Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[Reuben_J]

** There is a verse of the Quran (chapter 17): " Those who are blind in this world will be raised blind in the next life too." Of course the spiritual blindness is meant here because in the very next few words of same verse it says " and they will be more misguided than before." **

If you are so eloquent in explaning this, I hope you have the intelligence to understand Christians’ explanation of the Bibical verses.

**The problem is that Hamba2han has presented some clear words of the bible that:

1. Jesus came only for the lost sheep of Israel. i.e the Jews.
2. He forabde his disciples to preach to any non-Jew.
3. He again told his apostles not to preach to any gentile (non-Jew.)
4. Jesus said that preaching to non-Jews was like giving the bread of the children to the dogs.**

The ignorance of it all.

**I n the presence of such hard core orders from Jesus, how come the church is batting on a wrong (weak) wicket i.e. some odd verse of Mathew ch. 28. It means that church can change course as it likes and ignores the express habits and orders of Jesus, i.e the eating habits and the verbal orders altogether. Where is Jesus then? **

This is an understanding of an idiot that is not consistent with you who can explain scriptural verses very well. Why do you do this?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Thanks Pam. I just want to make sure my questions are included in the actions of Mohammad that he approved of. By asking him the specific questions I wanted him to answer them unequivocally clear and frankly. I want him to say, “I approve of a 53 year old to have sex with a nine year old child. …” Something that comes out of his own mouth so that when he says it he knows he will be accountable for what he says. I want him to say it with full conscience and perhaps looking at me in the eyes, so to speak.

There is too much ambiguity sometimes we can never know for sure what their stand is. Someone says it’s ‘takkiya’ but we never know until we hear it from themselves.

This was exactly the point of this thread.

 

[empurpledsoul]

Well…maybe Planten is just too lazy to look up for the explanation to his questions. Or he will himself not to see.

I have witnessed his ‘questions’ thoroughly and directly answered with scriptural references by other people he posed the same ‘response’ to (cuz he uses it for a cut and paste response and not a question).

Repeatedly.

So I would feel safe to say he is willing himself to not see, to remain blind.

Therefore I find it very ironic that he posts text from Islam that speaks of spiritual blindness.

 

[GraceDK]

Jesus vs mohammed

Matt 1:18-25 Jesus was born of a virgin.
Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69 mohammed was born of a normal woman.

Luke 2:39-52 Jesus served God as a child.
Bukhari vol6 p452 mohammed was an idolater.

Luke 4:16-21 Jesus read the Bible.
koran 7:156 mohammed was illiterate.

Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3 Jesus preached the gospel at God’s commnd and lived on the donations of others.
Ibn Hisham pp281- mohammed, wihtout being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods.

Mark 3:9-10 Jesus performed miracles.
koran 29:49 mohammed could not perform miracles.

Luke 18:35-43 Jesus made blind eyes see.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made seeing eyes blind.

Matt 9:2-8 Jesus made the lame walk.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made the walking lame.

Matt. 12:10-13 Jesus healed withered hands. (mohammed said to chop them off)
John 11:1-45 Jesus raised the dead.
Ibn Hisham p. 308 mohammed had the living killed.

Luke 23:43 Jesus forgave His opponents.
Bukhari vol5 pp248- mohammed had his opponents murdered, even an old man over 100 yrs old and a woman still suckling her baby.

John 8:1-11 Jesus set the condemned free.
Ibn Hisham p466 mohammed condemned the free and led them into slavery.

Luke 20:1 Jesus preached in God’s chosen temple.
Bukahri vol1 p151 mohammed prayed at the kabaa when it still contained hundreds of idols.

Matt 5:31-32 Jesus preached against divorce.
koran 2:230 mohammed preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation.
Bukhari vol7 p8

John 8:46 Jesus was sinless.
koran 47:21 mohammed was sinful.
koran 110

John 1:29 and 10:18 Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind.
Bukhari vol5 p510 mohammed died unexpectedly of illness which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt. At the time of his death he cursed others.

Luke 23 and 24 Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day after His death, and later ascended into heaven.
al-Tabari vol9 p208 mohammed rots. mohammed was buried in Medina on the 3rd day after his death. His tomb is vistited by
pilgrims each year.

Jesus was a religious leader.
mohammed was a warlord.

Jesus never killed anyone.
mohammed killed an estimated 3,000 people, including 700 Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina, AD 627. And that was just a start of his killing spree, and that of his followers.
Jesus never owned slaves.
mohammed received a 5th of the prisoners taken in battle, including women and children, surah 8:41

Jesus never married
mohammed had many wives and slave girls. Bukhari, vol1 bk5 no268

Jesus never forced followers to continue believing. John 6:31-69
mohammed forced followers to continue believing, ‘Whoever changed his islamic religion, then kill him.’ Bukhari vol9 bok84 no57

A martyr in Christian and Jewish thought is one who dies for his faith.
A martyr in islamic ‘thought’ is one who dies for his faith while killing infidels.
Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. surah 9:123, 66:9
Fight those who believe not in allah nor the last day. surah 9:29

Jesus’ religion is known for forgiveness and love.
mohammed’s religion is known for submission and fear.

None of Jesus’ Apostles led armies. Luke 9:52-56
All of the caliphs who followed mohammed led armies. Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar Uthman, Lai, Muawiyya, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, etc)

Thank you brother.

I hope as many Muslims see your post as possible. Secular culture of America and Europe is falling on their tail in political correctness. They negotiate with Islam just like many countries did with Hitler untill it was too late when it turned out he was serious about his sick theories and his sick book.

In Denmark there was a recent poll saying that 50 percent of all Muslims in this democracy are against freedom of religious critizism.
But the Europeans dont care. they are blinded by their decadence and idolatries and wont realise it until the plague comes over them.

All of the Body of Christ has to stand together and take up the True Word as a sword and be true to our Lord and Messiah who said: “There is no way to the Father except through Me”.

 

[empurpledsoul]

Only a lie and a liar fears being exposed through critical examination. The truth can bear it and does not fear it.

 

[dolphinlove]

Im reading some of the responses on this thread and cant help but laugh.
The responses we are getting from planten and hammy are comical to say the least!
I challenge planten and hammy to respond with the following actions:

1. Truthfully
2. With facts and evidence
3. Quoting parts of the bible with an actual understanding of it.

I will now stand back and see if both of you can actually do any of these…

 

[R_not]

Thank you brother.

I hope as many Muslims see your post as possible. Secular culture of America and Europe is falling on their tail in political correctness. They negotiate with Islam just like many countries did with Hitler untill it was too late when it turned out he was serious about his sick theories and his sick book.

In Denmark there was a recent poll saying that 50 percent of all Muslims in this democracy are against freedom of religious critizism.
But the Europeans dont care. they are blinded by their decadence and idolatries and wont realise it until the plague comes over them.

All of the Body of Christ has to stand together and take up the True Word as a sword and be true to our Lord and Messiah who said: “There is no way to the Father except through Me”.

I actually don’t hold out too much hope that post would change their minds because we have gone over mohammed’s words and actions quite often and they defend him, tell us that we are bashing, etc - you have read their junk.

And as for Europe, this is why I have been so disappointed in the Pope and the clergy there. There is no apparent effort to reach out. And they should worry, countries like Bosnia/Kosovo are in their back yards (look at a map and you will see). With the spread of islam in Europe, the rise in crime with muslims committing over 70% of the crimes and they commit them against non-muslims - they have a problem. See Geert Wilders’ speech about all of this in Europe. This is the speech in Florida on Apr 27, 2009.

We have a Pope giving out mixed messages, the ones previously were worse in their message about islam. This blind acceptance of taking the muslim’s words that they are ‘Abrahamic’ is also junk.

 

[GraceDK]

I actually don’t hold out too much hope that post would change their minds because we have gone over mohammed’s words and actions quite often and they defend him, tell us that we are bashing, etc - you have read their junk.

We have a Pope giving out mixed messages, the ones previously were worse in their message about islam. This blind acceptance of taking the muslim’s words that they are ‘Abrahamic’ is also junk.

Yes… I am deeply concerned about this too… wanting to serve the Lord in and with the Church I find it sad to see how it seems even the Church is asleep. Its like… they too are politically correct. There are in fact many converts to Islam in Europe, not because Islam is the truth, but because the Muslims actually believe the Islam they preach. People are soo lost in the spiritual void of secularism and decadence… they fall prey to the first lie that presents it self and says: “Come, I will give you an identity”. Who can blame them. If I was an unstudied westerner who had never looked into Christianity I myself probably would have become Muslim because every person needs to pray… and who do they see praying on tv and walking around with prayerbeads and in funny religious costumes?.. The Muslims.

The Church is lethargic and political and too gentle… Many traditional christians have begun to take their faith for granted… they have become accustomed to sitting down and eating cookies and coffee.
I dont get it, but I think it has to do with the particular structure of the Catholic Church. Its causing passivity very much, compared to Evangelical assemblies… In this age I thank God for the Evangelicals… they are missionaries in vast numbers. They dont just give to the body but also to the soul…
Anyway… this is off topic.

 

[tomarin]

I hope as many Muslims see your post as possible. Secular culture of America and Europe is falling on their tail in political correctness. They negotiate with Islam just like many countries did with Hitler untill it was too late when it turned out he was serious about his sick theories and his sick book.

Grace, while I agree that there are many objectionable things about Islam, and we shouldn’t be shy about pointing them out, as a European, don’t you think there are parallels between the way that modern-day anti-Muslim polemicists present an exaggerated picture of Islam that is intended (as far as I can tell) to scare people into supporting policies that they support, and the way the Third Reich used Jews for the same purpose?

 

[R_not]

Grace, while I agree that there are many objectionable things about Islam, and we shouldn’t be shy about pointing them out, as a European, don’t you think there are parallels between the way that modern-day anti-Muslim polemicists present an exaggerated picture of Islam that is intended (as far as I can tell) to scare people into supporting policies that they support, and the way the Third Reich used Jews for the same purpose?

Grace can answer - I am not trying to usurp her, but I have an opinion on this too.

No, there is no comparison. In fact, the ones who have increased the crime rates in Europe are the muslims. And many of their crimes are just because someone is Jewish, or Christian. period. So, if you want to put out an analogy - then you need to study the situation better, don’t act like a victim (or at least put islam in the ‘victimhood’ category), and be real.

There are many books out about the crime rates, you probably can do web searches and Geert Wilders brings this all out in his speeches.
While Europe Slept and/or Menace in Europe and/or Eurasia (these books are similar

Geert Wilders’ speech .

We have been finding more mosques and madrassas teaching/preaching hatred against non-muslims in Europe, the UK and our own USA.

 

[tomarin]

No, there is no comparison. In fact, the ones who have increased the crime rates in Europe are the muslims. And many of their crimes are just because someone is Jewish, or Christian. period. So, if you want to put out an analogy - then you need to study the situation better, don’t act like a victim (or at least put islam in the ‘victimhood’ category), and be real.

It just seems to me worth remarking that everything that is wrong with the world according to you guys (and gals) appears to be related to Muslims. That certainly is similar to how the Third Reich viewed their “Jewish problem”. (Of course the analogy is also very limited, as I’ll be the first to admit, because there was no “radical Judaism” that occasionally delivered a direct hit to German civilians or soldiers stationed overseas.)

As for the crime issue, it would be interesting to see some statistics (cue Mark Twain). I lived in France for a year in 1988-89 and I know that there is a substantial “underclass” in each French city that is largely composed of youths of African and Magrhebian background; it’s a legacy of French colonialism. Furthermore, they did not seem very religious to me (although maybe things have changed). I will confirm one part of what you’re saying, though, which is that it is well documented that “hate crimes” against Jews in Europe have increased the past few years, and some of them have been quite sickening. In the United States, however, where I live, Muslim immigrants appear very law-abiding.

We have been finding more mosques and madrassas teaching/preaching hatred against non-muslims in Europe, the UK and our own USA.

That’s very wrong.

 

[GraceDK]

Grace, while I agree that there are many objectionable things about Islam, and we shouldn’t be shy about pointing them out, as a European, don’t you think there are parallels between the way that modern-day anti-Muslim polemicists present an exaggerated picture of Islam that is intended (as far as I can tell) to scare people into supporting policies that they support, and the way the Third Reich used Jews for the same purpose?

Anti-Muslim polemics are never fruitful.
Islam criticism must be a reality here in Europe even more than it is now.

Firstly, I want to make it clear to you that there has been an extreme rise in anti-semitic acts corresponding to Muslim immigration in recent years. In my country even the Jews are afraid to wear religious clothes, they wont stand up in the news so that people will know they are Jews, they live in fear and why. I give a few examples… a few years ago a Jewish teacher at university was quoting the Koran. He was not using it in any hostile way. Simply he quoted it. Afterwards he was beaten up by Muslims. We have cases of Jews being attacked in the busses if Muslim passagers realise they are Jews. And I could go on… alright? do you care about the Jews… then you must realise something about the ideology of islam…

We have cities in Europe where as many as 30-50 percent of the population now comes from muslim countries, we have critical politicians living under ground and with body guards for critizising Islam, we have polygami in the ghettos and female mutilation and forced marriages, and honour killings as well as gang rape of danish girls by arab-immigrants, a phenomenon we are not used to in this part of the world. We have public meetings of Hitz-but-Tahrir who are a fanatic islamist group who promotes the kalifath… that means the abolision of democracy
we have socalled moderate Muslim debators and politicians in our midst who advocate sharia in our country. We have polls saying that 50 percent of Muslims want to make critizism of islam illegal. In Holland its worse. I talked to a friend of mine, a nice Christian girl. She says she is harassed when she go in the city on her bike. She is called: Dutch b… . She told me: I will be a refuge. I cannot live in my country anymore.

All these organisations and utterances and gatherings of Muslims take place with the democratic right although what comes out of their mouth is everything but harmless. But they have freedom of speech, worship and conscience here in Denmark. Even our corporations sell hallal-meat in order to please the Muslims.

There is a massive tendency among many Muslims to call the Danish population by racist and degrading names and to really be ungrateful for the help they have received from the Danish state that pays for their education and housing. Such was the case also last year when riots broke out, busses were valdalised, stones thrown and places and cars set on fire… what the reason? Neither ambulances nor police could go into certain areas of the city to assist the needy without being attacked by people with rocks (a middle eastern phenomenon) The politically correct immediately said: these people are being discriminated… they dont have enough TVs… they feel outside… therefore they act like this.
Nonsense.

In other words … You cannot at all compare the Jews with the Muslims in todays Europe. The Jews gave no reason for discrimination other than their well integrated success in business and their rather set-apart traditions of clothes and customs.
They did not act violence or talk against the country or democracy. They simply were Jews.

I do no critizise muslims because they are arabs or somalis or kurts, but I critizise their religion which according to my studies promote the behaviour that I have described…

Thanks for hanging inthere…
Peace.

 

[R_not]

It just seems to me worth remarking that everything that is wrong with the world according to you guys (and gals) appears to be related to Muslims. That certainly is similar to how the Third Reich viewed their “Jewish problem”. (Of course the analogy is also very limited, as I’ll be the first to admit, because there was no “radical Judaism” that occasionally delivered a direct hit to German civilians or soldiers stationed overseas.)

As for the crime issue, it would be interesting to see some statistics (cue Mark Twain). I lived in France for a year in 1988-89 and I know that there is a substantial “underclass” in each French city that is largely composed of youths of African and Magrhebian background; it’s a legacy of French colonialism. Furthermore, they did not seem very religious to me (although maybe things have changed). I will confirm one part of what you’re saying, though, which is that it is well documented that “hate crimes” against Jews in Europe have increased the past few years, and some of them have been quite sickening. In the United States, however, where I live, Muslim immigrants appear very law-abiding.

That’s very wrong.

The comment about ‘That’s very wrong’ needs to be refuted by you. You need to prove me wrong, I will - once again - provide proof that it is indeed correct and even after being caught - the clerics will outright lie about what is happening, xerox off the stuff that was noted that they should toss so they use the xeroxed items instead, and it is just getting worse rather than the opposite. Now, there is so many proofs to back up my assertions I cannot possibly post them all - but here goes:

Undercover Mosque part 1:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d7d9bf74191e006d8e24

Undercover Mosque part 2:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=b6df5b5e3f94d95b11da

Undercover Mosque part 3:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=b34375400904f03d8e6a

Undercover Mosque part 4:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2576bd1ac5aaf16b3fca

Undercover Mosque part 5:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=28e489b44e954ec0b9bc

Undercover Mosque part 6:
tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=c962aa0d22ac97d69b79

mosques in Italy preaching hatred

3 mosques in Gaza used as weapons, ammunitions and explosives depots that were struck by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the operation in Gaza .

Take note this mosque - stockpiling
weapons.

‘moderate’ Sheik yusuf Al-Qaradawi preaching jihad in America (and it ain’t that ‘inner
struggle’ kind!)

Some videos on the Stealth jihad in the USA: jihadwatch.org/archives/023846.php
Also goes into what is going on in American mosques.

 

[tomarin]

The comment about ‘That’s very wrong’ needs to be refuted by you.

What I meant was, it’s wrong of those mullahs to preach hatred in their mosques and madrassas.

 

[R_not]

As for the comparison of muslims to being the victims in Europe - here is some more to show that the muslims are the ones behaving as the Nazis. Even though they are the immigrants, they are the ones who are committing the crimes against people just because they are not muslims.

In France alone there are 700 ‘sensitive urban areas’ that non-muslims take their lives into their hands if they enter it while muslims fully expect freedom of movement outside of these areas. (Newsmax Jan 2009, p9)

Then there is integration into their host lands. They have no intention of integrating and that alone speaks of their intentions. While they openly say they want, by a stealth jihad, by 2050 to be islamicized. They are using not only deception, but immigration/uncontrolled birth rates, terror/crime, infiltration (with the sole purpose of not integrating but working towards establishing the abyssmal sharia laws - human rights disasters), etc.

 

[R_not]

What I meant was, it’s wrong of those mullahs to preach hatred in their mosques and madrassas.

Sorry, but this falls short. While I show proof that they do it - none walk out while they do this. In fact, this silence is acceptance in islam.

Its Bukhari b9, v86, n101
Muhammad: “Silence is consent.”

When there are just masses and masses of muslims who keep telling us they are ‘mainstream’, or ‘peaceful’ - and do nothing then that is acceptance. Especially when an organization such as hamas is defended by them as we saw this year in the Israeli/Gaza war. When the cease fire didn’t even last a day and hamas resumed their lobbing of the bombs into Israel and the muslims don’t stop them - no muslim country cared, no muslim group cared. Oh, they certainly shouted the ‘go back to the ovens’ though.

Sorry, but I have heard the ‘this is wrong’ from muslims before and it just doesn’t wash anymore.

 

[tomarin]

do you care about the Jews… then you must realise something about the ideology of islam…

Yes, I care about Jews, but I also care about opposing demagoguery, and a lot of what I see in the work of anti-Muslim polemicists on the internet appears to be a form of demagoguery.

In other words … You cannot at all compare the Jews with the Muslims in todays Europe. The Jews gave no reason for discrimination other than their well integrated success in business and their rather set-apart traditions of clothes and customs.
They did not act violence or talk against the country or democracy. They simply were Jews.

I do no critizise muslims because they are arabs or somalis or kurts, but I critizise their religion which according to my studies promote the behaviour that I have described…

So your point is that there is a real danger from Muslims in Europe because they are violent and intolerant, especially against women and Jews. But isn’t this at bottom a stereotype? And didn’t the Third Reich stereotype Jews in order to gain popular support for their policies? So if I’m right at least the methodology of the Third Reich and anti-Muslim polemicists may be compared.

 

[tomarin]

Sorry, but this falls short. While I show proof that they do it - none walk out while they do this. In fact, this silence is acceptance in islam.

R_not, once again you seem to be under some misconception about what I meant when I said “that was wrong”. I don’t have time to explain a second time the plain meaning of my words so I’m going to move on.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes Dzheremi, seeems women are prophethood’s prize according to Muhammad but Muslims of course see it as something “good” because “Muhammad did it”.

 

[R_not]

Yes, I care about Jews, but I also care about opposing demagoguery, and a lot of what I see in the work of anti-Muslim polemicists on the internet appears to be a form of demagoguery.

So your point is that there is a real danger from Muslims in Europe because they are violent and intolerant, especially against women and Jews. But isn’t this at bottom a stereotype? And didn’t the Third Reich stereotype Jews in order to gain popular support for their policies? So if I’m right at least the methodology of the Third Reich and anti-Muslim polemicists may be compared.

Stop this comparison of muslims being the victims as the Jews were in Nazi Germany.

What about the Jews, Christians and others who are in muslim lands??!?!!?? While the crimes against non-muslims are skyrocketing in Europe, and while active persecution in muslim lands against non-muslims are happening - you continue to think that muslims should be equated with some sort of victim.

They go to Europe, suck up the welfare, increase the crimes against non-muslims, have no intention of integrating with their host nations but instead outwardly say they want Europe and practice sharia laws in their communities making it dangerous for others.

Then you keep telling me what? That I am misunderstanding you?

No, I am not misunderstanding you. You are the one writing the comparison. You are, to me, just another muslim saying it is wrong while trying to convince us of that and DO NOTHING to convince your own to stop their imperialistic jihad.

islam is the one that divides us up into believers and unbelievers while dehumanizing the unbelievers. Then you, and other muslims, come to us saying - oh, yes you are right there are many bad things in islam - but do nothing.

Actions speak louder than words at this point.

“A moderate Islam does not exist. It does not exist because there is no difference between Good Islam and Bad Islam. There is Islam and that it the end of it. Islam is the Koran, and nothing other than the Koran.“
(Oriana Fallaci”The Force of Reason” post-script page 305 February 2006)]

The muslims are as much a victim in Europe as they are victims in the Gaza, Bosnia/Kosovo, Africa, etc - they are NOT victims. What they do is start twisting the facts to act like their victims are the ones who started the violence, wail and whine so well and so loudly, etc to gain sympathy. What do we see - women training and willingly letting their children go be jihadists in the Gaza. Willingly encouraging their children to be martyrs. And it is indeed love - a love and hate so twisted in their minds created by islam that it is just sick.