Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[planten]

in other words, you believe in “virtual” books, yet you need these “virtual” books to find Muhammad…does it even make sense on a human level before it even reflects divine wisdom? no. I’ve been reading what Muslims have to say for years, and i always read copy/paste, as if you were taught to answer in the same way, and none of your answers make sense neither historically nor theologically nor logically. When did people change? who did change? which church did change? in what era? you have absolutely no clue. Which Quran came to “correct”? Ali’s copy? or Zaid’s? or Ibn Masud? or Uthman? Which recitation? Hafs or Warsh or Qaloun? pray tell, which ones of all these different Quran is on the preserved tablet in heaven? or does Allah have different sets of Qurans on his eternal tablet? when you answer one of these questions we’ll start having meaningful conversations…till now it is amateurish claims.

** inJesus, we have told you many times that Saul of Tarsus highjacked your religion very soon after Jesus had suddenly disappeared. He was an enemy of Jesus and had killed many innocent christians.But you seem to love that man, Saul.

Some one has taught you so many false lessons that you people seem to be beyond repair. You are carrying a cross (which was the enemy instrument to punish Jesus.) You know that any one who dies on a piece of wood (cross) is a cursed person (as per bibleOT). Yet you are all happy that Jesus be killed on the cross.

You know that it was the enemies of Jesus who had planned to kill Jesus on the cross. You are supporting them as if it was a good thing.

Then Jesus being a pefect high class Jew never uttered a single word against the Jewish law (customs). He practiced the law too and never intended to abolish it. But you have abolished the law of Moses on some simple pretext without realising that Jesus and his mother and his disciples all acted according to the law of Moses till their death.

Yet you are asking the Muslims about who corrupted your book. You may know it better. I do not know if you have any book from God because now the posters here are denying that Jesus had any book or gave any book. So good-bye to any book too. We Muslims believe that Jesus was given a book by his God (verse 19:30) and he was a prophet of God. He used to pray to that God. He used to worship that God. He called that God for help too. These are the lessons still to be found in the bibleNT. Not all the bible is corrupted. Please understand that we have replied to you about your questions**.

 

[dzheremi]

** inJesus, we have told you many times that Saul of Tarsus highjacked your religion very soon after Jesus had suddenly disappeared. He was an enemy of Jesus and had killed many innocent christians.But you seem to love that man, Saul.**

What a surprise…Planten brings up something that no one is talking about and has zero relevance to anything that is going on.

Some one has taught you so many false lessons that you people seem to be beyond repair. You are carrying a cross (which was the enemy instrument to punish Jesus.) You know that any one who dies on a piece of wood (cross) is a cursed person (as per bibleOT). Yet you are all happy that Jesus be killed on the cross.

 

[josie_L]

Jharek I would suggest for the sake of your blood pressure not to respond to Planten’s posts anymore.

 

[empurpledsoul]

inJesus, we have told you many times that Saul of Tarsus highjacked your religion very soon after Jesus had suddenly disappeared. He was an enemy of Jesus and had killed many innocent christians.But you seem to love that man, Saul.

Some one has taught you so many false lessons that you people seem to be beyond repair. You are carrying a cross (which was the enemy instrument to punish Jesus.) You know that any one who dies on a piece of wood (cross) is a cursed person (as per bibleOT). Yet you are all happy that Jesus be killed on the cross.

Did you not know that one can receive the fullness of the Gospel and the Perfect Word and Truth of God without ever including any of the texts ascribed to Paul?

And then, if you study everything first that Jesus taught in Mark, Matthew and John, you will be equipped to discern through yourself, what to accept that is attributed to Paul.

Jesus was killed by human evil, human arrogance, as a sign of humanity’s absolute need for what Jesus came to offer. That humans revealed their absolute evil is not God’s doing, but that Jesus reflected in the face of human’s worst dark will that he was full of love, mercy, grace and forgiveness is the beauty that not a single Muslim has the will or interest to grasp! And that he overcame death by walking the earth again proved that keeping Gods will, versus plotting to torture, main and kill his ‘enemies’ as the evil Muhammad did, thinking falsely this was how God showed his power, but in Jesus we see the light, the truth, the perfect love and hope of humanity which promises those who lay their life down for him will pick it up again for eternity.

Those who killed and were killed for Muhammads false cause went directly against Jesus perfect example, yet they moan and lament that we are wicked for not changing the truth in Jesus death and resurrection. They can not grasp the amazing glory in it because they are at the same level as the people who killed him, and they follow a man who believe this might of violence is Gods power and not love, they believe God wants slaughter and maiming and raiding and all sorts of evil to prove that Islam is ‘right’.

So deluded, so deluded, it is you who have eaten the wrong pill and swallowed an evil lie.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Hi Benjamin, I agree with everything you’ve said, but I’m not sure about the part about the pagans. I don’t think those polytheists really gave Muhammad such a bad time as Muslims claim. I think it was Muhammad that started the whole thing by insulting them and they finally just got fed up with him.

Vickie

Oh, well I didn´t know about that, all I know is that I`ve been told by Muslims that pagans were the ones that were against Mohammeds new religion which he invented, and Mohammed just defended himself, but in the same time used his military tactics to FORCE his religion on others!

 

[planten]

Oh, well I didn´t know about that, all I know is that I`ve been told by Muslims that pagans were the ones that were against Mohammeds new religion which he invented, and Mohammed just defended himself, but in the same time used his military tactics to FORCE his religion on others!

**Ben, you were told the truth about the persecution of early Muslims by the pagans of Makkah. It was the worst type of persecution that could be. Yet the prophet had nothing against pagans too. If they had remained calm and peaceful, the prophet would not have move against them. Specially, the prophet had no designs against the Jews and the Christians too. Nothing at all. But he preached to the people of the Books.

If the prophet had no bad intentions of hostility against the pagans then how could he have any bad plans against the Jews and the christians!!. He did not want kingdom. His kingdom was also of the other world, like that of Jesus.But the scoundrels started the wars… and hostilities… The pagans offered Muhammad teh kingdom. But he refused to accept it.

It is a simple test for you. Do you believe that the early followers of Jesus (whom i do not call christians) were persecuted? If you believe that they were persecuted by the nations for about 300 years then please believe also that the early Muslims went through a similar persecuation parade. Thanks.**

 

[Benjamin8o8]

** It is a simple test for you. Do you believe that the early followers of Jesus (whom i do not call christians)** were persecuted? If you believe that they were persecuted by the nations for about 300 years then please believe also that the early Muslims went through a similar persecuation parade. Thanks.

Hey Planten…brother,

if I may ask, why dont you call the early followrs of Jesus Christ Christians? Might it be because youre ignoring Christianity to suit your own set of beliefs?

Another question:

Have you ever thought about how Christianity grew and how Islam grew? There is a BIG difference. Christians were getting persecuted everyhwere and we were still winning converts. While Muslims were defending/attacking people and forcing conversion. Even nowadays, countries that devout themselves to Islam dont allow Christianity to be preached. Christianity still gets persecuted to this day in Islamic countries. Christians countries allow freedom of religion and they wont persecute any Christian if he/she converts to Islam. Yet there is still more Christians today then there is Muslims.

May all the myrters who died for Christ pray for us!

 

[planten]

Hey Planten…brother,

if I may ask, why dont you call the early followrs of Jesus Christ Christians? Might it be because youre ignoring Christianity to suit your own set of beliefs?

That was not any important part of my belief. I only felt that it was too early for the faith of Jesus to have travelled to Greece where it could be named as “Christianity”. In the very early period, it could not be called Christians. Anyhow, you can have your way and upper hand if you like.

Another question:

Have you ever thought about how Christianity grew and how Islam grew? There is a BIG difference. Christians were getting persecuted everyhwere and we were still winning converts. While Muslims were defending/attacking people and forcing conversion

.

** I have to check you for any wrong statement in the very beginning lest it get out of hand. You may be right about your persecution and still winning converts to christianity. But please do not blame Muslims for forcing any conversions. Never did the Muslims force any one to convert to Islam. Rather the Muslims fought the wars for the right of freedom of faith and many gave their lives for that cause in Roman territory and the Persian territory where the people were not allowed to convert to any faith. **.

Even nowadays, countries that devout themselves to Islam don`t allow Christianity to be preached. Christianity still gets persecuted to this day in Islamic countries.

** The reason for not allowing the christians to preach in Islamic countries is because they always resort to abuse in the end. The church cannot preach without abuse. The church has different scales for preaching. They want all types of illegal, irrational ideas (and freedom) for their own faith. But the church does not allow the same facility to any other faith. That is not fair. For instance, an angel can visit any one in bibleNT> But an angel cannot visit Muhammad. Why is that?

I know there are restrictions on the church preachings in Muslim countries. Some of thm are undue / bad. Please understand that it is not allowed to preach enmity (Kufr) in any faith. If the christians preach only love and no abuse then I feel that they shoud be given every facility to preach in Muslim countries. But that is never the case.**

Christians countries allow freedom of religion and they won`t persecute any Christian if he/she converts to Islam. Yet there is still more Christians today then there is Muslims.

**That is correct, because there are no real christian countries in the world now. The posters here are admitting that there is no christian country. Yet I believe you.

The reason why they allow all facility to Muslims is because they have left of any influence in the matters of way of life. there is a complete freedom for all faiths (even christians) to have multiple sex and sex without marriage. It is free for all. So why should only the Muslim preachers be banned. The Muslims should also not kill or persecute any one converting to christianity.

These western countries have not given much importance to the religious people, Muslims or christians or Jews. that is commendable. But that is not any good work of the Catholics. Please note. There is a general freedom in those countries.**

May all the myrters who died for Christ pray for us!

**I do believe that the early followers of Jesus were highly persecuted. But do you also believe that the early followers of Muhammad were highly persecuted so much that they had to leave their home and wealth and flee for their life to other cities, countires. that was my original question which you did not address at all. Please come back. Thanks.

And May Allah bless all the martyrs of the world of all faiths including the christians who gave their life for a just cause. Ameen.**

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**
The reason why they allow all facility to Muslims is because they have left of any influence in the matters of way of life. there is a complete freedom for all faiths (even **c****hristians) to have multiple sex and sex without marriage. It is free for all. So why should only the Muslim preachers be banned. The Muslims should also not kill or persecute any one converting to christianity.
COLOR]

Dont tell me that, get your collection of hadith and verses from the Koran and go to these Islamic countries and prove to them that Muslims are not allowed to persecute anyone converting to Christianity. (I like how you use lower case c for Christianity:rolleyes:) Let us see how far you will get. Something tells me that Muslims deep inside dont have any pity for Christians when getting persecuted, I mean why should they? I mean aren`t we commiting the worst sin even though their prophet Mohammed slept with with a 9 year old girl! Picture that, a 53 year old citizen sharing the bed with a fragile female who was still enterained with barbie dolls.

Muslims on the internet are trying to say persecution of other faith is forbidden, maybe they need to look back at the life of Mohammed.

 

[planten]

**Thanks Ben for not replying to my question even the second time. You had nothing except to wander off into a 9 year old story. That has proved your ill intentions, lack of Catholic love and lack of sincerity of discussions i.e your defeat. I say good-bye to you.

You could have just admitted that the the early Muslims were also highly persecuated by the pagans of Makkah as were the early chrstians. That was the easy reply. But look what you did?

Now we all know the reason why the christians are not allowed to preach in any Muslim country.**

 

[GraceDK]

**Ben, you were told the truth about the persecution of early Muslims by the pagans of Makkah. It was the worst type of persecution that could be. Yet the prophet had nothing against pagans too. If they had remained calm and peaceful, the prophet would not have move against them. Specially, the prophet had no designs against the Jews and the Christians too. Nothing at all. But he preached to the people of the Books.

If the prophet had no bad intentions of hostility against the pagans then how could he have any bad plans against the Jews and the christians!!. He did not want kingdom. His kingdom was also of the other world, like that of Jesus.But the scoundrels started the wars… and hostilities… The pagans offered Muhammad teh kingdom. But he refused to accept it.

It is a simple test for you. Do you believe that the early followers of Jesus (whom i do not call christians) were persecuted? If you believe that they were persecuted by the nations for about 300 years then please believe also that the early Muslims went through a similar persecuation parade. Thanks.**

I cant believe you… what is this… How long are you going to lie?
I know according to islam its okay to lie to the non-muslims… that by the way, I have from worth of mouth from Muslims…
The worst persecutions of people in the world today takes place in Muslim countries… deal with that. Since the time of Muhammad christians, jews and others have been persecuted and slaughtered in the name of Islam all over the world. Look at history… and look at today… why do Christians have to escape from countries.

As for your church.
Dont call the muslim brothers. It may indicate you love their ideology. Dont call a kommunist “comrade” or a nazi “brother”…
We are facing an ideology that is against human dignity. Just like nazism and communism and fanatical secularism. wake up brother Christians.

 

[planten]

I cant believe you… what is this… How long are you going to lie?
I know according to islam its okay to lie to the non-muslims… that by the way, I have from worth of mouth from Muslims…
The worst persecutions of people in the world today takes place in Muslim countries… deal with that. Since the time of Muhammad christians, jews and others have been persecuted and slaughtered in the name of Islam all over the world. Look at history… and look at today… why do Christians have to escape from countries.

** I see that you have no valid ground for any discussion with Muslims. So all your adverse remarks about Muslims are useless. i was talking about the persecution of the early Muslims in years 610 A.D… You do not seem to come around to that subject.**

As for your church.
Dont call the muslim brothers. It may indicate you love their ideology. Dont call a kommunist “comrade” or a nazi “brother”…
We are facing an ideology that is against human dignity. Just like nazism and communism and fanatical secularism. wake up brother Christians.

This part is not understood. The Communism and Nazism and fanatical secularism are all the by-products of your christian faith. Nothing to do with Islam. Would you please blame yourself about all those …isms.

 

[neploho]

I cant believe you… what is this… How long are you going to lie?
I know according to islam its okay to lie to the non-muslims… that by the way, I have from worth of mouth from Muslims…
The worst persecutions of people in the world today takes place in Muslim countries… deal with that. Since the time of Muhammad christians, jews and others have been persecuted and slaughtered in the name of Islam all over the world. Look at history… and look at today… why do Christians have to escape from countries.

As for your church.
Dont call the muslim brothers. It may indicate you love their ideology. Dont call a kommunist “comrade” or a nazi “brother”…
We are facing an ideology that is against human dignity. Just like nazism and communism and fanatical secularism. wake up brother Christians .

The kindest thing I could say to you is that you are ill informed and do not have all that firm a grasp of history, Islamic thought, or even contempory geo political realities.

The very kindest.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**Thanks Ben for not replying to my question even the second time. You had nothing except to wander off into a 9 year old story. That has proved your ill intentions, lack of Catholic love and lack of sincerity of discussions i.e your defeat. I say good-bye to you.

You could have just admitted that the the early Muslims were also highly persecuated by the pagans of Makkah as were the early chrstians. That was the easy reply. But look what you did?

Now we all know the reason why the christians are not allowed to preach in any Muslim country.**

lol come on Planten…brother

Do you really think that for a bliss second I would actually waste my time trying to answer your quesion? I mean after all of the evidence my belowed Catholic brothers and sisters provided against Mohammeds case, what do you exept from me? Chill planten, you are right, I am defeated. The hadith of Mohammed forcing his youngest wife who was just 9 years of age to wipe his semen of his clothes just hit me hard. I dont understand why I would answer your question about early Muslim persecution when we showed enough proof that Mohammed was a ruthless human being with no remorse. Just be serious for one second and you will know what I am talking about and why I didnt answer your silly questions.

Now we all know the reason why the christians are not allowed to preach in any Muslim country.

Because Islam is inspiried by the devil himself, the prince of lies, the one that knows no beuty, no truth, no life, but just wants to decieve and destroy. Us Christians don`t follow him, we have to pick up our own cross and follow the footsteps of the God-made-man Jesus Christ and suffer as He did by the men that were like Mohammed. Cruel.

 

[hamba2han]

"I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do NOT go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)

Why do Christians pay a great deal more attention to the recorded words of Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) as found in Islamic sciptures than they seem to do with the above words of Jesus (peace be upon him) as recorded in their own Bible?

Did Jesus (pbuh) himself ever preach to non-Jews throughout the entire period of his ministry?

Are Christians okay with Jesus’ own words and action of never preaching to anyone who is not among the “lost sheep of Israel”?

 

[inJESUS]

So what makes Muhammad priviledged with women more than the rest of creatures? were women a prize for his prophethood ?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

"I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do NOT go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)

Why do Christians pay a great deal more attention to the recorded words of Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) as found in Islamic sciptures than they seem to do with the above words of Jesus (peace be upon him) as recorded in their own Bible?

Did Jesus (pbuh) himself ever preach to non-Jews throughout the entire period of his ministry?

Are Christians okay with Jesus’ own words and action of never preaching to anyone who is not among the “lost sheep of Israel”?

Jesus said more then what you highlighted, I wonder why you didn´t post what else He said regarding preaching to non-Jews and others…

 

[hamba2han]

Jesus said more then what you highlighted, I wonder why you didn´t post what else He said regarding preaching to non-Jews and others…

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) too said a great deal more about her marriage to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) than what the detractors of Islam are continually highlighting.

I wonder why they don’t post the things that she said about the wonderful love that they had for one another and the blissful life that they shared together as husband and wife.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Jesus said more then what you highlighted, I wonder why you didn´t post what else He said regarding preaching to non-Jews and others…

I’m ok with Jesus’ actions: Healing the sick, loving your neighbor as yourself. Reaching out to the Samaritan woman. Didn’t Jesus preach we were to be like the Good Samaritan? How about the the Gentile woman he healed, didn’t he say she had a lot of faith?

I’m not ok with Mohammed actions, though

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah, that’s what I don’t understand, inJESUS. It seems like Muslims are keen to emphasize Muhammad’s “lowly” status as a slave of God (to use a phrase in keeping with the Muslim understanding of man’s relationship to God) in order to refute any charge that they associate partners with God as they claim we Christians do (as though being something is the same as being a partner to it!), yet there are so many threads and posts here about how Muhammad is the “greatest of all creations” or whatever, and even one recent thread how everything on Earth was created for Muhammad and his family! Well, what was it doing for the centuries before him and his many wives, then? Were the rest of us just saving it for him like a seat in a movie theater or something?

So now of course they want to say that what was disallowed the rest of humanity was allowed to Muhammad specifically by virtue of his special relationship to God as the last and best and greatest of God’s prophets. If earlier prophets could live without a dozen wives or even one despite their “prophet” status (and yes, I’m thinking of Jesus here, since Muslims are so eager to relegate Him to a status beneath Muhammad while claiming to show Him the ultimate respect), then how is it a “sign” of Muhammad’s greatness or special status that he could not? In fact, it is not even true that he could not! Did he not live with Kadijah in monogamy? Then later, by divine decree, he was authorized to take his adopted son’s wife! Why?