal ". I feel that you are assuming things.

Can you tell me, from your book that " It is the rapist who is the criminal."???

I will be happy to learn something about christianity. Thanks in advance. Also please do not go by what the Muslims are doing. Otherwise go by what the christians are doing too. **

As for wanton sex - Muslims have no room to condemn anyone else especially when their own clerics call for rape if the woman isn’t wearing a scarf, or if they are unbelievers.

Not understood. Please come by the Quran and do not blame by what the present day Mulsims are doing. I will also not quetion you about what the present day christians are doing in Paris and U.K.

So, another Muslim who is ok with Muhammad’s actions…

As for a history lesson about Jesus or the Jews from a Muslim who gets their history from the Quran - no thanks.

**I am not taking the history from the Quran. It is general knowledge that Jesus was Jew. So was his mother. He had a law to follow which he supported. That law was the law of Moses a.s. which he had come to follow and fulfil.

There was stoning in that law. There is no punishment of stoning in Islam. That is what I had written. If it is history or the knowledge of the scripture, you may decide please. But let me know if I am right**.