Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[GraceDK]

Yes, I care about Jews, but I also care about opposing demagoguery, and a lot of what I see in the work of anti-Muslim polemicists on the internet appears to be a form of demagoguery.

So your point is that there is a real danger from Muslims in Europe because they are violent and intolerant, especially against women and Jews. But isn’t this at bottom a stereotype? And didn’t the Third Reich stereotype Jews in order to gain popular support for their policies? So if I’m right at least the methodology of the Third Reich and anti-Muslim polemicists may be compared.

I do not know such fancy words… demagoguery… I am not native American.

Is it a stereotype? If I quote events that has taken place here am I stereotyping? If I quote poll-results saying Muslims want to make religious critizism illegal, am I stereotyping?
We have some serious problems here with the inherent ideology of Islam and the effect that Islam has on cultures… We see vast difficulties in our society, okay?
Besides, wherever we find Islamic states we see persecution of Christians (open doors ministry… go there) we see that women don’t have equal rights, we see that Jews are under severe pressure.

Do you understand that there are words in the Koran that, when taken to be divine authority, are dangerous for modern societies if there are enough followers of the ideology in a specific country?

I don’t think there is any comparison with the methodology I use and the conspiracy-theories of anti-semitism both in Nazism and in the Middle East today. Jews were called subhuman, infiltrators, rats…

I have called no Muslim any bad name.

If you see me on a thread talking about the problems of secularism and its view on human dignity, then you will also see me pointing out all the examples to illustrate the promiscuity, the abortion rates, the relativism, etc, and in doing this it will be understood that I think these people should become Christians and that the ideology they live with is keeping them chained … Am I then discrimonating them… am I making stereotypes again… or is that only possible if I talk about dangerous trends within the muslim revelation?

If you find the topic too narrow, you dont have to be on this debate if you would rather debate the problems of hinduism, clerical misuse, Obamas politics or whatever…

Peace.
And now i will not answer more about this from you. I am here to discuss Islam something else and with Muslims…

 

[R_not]

demagoguery : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

Basically, what you are seeing are the muslims twisting the facts so as to be the demagogues and accusing others of being it. They are slick. The create the stats, false claims, and then say we are doing it to make them the victims. The muslims in the Gaza, and their supporters, do it too.

I usually take that sort of name calling, like I take the name calling of being a ‘fascist’, ‘nazi’, etc to mean that the person throwing out that as being the one who it is referring to. I see the same sort of tactic used by our liberal left wing. But, they throw out those terms and don’t even know the history or meaning of the words.

 

[tomarin]

I do not know such fancy words… demagoguery… I am not native American.

“Demogoguery: a political strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public – typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist and populist themes.”

Is it a stereotype? If I quote events that has taken place here am I stereotyping?

Yes, if it’s not representative of the group as a whole. You obviously believe that it is, but you haven’t shown that it is simply by listing some anecdotes (horrible as they may be).

Do you understand that there are words in the Koran that, when taken to be divine authority, are dangerous for modern societies if there are enough followers of the ideology in a specific country?

Absolutely. That is typical of religion in general.

I don’t think there is any comparison with the methodology I use and the conspiracy-theories of anti-semitism both in Nazism and in the Middle East today. Jews were called subhuman, infiltrators, rats…

I have called no Muslim any bad name.

You deserve credit for that. But the German propagandists also said the Jews were grasping, immoral, two-faced, etc. and all of that and more I have heard about Muslims on the Internet. (I know Muslims in real life too and they have not struck me that way, or at least not more than any other people.)

If you see me on a thread talking about the problems of secularism and its view on human dignity, then you will also see me pointing out all the examples to illustrate the promiscuity, the abortion rates, the relativism, etc, and in doing this it will be understood that I think these people should become Christians and that the ideology they live with is keeping them chained … Am I then discrimonating them… am I making stereotypes again… or is that only possible if I talk about dangerous trends within the muslim revelation?

Not sure I follow you here.

If you find the topic too narrow, you dont have to be on this debate if you would rather debate the problems of hinduism, clerical misuse, Obamas politics or whatever…

Peace.
And now i will not answer more about this from you. I am here to discuss Islam something else and with Muslims…

Was it something I said?

 

[dolphinlove]

Stop this comparison of muslims being the victims as the Jews were in Nazi Germany.

What about the Jews, Christians and others who are in muslim lands??!?!!?? While the crimes against non-muslims are skyrocketing in Europe, and while active persecution in muslim lands against non-muslims are happening - you continue to think that muslims should be equated with some sort of victim.

They go to Europe, suck up the welfare, increase the crimes against non-muslims, have no intention of integrating with their host nations but instead outwardly say they want Europe and practice sharia laws in their communities making it dangerous for others.

Then you keep telling me what? That I am misunderstanding you?

No, I am not misunderstanding you. You are the one writing the comparison. You are, to me, just another muslim saying it is wrong while trying to convince us of that and DO NOTHING to convince your own to stop their imperialistic jihad.

islam is the one that divides us up into believers and unbelievers while dehumanizing the unbelievers. Then you, and other muslims, come to us saying - oh, yes you are right there are many bad things in islam - but do nothing.

Actions speak louder than words at this point.

“A moderate Islam does not exist. It does not exist because there is no difference between Good Islam and Bad Islam. There is Islam and that it the end of it. Islam is the Koran, and nothing other than the Koran.“
(Oriana Fallaci”The Force of Reason” post-script page 305 February 2006)]

The muslims are as much a victim in Europe as they are victims in the Gaza, Bosnia/Kosovo, Africa, etc - they are NOT victims. What they do is start twisting the facts to act like their victims are the ones who started the violence, wail and whine so well and so loudly, etc to gain sympathy. What do we see - women training and willingly letting their children go be jihadists in the Gaza. Willingly encouraging their children to be martyrs. And it is indeed love - a love and hate so twisted in their minds created by islam that it is just sick.

Ive missed you! :hug3:

 

[R_not]

Ive missed you! :hug3:

Thanks! I missed you too!!

 

[Lothair]

It just seems to me worth remarking that everything that is wrong with the world according to you guys (and gals) appears to be related to Muslims. That certainly is similar to how the Third Reich viewed their “Jewish problem”. (Of course the analogy is also very limited, as I’ll be the first to admit, because there was no “radical Judaism” that occasionally delivered a direct hit to German civilians or soldiers stationed overseas.)

As for the crime issue, it would be interesting to see some statistics (cue Mark Twain). I lived in France for a year in 1988-89 and I know that there is a substantial “underclass” in each French city that is largely composed of youths of African and Magrhebian background; it’s a legacy of French colonialism. Furthermore, they did not seem very religious to me (although maybe things have changed). I will confirm one part of what you’re saying, though, which is that it is well documented that “hate crimes” against Jews in Europe have increased the past few years, and some of them have been quite sickening. In the United States, however, where I live, Muslim immigrants appear very law-abiding.

Tomarin:

As I suspected, you are a Muslim. While your profile has you as a Catholic, almost all of your posts are in defense of Islam. You are subtle, but transparent.

Since we are talking about poverty and colonialism; what effect do you think Islamic colonialism has had on poverty throughout Africa and in places like Pakistan? Do you feel more comfortable just blaming the West? Can’t we trace the unskilled underclass in France right back to centuries of Islamic theology and practice, which entices Islamic expansionalist to suppress the native cultural themes and crush the types of reflective judgment typically found in the European cultures?

Muslims are hoping to overwhelm Western civilization with violence and demagogy After all, anyone familiar with Islamic propaganda can witness to hundreds of examples of Muslims appelaing to the prejudices of your ‘prophet’ in order to silence non-Muslim majorities and encite hatred against Jews. With regard to your reference to ‘hate crimes against Jews’ in Europe. You are of course speaking of recent rallies in which large bands of Muslims in Europe chanted ‘heil Hitler’ and shouted ‘Jews back in the ovens’, while throwing nazi salutes, right? It is Islam which holds that the ‘Jewish problem’ can be solved by emulating Hitler.

Aren’t Muslims immigrants in the U.S. very law abidding because they cannot yet force Islamic practice on the non-Muslim majority?

 

[tomarin]

As I suspected, you are a Muslim.

My wife will be very surprised to learn that. So will my parish priest.

While your profile has you as a Catholic, almost all of your posts are in defense of Islam.

I post on all kinds of topics. And I don’t “defend” Islam – I have stated many times that I believe Mohammad was a false prophet. But that is no reason to say all kinds of incorrect or misleading things about Muslims or their religion. I would do the same thing for Jews if there were lots of posts here about their “blood libel”. You completely misunderstand me.

You are subtle, but transparent.

Thanks for the compliment.

Since we are talking about poverty and colonialism; what effect do you think Islamic colonialism has had on poverty throughout Africa and in places like Pakistan? Do you feel more comfortable just blaming the West? Can’t we trace the unskilled underclass in France right back to centuries of Islamic theology and practice, which entices Islamic expansionalist to suppress the native cultural themes and crush the types of reflective judgment typically found in the European cultures?

I’m not “blaming the West”, just explaining why there are Muslims in France.

Muslims are hoping to overwhelm Western civilization with violence and demagogy After all, anyone familiar with Islamic propaganda can witness to hundreds of examples of Muslims appelaing to the prejudices of your ‘prophet’ in order to silence non-Muslim majorities and encite hatred against Jews. With regard to your reference to ‘hate crimes against Jews’ in Europe. You are of course speaking of recent rallies in which large bands of Muslims in Europe chanted ‘heil Hitler’ and shouted ‘Jews back in the ovens’, while throwing nazi salutes, right? It is Islam which holds that the ‘Jewish problem’ can be solved by emulating Hitler.

No, I was thinking of a recent (well 2 years ago) kidnapping and killing of a young Jewish Parisian man by some teenage thugs of North African descent.

Aren’t Muslims immigrants in the U.S. very law abidding because they cannot yet force Islamic practice on the non-Muslim majority?

Not necessarily.

 

[R_not]

tomarin;5139907:

Aren’t Muslims immigrants in the U.S. very law abidding because they cannot yet force Islamic practice on the non-Muslim majority?

Not for lack of trying. They silence people via lawsuits and threats.

They silenced Michael Savage. They tried silencing the speech that Geert Wilders gave in Florida. They are trying to stop the FBI from going inside their mosques in L.A. If they have nothing to hide - then what is the problem?! As usual there is a litany of these types of things against individuals and also businesses.

CAIR is currently upset because our Feds have ‘kicked them out’ of their lobbying efforts. (Obama has CAIR lawyers, just an fyi)

The MSA on many of our campuses have protested and shouted anti-semitic remarks and even on some here in California (UCIrvine for one) had violence against Jews.

Tensions are indeed an issue in some areas where muslim majorities live.

And what happened in Waco is being echoed in over 30 muslim compounds around the USA - weapons stockpiling, in some instances they have gone underground to continue their training because they were alarming their neighbors. (The Third Jihad, a DVD) And an article about this: Nuetering the Constitution (the Gates of Vienna)

Here is something that was advertised that every Westerner should view. And what bothers me about this and so much from islam is that it always comes from the clerics. And it is so easy for individual muslims to say ‘I don’t know that guy’, or debunk him in some other way; but the problem is that this sort of thing is going on in too many places.

 

[empurpledsoul]

Only those with the fear of being exposed as something dark or evil will silence ‘criticism’.

 

[planten]

Only those with the fear of being exposed as something dark or evil will silence ‘criticism’.

**GraceDK also wants criticism to continue and does not like any ban on criticism and abuse. If that is the case, it would be free for all. the Catholics would not like their beloved one to be crticised at all. here on the net also the Catholics are swollen big with anger the moment a word of truth is said about Jesus and his private life.

Where goes their sense of liberty and criticism? It is all false and bad attitude. There is no truth in the christianity now. They are beating a broken drum in the world which is poducing a horrible sound.

So please do not silence any kind of criticism, if you are balanced mind and justified. Permit the criticism of all faiths including the criticism of Jesus, Mary and Mary Magd and the children of Mary. Otherwise disallow all abuse and criticism.

The best policy is not to allow any criticism and abuse of any faith.
Thanks.**

 

[neploho]

Then you keep telling me what? That I am misunderstanding you?

No, I am not misunderstanding you. You are the one writing the comparison. You are, to me, just another muslim saying it is wrong while trying to convince us of that and DO NOTHING to convince your own to stop their imperialistic jihad.
.

Yes you are. Being a racist and more than a bit of a moron porbably play a role in this.

 

[neploho]

Lothair;5140787:

They are trying to stop the FBI from going inside their mosques in L.A. If they have nothing to hide - then what is the problem?!

It just gets better and better:thumbsup:

 

[GraceDK]

**GraceDK also wants criticism to continue and does not like any ban on criticism and abuse. If that is the case, it would be free for all. the Catholics would not like their beloved one to be crticised at all. here on the net also the Catholics are swollen big with anger the moment a word of truth is said about Jesus and his private life.

Where goes their sense of liberty and criticism? It is all false and bad attitude. There is no truth in the christianity now. They are beating a broken drum in the world which is poducing a horrible sound.

So please do not silence any kind of criticism, if you are balanced mind and justified. Permit the criticism of all faiths including the criticism of Jesus, Mary and Mary Magd and the children of Mary. Otherwise disallow all abuse and criticism.

The best policy is not to allow any criticism and abuse of any faith.
Thanks.**

I don’t follow you Planten.
I think your views on this are way too simplistic. If you want to critizise the Lord Jesus or His Mother for something they did and call their morality questionable, of course you are free to do so. In fact its your duty to point out cruelty etc and protest against it whereever you see it, most of all if its comitted by a religious leader, like Muhammad or Jesus. Why? because these persons claimed to be prophets and even Jesus claimed more than that. So their life must be open for scrutiny. In Scripture we are even urged to “test the Spirits”.
Why, because if a religious leader falls into sin or lies then he takes many with him into damnation.

I have not found any fault in Jesus Christ while I find Muhammad unworthy of any religious title whatsoever after studying the Koran and Hadith.
We must scrutinize and test religions and ideologies, or we let ourselves and others be prey to stupidity and then the atheists indeed can say that religious people are unintelligent.

I love Jesus and I love my family and friends.
Does that mean I wont acknowlege a faults and failures of one of these, because I love them? Why would I not? They are humans. To lie or cover up the evil that exists is like excusing and accepting the ills… why not uproot the evil instead?
I have a dear friends who are steeped in immoral living. If I was asked about it directy from a third party who already knew, I would say: “yes, what you say is regrettably true… this person has done/is doing this.”
Covering up does never helped anyone.

Now also, let me ask you… Muhammad came and challenged the religions that were dominating in his time and area, Judaism, Christianity (although a heretic sect) and pagan religion. His allah critizises and he critisises these religions … so ??? He did something wrong? or is it only a Muslim who is allowed to critizise and have religious freedom etc…

Grace.

 

[GraceDK]

tomarin;
“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogy”]Demogoguery: a political strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public – typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist and populist themes."

Hehe… I am not trying to get political power. I can assure you of that. But I do feel morally obligated to point out that there are some very dangerous tendencies in the ideology and religion of Islam that the West and the Church has to be keenly aware about. Daniel Ali, a convert from Islam to Catholicism wrote in his book, that wherever Islam dominates it has serious implications for the human dignity… And we do see that clearly, those of us who study and daily follow the news from Islamic and Muslim countries and who live in European countries where basic freedom rights are suddenly under debate, not to mention that the Christian secret mission in islamic countries tell usabout unfathomable and grave persecution to varying degree all over the Muslim world. You may choose to play mr. nice… but its our brothers and sisters that suffer.

Yes, if it’s not representative of the group as a whole. You obviously believe that it is, but you haven’t shown that it is simply by listing some anecdotes (horrible as they may be).

With all due respect, you put words into my mouth. We have many moderate Muslims that do well in Western democracy, they go about their business and daily life and bother no one. But what I seek here, is to describe tendencies and deep illnesses in the Muslim religion and world view, which has implications for millions through history and also today. I have stood face to face with people who were brought up as europeans with democratic and full human rights who had become Muslims and said: “Of course now I am a Muslim… stoning and cutting off hands is part of sharia, so of course I believe it. Its for the best.”
I see such cases as representing severe loss of critical sense in individuals who have grown up in a religious void and now will sell out on the freedom rights that our ancestors gave their blood for…

You deserve credit for that. But the German propagandists also said the Jews were grasping, immoral, two-faced, etc. and all of that and more I have heard about Muslims on the Internet. (I know Muslims in real life too and they have not struck me that way, or at least not more than any other people.)

So you compare me to Nazis.
Yet I have not said Muslims are in themselves immoral… I am saying that they are in severe temptation to become immoral the moment they start following the example and precepts of their religion sincerely.
I might have always been at the wrong places at the wrong times. In todays news in Denmark a new study was published saying that as many as 20 percent of the muslim population thinks terrorism is okay sometimes and that if a terror attack hits Denmark then it is the country’s own fault. That would in another time and age have been called treason against country… but now its suddenly over us in such vast numbers that we are powerless to even say that.
In my school life and city I have seen much… very much… but you dont care about all these cases…
You call them anecdotes… which I must say is not very respectful of you. You would do well in accusing me of lying by backing up your words with references to something I said that was not true. I hope you leave comfortable America and come to Holland eg. or maybe you want to try to go to the Middle East and walk with your cross and your Bible there and openly tell the muslim population about the friend you have in Jesus.

I would also urge you to study antisemitism… because its not dead. Its kept alive by the devil himself who always works through ideologies that degrade the human person, its freedom and god-likeness. At any rate… you will probably say “all anecdotes” to things that you wish were not true. It becomes more and more clear to me that people believe what they want to believe.

 

[planten]

From GraceDK:
don’t follow you Planten.
I think your views on this are way too simplistic. If you want to critizise the Lord Jesus or His Mother for something they did and call their morality questionable, of course you are free to do so. In fact its your duty to point out cruelty etc and protest against it whereever you see it, most of all if its comitted by a religious leader, like Muhammad or Jesus.

Why can’t you follow? It is simple. You are using Hadith (man made material) to criticize Mohammad. If I may do the same using Da Vinci Code which was written on the basis of some reliable news, you will not be happy. Why is that? Leonardo was a great person. He had the material. But you will deny it. It is time you admitted the happy married life of Jesus. Otherwise do not use Hadith too because some of your old friends wrote the bad material in our books of Hadith.

Why? because these persons claimed to be prophets and even Jesus claimed more than that. So their life must be open for scrutiny. In Scripture we are even urged to “test the Spirits”.
Why, because if a religious leader falls into sin or lies then he takes many with him into damnation

.

We also noted in the bibleNT that a lady had the perfumed oil bought out of illegal money. Her profession was the worst. Out of her bad earnings, she had purchased some perfume. That perfume was dirty. Your lord had that ill gotten perfume put on his head or feet. Would you agree to that, till I bring you some more, critcism??

I have not found any fault in Jesus Christ while I find Muhammad unworthy of any religious title whatsoever after studying the Koran and Hadith.
We must scrutinize and test religions and ideologies, or we let ourselves and others be prey to stupidity and then the atheists indeed can say that religious people are unintelligent

.

You have not found any fault with your beloved Jesus and I also had no fault with my beloved Jesus according to the Quran. But according to your bible, there are many problems in the way that he abused and cursed the people around him. We see that he was abusing the people as children of serpents and evil generation. That was not a good (decent) way of talking to the people. What do you say??

I love Jesus and I love my family and friends.

** I also love Jesus and Muhammad. But I retrain myself from criticizing them. But you are adamant that you would like to criticize any prophet of God while you will also deny that one of them is a prophet of God. Why is that? It means that you have your own bad intentions and double standards**.

Does that mean I wont acknowlege a faults and failures of one of these, because I love them? Why would I not? They are humans. To lie or cover up the evil that exists is like excusing and accepting the ills… why not uproot the evil instead?

There is definite problems about the un-natural birth of Jesus as taught by the bibleNT. It is not a normal birth. We will discuss it too. But you may become upset and your friends will make hew and cry too.

I have a dear friends who are steeped in immoral living. If I was asked about it directy from a third party who already knew, I would say: “yes, what you say is regrettably true… this person has done/is doing this.”
Covering up does never helped anyone

.

That is good of you to allow us to criticize your dear ones as you normally do it yourself too. That is because you would like to criticize every one else too. So please be ready.

Now also, let me ask you… Muhammad came and challenged the religions that were dominating in his time and area, Judaism, Christianity (although a heretic sect) and pagan religion. His allah critizises and he critisises these religions … so ??? He did something wrong? or is it only a Muslim who is allowed to critizise and have religious freedom etc

…

Please look to Jesus too. Why he came. There was a religion already in the world called Judaism. Why did Jesus come and started his preachings and found many faults with the old religion and started abusing the followers of the old religion. There was perhaps no need for Jesus to come at all. If you say that people had forgotten the right path to God then I can also say the same thing thatyour elders had forgotten the real path to God. So Muhammad came to remind you all about your mistakes. Would you be happy??

Grace.

No Grace, Planten und Blumen..

 

[GraceDK]

**

Why can’t you follow? It is simple. You are using Hadith (man made material) to criticize Mohammad. If I may do the same using Da Vinci Code which was written on the basis of some reliable news, you will not be happy. Why is that? Leonardo was a great person. He had the material. But you will deny it. It is time you admitted the happy married life of Jesus. Otherwise do not use Hadith too because some of your old friends wrote the bad material in our books of Hadith

.

Okay so with you personally I wont argue out from Hadith, but the rest of the Muslim world believes in the divine authority of Hadith. You know that DaVinciCode is no religious authority whatsoever to any Christian on this planet, so why do you keep saying that nonsense. You altogether lack rhetorical skills… you were not raised in a demcratic culture, were you? See, your points lack consistensy and logic.
.

SIZE=“3”]We also noted in the bibleNT that a lady had the perfumed oil bought out of illegal money. Her profession was the worst. Out of her bad earnings, she had purchased some perfume. That perfume was dirty. Your lord had that ill gotten perfume put on his head or feet. Would you agree to that, till I bring you some more, critcism??**

Sources.
I have red the New Testament many times but never read what you here describe. “illegal money… earrings… dirty perfume”… You are ridiculous man. You are also a sinner…
You think the prostitute is not worthy to touch Jesus, but you somehow are? Wake up. this prostitute far exceedes you in virtue of humility.
The truth of christianity is this: Unless you confess and repent and ask Gods mercy admitting what a piece of scum you are, you are going to perish, because you cannot save your self and the number one sin in hell is pride.

You have not found any fault with your beloved Jesus and I also had no fault with my beloved Jesus according to the Quran. But according to your bible, there are many problems in the way that he abused and cursed the people around him. We see that he was abusing the people as children of serpents and evil generation. That was not a good (decent) way of talking to the people. What do you say??

Quote one time where Jesus cursed anyone. Quote one time where He abused anyone. You cannot. Because it does not exist, wheras I can point to you from the Koran how Muhammad cursed people. Jesus even blessed those who mocked Him while He was on the Cross. He said: “Forgive them Father for they do not know what they do.” So you too, Planten. You heap burning coal on your head because you do not know what you are talking about.

**** I also love Jesus and Muhammad. But I retrain myself from criticizing them. But you are adamant that you would like to criticize any prophet of God while you will also deny that one of them is a prophet of God. Why is that? It means that you have your own bad intentions and double standards**.**

Because one of them was both a prophet and the Son of God, while the other was nothing but an unrepentant sinner.
Again your argument lacks all rational qualities and I remember why I dont waste my time debating you. Indeed I encourage every Christian to not debate you, not because we cannot answer you, but because everytime you post you harm your self.

** There is definite problems about the un-natural birth of Jesus as taught by the bibleNT. It is not a normal birth. We will discuss it too. But you may become upset and your friends will make hew and cry too.**

You are right. Jesus birth was something out of the ordinary.

SIZE=“3”]That is good of you to allow us to criticize your dear ones as you normally do it yourself too. That is because you would like to criticize every one else too. So please be ready.

I am ready.
And by the way… I dont critizise everyone… I critizise those who commit evil and slander, so that they and others may turn from their sins.

Please look to Jesus too. Why he came. There was a religion already in the world called Judaism. Why did Jesus come and started his preachings and found many faults with the old religion and started abusing the followers of the old religion. There was perhaps no need for Jesus to come at all. If you say that people had forgotten the right path to God then I can also say the same thing thatyour elders had forgotten the real path to God. So Muhammad came to remind you all about your mistakes. Would you be happy??

You haven’t read the Old Testament. All of the Jews were expecting the Messiah when Jesus came. And He is predicted, both his life and death/atoning sacrifice and divinity, all through the books, from Genesis through Psalms and the Prophet books… even the prophet Daniel makes prophesied with clear in numbers when the Messiah of Israel would come and he did so perfectly. But I might as well speak Russian to you because you are have not read the Old Testament nor the New Testament.

If you had, you would see that the Koran is an island… its by it self and has no logic and no continuity to the rest of salvation history.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why can’t you follow? It is simple. You are using Hadith (man made material) to criticize Mohammad. If I may do the same using Da Vinci Code which was written on the basis of some reliable news, you will not be happy. Why is that? Leonardo was a great person. He had the material. But you will deny it. It is time you admitted the happy married life of Jesus. Otherwise do not use Hadith too because some of your old friends wrote the bad material in our books of Hadith.

You are correct. We will not be happy with the statement Leonardo da Vinci had whatever evidence, as you imply, that Jesus was married. BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE (except for Dan Brown’s book, which he acknowledges is fiction! We will debate with you, but we will not cut out your tongue to silence you. We will defend your right to speech. Notice you haven’t been banned for attacking our Catholic belief.

We also noted in the bibleNT that a lady had the perfumed oil bought out of illegal money. Her profession was the worst. Out of her bad earnings, she had purchased some perfume. That perfume was dirty. Your lord had that ill gotten perfume put on his head or feet. Would you agree to that, till I bring you some more, critcism??

Please cite your source, my Bible says it was Mary the sister of Lazarus.

John 12:*
1 Six days before Passover Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.
2
They gave a dinner for him there, and Martha served, while Lazarus was one of those reclining at table with him.
3
Mary took a liter of costly perfumed oil made from genuine aromatic nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and dried them with her hair; the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil.
4
Then Judas the Iscariot, one (of) his disciples, and the one who would betray him, said,
5
“Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days’ wages and given to the poor?”
6
He said this not because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief and held the money bag and used to steal the contributions.
7
So Jesus said, "Leave her alone. Let her keep this for the day of my *burial.

Where does it say “dirty?” Are you saying Mary, the sister of Lazarus, was a prostitute? Where does it say that in the Bible?
.

Planten:

You have not found any fault with your beloved Jesus and I also had no fault with my beloved Jesus according to the Quran. But according to your bible, there are many problems in the way that he abused and cursed the people around him. We see that he was abusing the people as children of serpents and evil generation. That was not a good (decent) way of talking to the people. What do you say??

I will not have you killed because of your misunderstanding of the verse.

Planten:

** I also love Jesus and Muhammad. But I retrain myself from criticizing them. But you are adamant that you would like to criticize any prophet of God while you will also deny that one of them is a prophet of God. Why is that? It means that you have your own bad intentions and double standards**.

Catholics believe Muhammed is a false prophet. Mormons, Muslims, JW’s, atheists do not believe in Jesus or Muhammed or God. We do not silence them. We debate and criticize them, but we do defend their right to free speech. It is Muslims who try to silence free speech.

Planten:

There is definite problems about the un-natural birth of Jesus as taught by the bibleNT. It is not a normal birth. We will discuss it too. But you may become upset and your friends will make hew and cry too.

Yes we will, but we won’t kill you for making these statements. In fact many here said they would pray for you…

Planten:

That is good of you to allow us to criticize your dear ones as you normally do it yourself too. That is because you would like to criticize every one else too. So please be ready.

Please look to Jesus too. Why he came. There was a religion already in the world called Judaism. Why did Jesus come and started his preachings and found many faults with the old religion and started abusing the followers of the old religion. There was perhaps no need for Jesus to come at all. If you say that people had forgotten the right path to God then I can also say the same thing thatyour elders had forgotten the real path to God. So Muhammad came to remind you all about your mistakes. Would you be happy??

Muhammed’s religion is much different than the Catholic Religion. But you are entitled to your opinion. Just back up your statement with credible facts if you want to debate here.
.

Planten:

No Grace, Planten und Blumen..

Every single Catholic post here was backed up with links and verifiable information. Nobody said, “I hate Muhammed, he is evil” and then used some unreliable stupid blog to back up their posts. You make up “facts” about the Catholic Church and Jesus that even your fellow Isamsists disagree with.

But hey, you haven’t been banned yet. Do you think we would have gotten this far on an Islamist Forum?

 

[R_not]

Yes you are. Being a racist and more than a bit of a moron porbably play a role in this.

islam is not a race. I don’t even know what race you are and quite frankly don’t care. It is not important. As for the moron - when it comes to name calling like that - it appears that names such as this only reflect you, sir.

 

[Reuben_J]

But hey, you haven’t been banned yet. Do you think we would have gotten this far on an Islamist Forum?

I agree he should deserve the ban.

But look at the upside of it. Don’t you think that because of him many of us are beginning to look into our Bible and sharpen whatever apologetic skill that we might have?

Sure, we would be banned for very much less in an Islamic or Fundamental Christian’s forum. I went to one (the latter) and was terribly shock being kicked out after my first post. I really didn’t know what hit me.

In any case, it goes to say that God does not need defending. He can take care of Himself unlike perhaps Islamic God and their Prophet who was long dead and gone. But it is two worlds, really.

 

[qui_est_ce]

But look at the upside of it. Don’t you think that because of him many of us are beginning to look into our Bible and sharpen whatever apologetic skill that we might have?

No question. I have learned so much since I joined CAF, not only about my own Holy Catholic Church, but other religions, atheism, etc. What I learned helped open my mind to how others could believe differently using the same words.

Like Matthew 16:18 or John 6:50-55, I understand how, even if incorrect, it is interpreted by non Catholics.

At first, I needed to be reprimanded by the mods a few times for uncharitable attitudes. I have since learned that all actions, words, posts, must be backed by love. This is hard to do, and I have often slipped. But apparently not bad enough to be reprimanded.
It’s easy to get sucked into the anger blast back mode.