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josie_L
Guest
Excuse me where is the proof that 9 year old girls were developed back then, is this based on natural science, and if it is, how come I have learnt that girls generally pubesced at around the age of 13?
- Status
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josie_L
Guest
"Girls were considered nubile (of marriageable age) at age twelve, although both Pepin and Charlemagne passed legislation prohibiting the marriage of girls or boy before the age of puberty. Since the age of menarch (puberty for girls) was apparently around age thirteen (similar to the age of menarch in the twentieth century and earlier than in the nineteenth century) . . . "
The reign of Charlemagne was only a century or so after Mohammed, so my question is, how fast do you think girls in the 7th century pubesced as compared with the 8th century. We know that girls reached the age of menarch at the same age throughout most of history (after the 8th century).
Aisha was 9 years old when she had sex with Mohammed, while apparently still playing with dolls. How mature!!!
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dzheremi
Guest
There is some evidence that women in torrid regions tend to develop earlier than others, but what this has to do with their MENTAL MATURITY (you know…what they need to be able to “consent” in any meaningful way to the kinds of adult decisions that marriage, love, and sex involve), I don’t know. In my life I have known plenty of women who developed early, but it was never accompanied by any sort of abnormal increase in maturity. In fact, the women themselves generally conceded that it greatly confused them because they did not know how to handle the sort of attention they were suddenly getting. They weren’t mature enough, you could say, even though they were certainly mature enough from a physical standpoint to bare children.
I find it highly ironic that many Muslim posters here will decry the West for its problems with teenage pregnancy, yet when it comes to their prophet marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9, suddenly everything is fine and how dare we criticize the greatest, most moral man who ever lived. I hate to break it to you, Muslims, but even in the West most girls are NOT having sex at 9 years old, and certainly not with 50+ year old men, no matter how mature they may be either physically or mentally. And if they are it considered an extremely perverse situation and the adult is taken to jail. The fact that the teenage mothers that they point to as a sign of western decadence, corruption, and immorality are significantly older than Aisha when Muhammad began his sexual relationship with her seems lost on Muslim apologists…
I find it highly ironic that many Muslim posters here will decry the West for its problems with teenage pregnancy, yet when it comes to their prophet marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9, suddenly everything is fine and how dare we criticize the greatest, most moral man who ever lived. I hate to break it to you, Muslims, but even in the West most girls are NOT having sex at 9 years old, and certainly not with 50+ year old men, no matter how mature they may be either physically or mentally. And if they are it considered an extremely perverse situation and the adult is taken to jail. The fact that the teenage mothers that they point to as a sign of western decadence, corruption, and immorality are significantly older than Aisha when Muhammad began his sexual relationship with her seems lost on Muslim apologists…
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empurpledsoul
Guest
Not only was this something done ‘back then’ but since Muhammad is the perfect model for all people in all times, it continues today in Arabia. 50 plus year old men being given young girls for brides by their families, often to pay a debt or ‘make peace’ between families in conflict. The girl is not an autonomous, free willed, intelligent being created by God equal to man, she is a form of chattel under the thumb of men, her father, her brother, her old man husband, the patriarchal society, the religious police, you name it. She is born into a prison that negates Gods divine gift of free will for all human beings in life.
That is the true offense that these ‘apologists’ today are accountable for when they take a human error based on male lust and sexual desire, or male dominance over females who are seen as property , in our modern era when the rest of the world has evolved far far away from accepting these ideas, at a very root level, we know without a doubt it is wrong. This is the bad fruit of Islam, that it keeps the evil of the past alive in the present, that it keeps a population on earth ensnared in its false teachings that harm young girls in a way that has little chance of changing when the way of defining what is moral is ONLY by looking at the immorality of a man who claimed he was Allahs perfect prophet and the last and best of all time forever and ever.
What pathology.
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Daanyaal
Guest
Whether you like it or not Aisha was happy with the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. She was not forced to marry (she made the decision) .She was physically a woman at the time of her consumation (she could have babies). What is more the verses of the Quran mention a man must marry a woman. Women generally pubesced at 13 well in Aisha’s case it was 9 or earlier. That said, i pointed out the fact that no one rebuked his decision to marry Aisha because it reflected society at that time! As for today, Muslims who marry girls and not women are probably following culture because if they had any knowledge on this topic they would marry a Woman.
Bottom line, Aisha was not forced to do any thing she loved the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. She went on to become one of the greatest scholars in islam by the grace of Allah/ God.
Hope this helps
Bottom line, Aisha was not forced to do any thing she loved the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. She went on to become one of the greatest scholars in islam by the grace of Allah/ God.
Hope this helps
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empurpledsoul
Guest
It is not really her age that is the problem, since we are well aware that the customs of the time would have women marry much younger. It is the difference between her age and Muhammad’s. If she were betrothed to a young 16 year old ‘man’ it would be ‘just’, his mental age and emotional age would be near hers. But it was also a part of the custom that women were ‘purchased’ per se by a man with money, through a dowry, which would create an economic trade between families. We reject this idea today also. And this is why little girls were betrothed to old men who had ‘riches’ to offer. The only women who had a choice were those who had already received materially by virtue of a husband whom they were widowed by as was the case of Muhammad’s first wife.Whether you like it or not Aisha was happy with the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. She was not forced to marry (she made the decision) .She was physically a woman at the time of her consumation (she could have babies). What is more the verses of the Quran mention a man must marry a woman. Women generally pubesced at 13 well in Aisha’s case it was 9 or earlier. That said, i pointed out the fact that no one rebuked his decision to marry Aisha because it reflected society at that time! As for today, Muslims who marry girls and not women are probably following culture because if they had any knowledge on this topic they would marry a Woman.
Bottom line, Aisha was not forced to do any thing she loved the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. She went on to become one of the greatest scholars in islam by the grace of Allah/ God.
Hope this helps
This may all be ‘fine’ 1400 years ago even, but it totally negates the claim that Islam is a religion for all places, all people and all times when it codifies what humanity has become much more enlightened and evolved to be repulsed by.
Today is not then and the world has changed and most of humanity has changed. The idea of a 50 year old man having a 6 year old bride and consummating marriage with her the moment she has her first menses is utterly repulsive to those who were not told that this was HOLY by a human claiming to be such a representative so long ago. Medically, it has been proven that young girls under the age of full physical growth (even when they start their menses they are still growing physically and are not ‘fully mature’) become pregnant it is a medical risk and danger to them because their bodies are not fully developed (in the pelvic region) to bear children and endure childbirth without permanent damage or even death. It is only our modern medicine intervening that reduces this risk today in our underage mothers. That so many women died in childbirth back then is very likely due to the propensity to jump their bones the minute the begin to ‘be a woman’, by old men who want the ‘nubile young thing’ and not the ‘old woman’ who is only 24 or so. Those days are gone, so Islam is now the source of grave mistakes in encouraging this fate for very young girls, not something that honors and blesses humanity but repulses and offends the greater majority who are outside of the religion.
To say “she like it” when she had no choice and was virtually betrothed before she even understood what it meant is no different than saying a girl held in a cult and forced to ‘be married’ to the old men there, with a dozen other women is ‘happy’ about it. If she has been raised that way she will not know any different.
In this day and age we would almost universally agree that this child is a victim of a crime and the perpetrator would be imprisoned and abused by his male prison mates for doing what is considered the single most disgusting thing on earth, raping a child, even if they said their religion made it ok and they were ‘married’.
The rest of the world doesn’t use the same moral relativity that says since Muhammad did it, it is just peachy keen and even ‘holy and perfect’.
Get a grip on modern reality. It is disgusting and he did not stand the test of time in his example.
It is NOT something you would find in Jesus teachings or example, why? Because he came to do ONLY the will of God and not follow human lust and desire. Trust on his example alone and you never have to apologize, defend or make immorality ‘just’ with mental acrobatics.
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Daanyaal
Guest
Your idea of dowry is wrong. Dowry is exclusively for the bride not the family. Family should not touch it.
Prophet Muhammad pbuh married a woman therefore a muslim man of modern times should marry a woman. Like i said before any Muslim who does marry a girl is following culture or has no knowledge of marrige in islam. Moreover the age was not an issue then Aisha had no problem, her parents or wider society. Yes today it would be, but Prophet Muhammad did not marry a 6 year old in our modern society. You see the rule is marry a woman not a girl end of.
Prophet Aadam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Lut, Solomon, David, Jesus, Muhammad and all the Prophet’s peace be upon them all came to serve Allah/ God not their lusts or desires.
Prophet Muhammad pbuh married a woman therefore a muslim man of modern times should marry a woman. Like i said before any Muslim who does marry a girl is following culture or has no knowledge of marrige in islam. Moreover the age was not an issue then Aisha had no problem, her parents or wider society. Yes today it would be, but Prophet Muhammad did not marry a 6 year old in our modern society. You see the rule is marry a woman not a girl end of.
Prophet Aadam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Lut, Solomon, David, Jesus, Muhammad and all the Prophet’s peace be upon them all came to serve Allah/ God not their lusts or desires.
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R_not
Guest
Real evil is the face that bin Laden has when talking about his killing and hate. That is the sort of evil that so many cannot understand when faced with it. The calmness, the voice, and the self-righteousness of what that person does. I call it the facade that islam has on so many of their followers. Those coy, virginal looking muslimettes have it, but then we heard things like this from those coy little ones…This icon isn’t so much angryas it is evil-looking. I mean put a beard on it, and voila, a terrorist smiley.
- “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
- “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.”
Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001
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R_not
Guest
We hear that same excuse when muslims don’t like us discussing ‘honor killings’, clitorectomies, slavery, etc. The thing is that all muslim majority countries do these things so which culture do you want to say is the one that doesn’t do such a thing? And the Kings of Israel that you mention were very much into serving themselves in the area of sex. The difference being that there was no idea that anyone had to follow them as the muslims follow mohammed - the polygamy, the ease of divorce, the pediphilia, and in some cases their slaves (male and/or female). (some were caught in the USA with their slaves and now sit in prison and will be deported after they serve their sentences - and these few are only the ones who were caught.)
None of those you mentioned worshipped the moon, or mohammed - or more like a combination of both of them - so I don’t even know where you get that stuff from.
mohammed was all about his lusts and desires. I don’t know where you can justify that he wasn’t. He would think up surahs, or decree rules, whenever he wanted a woman (eg: his stepson’s wife that others did indeed find disgusting until mohammed said that it was decreed by allah).
Here is Aisha’s ‘consent’:
But, we have read from all the muslims on these threads excuses for his behavior so why do I not expect anything different from you? I don’t.
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empurpledsoul
Guest
It is more than obvious to the rest of us that the only way one can ‘defend’ Islam is to reject other forms of truth that humanity has embraced as they have progressed into more ‘enlightened’ human beings.
We do not hold that prophets of the past were without fault. Solomon did fall victim to his desire, and this was a lesson to be learned, not a behavior to be codified as ‘holy for all time’. This codifying of Muhammads sexual propensity that were exclusive to a day and age and his special power as a prophet that drew women to him, which he took great advantage of and “Allah” supported (like marrying his adopted sons wife whom he lusted after after seeing partially clad and taking the beautiful jewess on the same day that he cause her husband to be brutally slaughtered). Today this would be a war crime and it would end up in a world tribunal, American soldiers are called ‘disgusting’ for raping Iraqi women which we agree in America is a crime and a sin, but your self made prophet, who is not like others in the Abrahamic tradition simply because he claims perfection and you emulate him as such, was warped, period.
He was a criminal according to world standards today and Islam is revealing its dark seamy underside by those who believe that these actions are ‘holy’ just because of him and NOT because of God. It was Allah who hurried to make sure a new revelation would justify, qualify and excuse those things that offended even the Arabs of his time, changing their moral compass on his whims.
Jesus, whom you lumped in with thisMuhammad’s horrible example,which Muhammad did hoping to ride in on Jesus truly divine coattails, was set miles apart in ways that Muslims remain blind to, unable to compare because only Muhammad is their ‘leader’ and perfect example. That he rejected much of what Jesus taught and went directly against Jesus teaching and life example disqualifies him completely as a legitimate prophet of God.
But of course you will never accept this, and must reject Jesus perfect morality for Muhammad’s debasement of it in order to remain true to what you have been led to believe is perfection, in spite of the growing momentum and outcry of humanity everywhere, athiests included, that the beliefs of Muhammad’s morality are not moral at all but a totally repulsive offense to any human’s sensibility who stands outside of the evil spell caste by Muhammad’s false claims.
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josie_L
Guest
Osama bin Laden
is doing what he believes God has ordained :banghead:, and all because Mohammed proclaimed to be getting messages from an “angel” of dubious nature.:nope: I have never heard the like of an angel (biblically speaking) that would take a true prophet in such a forceful hold as he did with Mohammed. 
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empurpledsoul
Guest
Muslims have not received the moral teachings of Jesus, so they have no compass, no reason to be outraged at what Muhammad came to claim later.
The claim ‘to honor’ him but do not study his Word, do not know his teachings, do not live by his standard and so they have no clue how offensive Muhammad is without God’s word dwelling in their heart and soul.
The chasm between Muhammad and Jesus is tremendous. But they only have the altered heretical version of Jesus and very very few Muslims study Jesus with the same honor and faith and respect that they give Muhammad so they don’t see the gaping errors between the two. And those who do have the pure intent to know the truth and start learning about Jesus seeking GODS help in the matter end up leaving Islam because they understand why we, as Christians, can not accept the darkness after being fully in the light of Christ.
The claim ‘to honor’ him but do not study his Word, do not know his teachings, do not live by his standard and so they have no clue how offensive Muhammad is without God’s word dwelling in their heart and soul.
The chasm between Muhammad and Jesus is tremendous. But they only have the altered heretical version of Jesus and very very few Muslims study Jesus with the same honor and faith and respect that they give Muhammad so they don’t see the gaping errors between the two. And those who do have the pure intent to know the truth and start learning about Jesus seeking GODS help in the matter end up leaving Islam because they understand why we, as Christians, can not accept the darkness after being fully in the light of Christ.
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R_not
Guest
yeah, you are right. And they are indeed told to do so in their koran - to read the Bible.
surah 10:94 Basically, it is telling the muslims to read the Bible - the ‘books before them’. He even says that it is ‘truth from our Lord’.
So, if the Bible is considered the Truth even from the koran, then it nullifies the koran since the koran has a completely different message.
10:37 goes into this too, but the problem is that this surah says it is a confirmation that went before. All it is a self-proclamation of being written by allah, and that it is a confirmation that it is really hard to take it seriously other than a book to show us what is in store for us as unbelievers.
allah couldn’t make up its mind. It changed the message from the Bible and then it changed its mind as to the message even in its own koran.
The thing is that if they did read the Bible, then they would see the discrepencies. And with so many muslim countries banning Bibles, or making them scarce - it is hard to even find one for them to read. Instead they have their children spend endless hours memorizing the koran. It is another reason not too much else other than jihadists come out of these lands.
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inJESUS
Guest
God does not tell us that Moses or David or any other prophet is the “best of creatures” as Islam claims about Muhammad and Jesus asks us to learn from Him, not from Moses or Solomon or David.
Beside what others mentioned, there is one thing Muhammad did that real prophets never did which is claiming sexual and marital privileges as a prize for prophethood yet someone like Muhammad had the guts to profane God’s holiness by claiming that God granted him sexual priviledges more than any other human being:
O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father’s side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father’s side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother’s side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother’s side who emigrated with thee, **and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet **and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - **a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers **- We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. S. 33:50
Yas-tan-kih" comes from the word “Yan’kah.” For it is said in different forms “Nakaha” and “Istan-kaha” just as it is said “Ajab” and “Ista-jab”… It is permissible to use the word, “Istan-kaha,” to mean one whom requests marriage or one who requests sexual intercourse..quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KORTOBY&nType=1&nSora=33&nAya=50
Seems Muhammad’s deity had nothing to do but grant him wives, sexual slaves, sexual mates, temporary marriages and threats of divorce to his wives if they upset him. Wake up and see the man for who he actually was.
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Sam_777
Guest
R_not already quoted the authentic hadith which shows Aisha doesn’t know about that marriage, if you have authentic source for your claim then present it else that would be considered an Islamic Taqiyya.
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309:
“'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.”
صحيح مسلم - النكاح - تزويج الأب البكر الصغيرة:
تزوجني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لست سنين وبنى بي وأنا بنت تسع سنين قالت فقدمنا المدينة فوعكت شهرا فوفى شعري جميمة فأتتني أم رومان وأنا على أرجوحة ومعي صواحبي فصرخت بي فأتيتها وما أدري ما تريد بي فأخذت بيدي فأوقفتني على الباب فقلت هه هه حتى ذهب نفسي فأدخلتني بيتا فإذا نسوة من الأنصار فقلن على الخير والبركة وعلى خير طائر فأسلمتني إليهن فغسلن رأسي وأصلحنني فلم يرعني إلا ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ضحى فأسلمنني إليه
(E) (A) تزوجني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لست سنين وبنى بي وأنا بنت تسع سنين قالت فقدمنا المدينة فوعكت شهرا فوفى شعري جميمة فأتتني أم رومان وأنا على أرجوحة ومعي صواحبي فصرخت بي فأتيتها وما أدري ما تريد بي فأخذت بيدي فأوقفتني على الباب فقلت هه هه حتى ذهب نفسي فأدخلتني بيتا فإذا نسوة من الأنصار فقلن على الخير والبركة وعلى خير طائر فأسلمتني إليهن فغسلن رأسي وأصلحنني فلم يرعني إلا ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ضحى فأسلمنني إليه
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Daanyaal
Guest
Brother/ sister R not if i wanted i could talk of slavery, holy wars/ killings which people of your faith have commited. Anyway i wont jump the bandwaggon and say all Catholics/Christians are like this. As i was reiterating beforehand culture is the problem not islam. These persons are not following the correct teachings of islam, marry a woman etc . Also about the books, we do believe the Gospel and Torah were the truth. Of course Allah/God revealed them to his Prophet’s may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon them. They were the truth before man changed them ** with his hands. Thus changing the words of Allah/God. Quran came as the final revelation to restore Allah/God’s words and bring people back to the straight path. And who is Osama bin laden? the bogeyman? former CIA agent? please dont listen to this propaganda, us Muslim’s dont give him a second look. What is more we DO NOT WORSHIP PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH OR THE MOON** VERY ODD THING TO SAY. You can not be a muslim if you do . We believe in ONE Allah/God, we believe in the **creator ** not the creation and nothing is comparable to Allah/God. By the way i love Prophet Jesus may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him. He was a Great Prophet and i have studied him what a man! Also we have to remember the Prophet’s and Messenger’s are HUMAN if they made any mistakes there was a lesson behind it for the Prophet in question and the people that followed him. Lastly the Quran tells us accounts of many Prophet’ s Adam, Abraham, Jesus etc so we have learnt from them all. Sam 777 i will get that Hadeeth for you.
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empurpledsoul
Guest
The only measure of righteous behavior you need to look at is the one given by Jesus himself. And by that we give a measure to Muhammad and he gets ‘epic fail’ when compared to Jesus.
It matters not what Muslims or Christians do, I would never look to those who may or may not be truly applying Gods will or being Gods example for humanity to decided which religion is right.
It is the one’s who brought the religion to the world that must be examined and this is the measure that Jesus never fails, that Jesus never needs to be excused or apologized for, he was perfect, no slaves, no wars, no violence to control or push his agenda, no retribution or revenge, no booty,no concubines, no child brides or polygamy. All of this you will be proud of in the life of your idol Muhammad but it is only Jesus who brought the true Word, Way and Will of God to humanity in his example.
Muslims are all wrong simply because they emulate one who broke the very Word of God that was given through the anointed one, the Holy and Divine Savior, Jesus.
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empurpledsoul
Guest
You have no proof that Jesus Word was changed or that God did not preserve His Truth in Christ. But Islam can not survive without this false accusation, it has no merit to stand on within its own teachings.
You claim and cry and yell, we do not worship Muhammad, but you emulate, to the most mundane of human idiosyncrasy his humanity, Muslims repeat his moral offenses believing they are just and holy only because Muhammad, the human being, said his God said they were. You deny what Jesus taught on so many things when you keep every word without testing it that Muhammad said, which undid the path and went directly against Jesus who was truly the One given to be the perfect example for mankind.
Muslims have killed because people have ‘insulted Muhammad’ but have never reacted as strongly when Allah himself is insulted. Allah is the ego of Muhammad, bending to his every whim, excusing his every flaw, allowing his every evil act and this is why we know, because Jesus was the light and Muhammad is clearly a shadow in his history, his actions and his deeds. HIs shadow covers the Muslims view, as the toss out the Word following false claims by Muhammad who had everything to gain in world glory that the Word was corrupted. It is Muhammad who gave a corrupted truth and opposed the Word, not Christians. It is Muhammad who rewrote history, reinvented stories and changed events to suit his goal of being the most emulated human on the planet as the ‘ultimate and perfect and last authorized messenger of God’.
Yes, Muslims worship him, they submit to everything he said without testing it, as the bible has taught all believers to do, the Muslim can not test for themselves, they must take at face value, blind faith, all that Muhammad said and did without question, without proof other than his self fulfilled claims.
The statement that the proof of his ‘holy’ calling is the Quran is not sufficient, the Quran is the thing that claims he was holy and HE was the one who had the delusions of a visitor that nobody would ever witness. There were none of the great works Jesus said would be done by faith through those that believe, by receiving the truth in God, if Muhammad had been receiving the spirit and power of Truth, as Jesus did, he would have done the great works of HEALING, RAISING THE DEAD, CREATING FOOD FROM NOTHING FOR THE MASSES, all acts that serve others. No instead we have invented stories about a tree crying for Muhammad not paying enough attention, something stroking the ego and mania of Muhammad’s twisted reality, the world bowing down to him, the world of nature praising him, rubbish I say. That is not a miracle, that is a delusion, it is not Gods work to have nature worshipping Muhammad, it is Gods work to bring healing, love, truth and PEACE to humanity through his messengers, not blood, wars, rape, theft, polygamy and pedophilia.
Wake up, see the truth, look at Jesus and see the light, step out of the shadow that Muhammad cast, stop making him a giant when he was a mere man overcome by his own delusions and desires for grandiose power on the earth over all other prophets, religions and people that were not of ‘his own’ demented claims.
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inJESUS
Guest
in other words, you believe in “virtual” books, yet you need these “virtual” books to find Muhammad…does it even make sense on a human level before it even reflects divine wisdom? no. I’ve been reading what Muslims have to say for years, and i always read copy/paste, as if you were taught to answer in the same way, and none of your answers make sense neither historically nor theologically nor logically. When did people change? who did change? which church did change? in what era? you have absolutely no clue. Which Quran came to “correct”? Ali’s copy? or Zaid’s? or Ibn Masud? or Uthman? Which recitation? Hafs or Warsh or Qaloun? pray tell, which ones of all these different Quran is on the preserved tablet in heaven? or does Allah have different sets of Qurans on his eternal tablet? when you answer one of these questions we’ll start having meaningful conversations…till now it is amateurish claims.
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planten
Guest
** It means you do not need god to teach or guide you but you are old and capable enough to guide the god. You do not need god any more. You are grown up enough to help yourself, as Neitzsche (the German philosopher) had said that man is no more a child that he need any god to walk him be holding his hand.
Are you a follower of Neitzsche? They were misguided totalitarion people.
It is alright that you are a non-denominational, meaning a christian without any direction. You may go on your way. But please do not spread your misguidance here. The way you have explained things is as if now there is no need of Jesus too. The world according to you has progressed enough. So there is no need of the old old teachings of the old times of Jesus too… Why don’t you get rid of him too?**
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