Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[koranist]

Anyways we will look at what the Koran said regarding the punishment for murder:

5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,** or exile from the land**: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter

Here the Koran gives among the punishments:

or exile from the land:

This means the Koran does allow for abolishing the death penalty. Some have looked at this verse:

2178-179. O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.

They then say this implied that a murderer should get death as punishment. However the verse is imlying compensation since how else could you understand the verse? If a free man kills a slave then you don’t kill a slave for punishment. It seems the verse is talking about equity. Anyways it also says that remission can be made and monetary compensation could be taken. I think this verse is talking about man slaughter and not murder as the verse in chapter 5 is talking.

Others have pointed to the eye for an eye verse:

5.44-48. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

This is talking about what was revealed in the Torah, anyways it also says one can remit the retaliation and seems to talk about equity once again. However murder is different in the sense that society as a whole could be threatened and even if the family pardons the murderer society would not want this person roaming the streets where he can kill again. It also says the Gospel should be followed and yet we see no communal laws laid out in the Gospel. I think the verse is talking about religious laws should be taken from the Torah, Gospel and Koran. And as I said before, the Jews left the Torah for the Talmud, the Christians left the Gospel for the trinity and Muslims left the Koran for the Hadith. Thats is what the verse was trying to warn about and not murder.

I don’t think those verses are talking about murder, I think the verse I showed about the sons of Adam is talking about murder.

So there is no reason why from a Koranic point of view why death penalty can not be abolished as long as the murdere is exiled from the land. Prison as we know is a form of exile from community.

Koran is peace

 

[jakasaki]

5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land **is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, **or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter

Here the Koran gives among the punishments:

or exile from the land:

Note bold and font size. But you chose to speak about “exile from the land”… interesting!

 

[koranist]

But its still there and many nations have the death penalty, I am not against it or for it but I was just commenting on the hadith that a person here posted. This hadith was made to interpret that verse. However we can see the Koran was talking about murder. The pagans wanted him dead as this was the only way they can stop his preaching. They didn’t go to war with him for gold and silver and stealing a bunch of camels.

If you read the Koran you would know why they went to war with him.

9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth. As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ‘Our Lord is God.’ 22:39-40

However Sunnis believe verse 9-29 abrogated these verses.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness.** Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper**."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe … Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord’s will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine

Real Islam is only Koran. Koran is peace

 

[jakasaki]

~ snip ~

Real Islam is only Koran. Koran is peace

Well, you still didn’t answer my question from quote below.

Originally Posted by jakasaki
~ … snip … ~

**“Real islam is only koran” - is that why we see pictures and news of jihad men/women with face masks holding the koran in one hand and their weapon of choice on the other?

Indeed, real islam is only koran by these actions./**

 

[koranist]

Well, you still didn’t answer my question from quote below.

Because these guys believe Islam and the Koran are the same thing. Most Muslims would. Its all when its brought to their attention that they realize what the Koran says and what islam as is told to them is very different.

Let me put it this way. Muslims believe people should pray 5 times a day. is it in the Koran? Most Muslims would say yes, but its not. There is two and maybe 3 mentioned in the Koran. The Bible has 3 by David and Daniel.

Muslims eat with their right hands. Does the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe dogs should not be allowed in homes. Does the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe that there should be a friday sermon every weak. Does the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe that adulterers should be stoned to death at least in Islamic Shariah. Did the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe the Torah and Gosple has been corrupted. Did the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe Muhamamd came with a new Shariah that abrogated Jesus and the previous prophets. Did the Koran say so? No

Muslims believe…ok, I think you get my point.

So now why should we be surprised that Muslims believe in offensive jihad. Did the Koran say so? No

So if they hold up the Koran they see it as an expression of their Islamic faith, but when many don’t know is 90% of the so called Islam is not derived from the Koran. Its hard for a christian to relate to this because christians do not have an oral traditions that runs parallel and in many ways abrogated the scriptures. It takes a conscious re-reading of the Koran and its not as easy as you think. I certainly was shocked when I find out how much contradiction Islamic teachings is with the Koran. And I was a very frequent reader of the Koran. So imagine that.

Koran is peace

 

[qui_est_ce]

all when its brought to their attention that they realize what the Koran says and what islam as is told to them is very different.
So if they hold up the Koran they see it as an expression of their Islamic faith, but when many don’t know is 90% of the so called Islam is not derived from the Koran. Its hard for a christian to relate to this because christians do not have an oral traditions that runs parallel and in many ways abrogated the scriptures. It takes a conscious re-reading of the Koran and its not as easy as you think. I certainly was shocked when I find out how much contradiction Islamic teachings is with the Koran. And I was a very frequent reader of the Koran. So imagine that.

Your observations are very interesting. It sounds like many people have been mislead about what is in Koran. They memorize verses, but do not really understand what they’re reading, a type of brainwashing. What prevents Muslims from studying the Koran as Christians study the Bible?

What would you call the religion that rejects Islam, but follows the Koran only?

 

[jakasaki]

Koranist -

Thank you for your honesty.

I’ve had this discussion about the 5 prayer thing with other muslim members on CAF because the **koran only mentiones 3 prayers **and not 5.

All of the items you pointed out in your last post all come from sunna and hadiths that muslims follow, (yes, I know you know ) and **now I know **koranists do not.

This past hour, I’ve looked up what a “Koranist” really is and I’ve read that you are “moderate” muslims, believing ONLY in the koran and nothing else. As a matter of fact, I found an interesting article from Egypt that your fellow brothers “koranists” are being persecuted as well and being labeled “un-islamic”.

We have a mix bag of muslim members on CAF - some sunny, some ahmadi and some shia. Perhaps they’ll join in the converstation, but you should open a thread so we may discuss “koranist” only topics.

Thanks and God Bless,

 

[koranist]

Most Koranist probably would say I am Muslim but of course most Sunni would say no. Islam means submission and the Koran uses that term for any believe in God. It also uses the term Jew(Yehudi) for a believer in God and uses the term Nasara(Christians) for the disciples of Jesus. nasara means like champions of the Messiah. So it is an adjective. But as far as Islam of Sunni and Shia persuasion, no I don’t follow their teachings. They hijacked that phrase for themselves. So I guess we hijacked the Koranist label for ourselves. They hate that word, Koranist, since to them it makes them feel not the followers of the Koran.

However the Koran say:

“O you who believe! Be helpers of God – as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, **‘Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?’ Said the disciples, ‘We are God’s helpers!’ **Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed” (61:14).

2.62.** Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord**; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

5.69. Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

So technically faith is believing in God and the hereafter.

 

[jakasaki]

What do koranist’s believe as far a mohamad goes since this topic is about “mohamads actions”?

What is their interpretation of his person?

 

[Agabriel]

Without the hadith and sira, the Quran makes little to no sense. And no, it is not as peaceful as the koranist is making it out to be.

It defines kufir, it calls people pigs and apes so as to dehumanize them, it says that Muslims who don’t fight for Allah’s cause are hypocrits and therefore should meet the same fate as the unbelievers, it divides people up into believers and unbelievers (kufir), it calls for Muslims to fight for Allah and therefore calls that ‘good works’ and that they are the good Muslims, etc.

For the Muslims who don’t want to fight they won’t be hypocrits if they give of their wealth (Muslim Charities), and moral support. It says that booty (that stuff Muhammed and his band of followers stole from the people they attacked) was Muhammed and Allahs. It calls for fear and terror, and to fight. And it even says to the good Muslims to go and martry themselves and they will get their rewards.

And as usual what do we get? The abrogated, or weaker, surahs to prove a point. I wonder why so many who proclaim to be peaceful do nothing to stop the ones who they tell us are twisting the Quran? In a religion that says one thing and also the other, one has to look at the behaviors. And the Muslim countries have the worst human rights records, are in over 30 hot spots (battles against non-Muslims) around the world, give no freedoms/rights to non-Muslims who live in their lands, etc.

 

[koranist]

Without the hadith and sira, the Quran makes little to no sense. And no, it is not as peaceful as the koranist is making it out to be.

It defines kufir, it calls people pigs and apes so as to dehumanize them, it says that Muslims who don’t fight for Allah’s cause are hypocrits and therefore should meet the same fate as the unbelievers, it divides people up into believers and unbelievers (kufir), it calls for Muslims to fight for Allah and therefore calls that ‘good works’ and that they are the good Muslims, etc.

For the Muslims who don’t want to fight they won’t be hypocrits if they give of their wealth (Muslim Charities), and moral support. It says that booty (that stuff Muhammed and his band of followers stole from the people they attacked) was Muhammed and Allahs. It calls for fear and terror, and to fight. And it even says to the good Muslims to go and martry themselves and they will get their rewards.

And as usual what do we get? The abrogated, or weaker, surahs to prove a point. I wonder why so many who proclaim to be peaceful do nothing to stop the ones who they tell us are twisting the Quran? In a religion that says one thing and also the other, one has to look at the behaviors. And the Muslim countries have the worst human rights records, are in over 30 hot spots (battles against non-Muslims) around the world, give no freedoms/rights to non-Muslims who live in their lands, etc.

But in the last century Europe wasn’t that great when it came to human rights. I don’t think you will get anywhere by looking at what people do. I believe you should look at the scriptures.

You also said abrogated verses yet the people who claim the verses are abrogated are relying on sources OUTSIDE the Koran and most of these verses they see have abrogated the earlier verses are very vague. Its hard to see how Muhammad would not be so elaborate about abrogation. There is no verse in the Koran that even uses conquest. And there is no reason why Muhammad would not reveal these in the Koran but do so in his private speeches outside the Koran.

Plus the hypocrytes were not hypocrytes because they did not fight, they were hypocrytes because they claimed to be with Muhammad and they lived and eat with him and his followers but were siding with whoever has the edge. The Koran says these are the real enemies. Another words they were users.

Abrogation as a concept was formulized in the 4th century after Muhammad. You also said something about pigs, but this is talking about the Israelites who broke the Sabbath. It said that God turned them into pigs and monkeys when they broke the Sabbath even though they were told not to. There is also similar form of punishments in the Old Testament.

 

[jakasaki]

What do koranist’s believe as far a mohamad goes since this topic is about "mohamads actions"?

What is their interpretation of his person?

Bump ~

 

[koranist]

I am not sure what you mean Koranist and Muhammed’s person. Koranist do not glorify him like other Muslims do. I am not one of those Koranist who say that saying the Shahada(witness statement of faith) Muhammad is his messenger along with God is the one God means you are a polytheist or this type of language. I think some Koranist can be extreme and end up behavibg like other extremist. I believe he is a human being and is like any other prophet. I don’t believe the messenger is important, its the message I look at. Some people tend to have a need to have a personal connecetion with prophets. I maybe more scripture oriented. But I do believe that Muslims glorify him too much and emphasize Muhammad more than the message. The Koran says we should not differentiate between the messengers, since the message is one. I see the same in the OT where many prophets preached same thing but have different biographies and circumstances.

I think after 9-11 however, many people around the world have developed a harsher standard for Muhammad than the prophets of the OT. I think this is double standard by many Christians. There are more disturbing narrations in the OT than some hadiths. Over all however I tend to view any source about Muhammad outside the Koran with a grain of salt.

“The Messenger has believed in what was sent down upon him from his Lord and so have the believers. Each has believed in GOD and HIS Angels and HIS Scriptures and HIS Messengers, ‘We do not make distinction amongst HIS Messengers!’ And they said, 'We heard and we obeyed! Grant us YOUR forgiveness, OUR LORD, and unto YOU is the final destiny.”(2.285)

“Say, I am no different from the other messengers! And I am not aware of what will happen to me or to you. I follow only what is revealed to me …”(46.9)

“Say, 'It is not for me to change It of my own volition.** I only follow what is revealed to me! I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of an awesome Day**!”(10.15)

"Say: We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. " 2:136

"**The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers **- and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying. " 2:285

{4:152} “And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them– Allah will grant them their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”

But yet the Koran also say:

17.55. And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

2.253. Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

So this maybe to some another of the two faces of the Koran. I think its says wes hould not differentiate but God has given some what he has no given others. But it seems its talking about what he has given some prophets in this life that he did not give others prophets.

 

[Agabriel]

But in the last century Europe wasn’t that great when it came to human rights. I don’t think you will get anywhere by looking at what people do. I believe you should look at the scriptures.

You also said abrogated verses yet the people who claim the verses are abrogated are relying on sources OUTSIDE the Koran and most of these verses they see have abrogated the earlier verses are very vague. Its hard to see how Muhammad would not be so elaborate about abrogation. There is no verse in the Koran that even uses conquest. And there is no reason why Muhammad would not reveal these in the Koran but do so in his private speeches outside the Koran.

Plus the hypocrytes were not hypocrytes because they did not fight, they were hypocrytes because they claimed to be with Muhammad and they lived and eat with him and his followers but were siding with whoever has the edge. The Koran says these are the real enemies. Another words they were users.

Abrogation as a concept was formulized in the 4th century after Muhammad. You also said something about pigs, but this is talking about the Israelites who broke the Sabbath. It said that God turned them into pigs and monkeys when they broke the Sabbath even though they were told not to. There is also similar form of punishments in the Old Testament.

In the case of the Quran and what it says about deception, and how its adherents can find a passage for doing anything - good and bad, with the good being the weaker, abrogated, surahs - you have to look at the deeds of the Muslims.

-Muslims commit terror (Jihadists) in the name of their Allah.

-The majority of Muslims do nothing to stop their Jihadists.

-The majority of Muslims will tell us things to confuse Islam to people (which is a command in the Quran for them to do so: 6:25 6:110 17:45-76) and to deceive infidels.

-The Quran says that Muslims who do not wage violent Jihad against infidels, or those who do not support them with their wealth, are called hypocrites and therefore should be treated like the infidels because Allah hates them.

-Muslim charities support Jihadists and their families

-The Quran allows for men to repent of sexual crimes, but not for women (shows Allah, and Muhammed’s, hatred of women) surah 4:15-16.

-The Quran says it is ok to marry married women, if they are taken as slaves, surah 4:24. this shows a direct disrespect for others.

-The Quran recruits suicide bombers:
surah 8: ‘Allah has sent you from your homes to fight for the cause. Allah wished to confirm the truth by his words: wipe the Infidels out to the last. I shall fill the hearts of the infidels with terror! So smite them on their necks and every joint, and incapacitate them, for they are opposed to Allah and His Apostle. Whoever opposes Us should know that Allah is severe in retribution. The infidels will taste the torment of hell. So when you meet them in battle do not retreat, for all who turn away from fighting will bring the wrath of Allah on themselves and their abode will be hell. It was not you who killed them, but Allah who did so. You did not throw what you threw. Allah did to bring out the best in the faithful.’
‘So, fight them till all opposition ends and Islam is the only religion.’

More from surah 8: ‘O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight, if there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish 200; if there are a 100 then they will kill a 1,000 infidels, for they are people devoid of understanding.’

Infidels defined: surah5:72 ‘They are surely infidels who say Christ, the Messiah is God.’

Recruitment of suicide bombers surah 4: ‘Those who barter their life in this world for the next should fight in the way of Allah; whether he is killed or victorious, a glorious reward awaits.’ ‘Urge the believers to fight… to keep back the might of the infidels.’ ‘Seize them and kill them wherever they are.’ ‘Muslims who sit idle are not equal to those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives Allah has exalted those who fight for Islam.’

And as for abrogation - Muhammed was very clear about it.

In chapter 2:106, the Qur’an plainly indicates,
“Such of our revelation as we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.”

The only thing vague and confusing are the Muslims trying to deny this.

 

[jakasaki]

I wanted to bring this thread back up in the open because in my files I have on islam.

At the time of mohamad claiming himself as a “prophet” of allah, there was another man in the beginning of islam who also claimed he was a “prophet” of allah as well.

**Musailama **was his name.

What do muslims know about him and what mohamad’s actions against this man?

These are the notes I have on him:

**After the Holy Qur’an and sunnah, the consensus of the companions of the holy Prophet (PBUH) holds the third position.

All authentic historical traditions reveal that the companions of the prophet (PBUH) had unanimously waged a war on the claimants to the prophethood and their adherents after the demise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

In this connection the case of Musailama is particularly significant.

This man did not deny that Muhammad (PBUH) was the Prophet of God; he claimed that God had appointed him as a co- prophet with Muhammad to share his task. The letter which had addressed to the Holy Prophet just before the Mussailama’s death reads:

*“From Musailma the prophet of God to Muhammad the Prophet of God(PBUH). I wish to inform you that I have been appointed as your partner to share in the burden of prophethood.” The historian Tabari has recorded a tradition which says that the `call to prayers’(Adhan) which Musailama had devised for his followers included the words, “I testify that Muhammad is the Prophet of God.” *

Despite Musailama’s clear affirmation of the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH), he was declared an apostate and ostracised from the society of Islam.

Not only this but a war was waged on Musailama.

History also bears witness to the fact that the tribe of Hunaifa (Banu Hunaif) had accepted Musailama’s claim to prophethood in good faith. They had been genuinely led to believe that Muhammad (PBUH) had of his own accord declared Musailama as his partner in prophethood.

A man who had learnt Qur’an in the Holy City of Medina went to the tribe of Banu Hunaifa and falsely represented the verses of the Qur’an as having been revealed to Musailama. **

 

[planten]

I wanted to bring this thread back up in the open because in my files I have on islam.

At the time of mohamad claiming himself as a “prophet” of allah, there was another man in the beginning of islam who also claimed he was a “prophet” of allah as well.

**Musailama **was his name.

What do muslims know about him and what mohamad’s actions against this man?

These are the notes I have on him:

**After the Holy Qur’an and sunnah, the consensus of the companions of the holy Prophet (PBUH) holds the third position.

All authentic historical traditions reveal that the companions of the prophet (PBUH) had unanimously waged a war on the claimants to the prophethood and their adherents after the demise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). **

**jakasaki you have dug up this thread to tease me. I tell you that no one waged any war against any one who claimed to be a prophet. Wars were waged against those who tried to attack the Muslim state at madinah. **.

In this connection the case of Musailama is particularly significant.

These are all false reports.

 

[jakasaki]

jakasaki you have dug up this thread to tease me. I tell you that no one waged any war against any one who claimed to be a prophet. Wars were waged against those who tried to attack the Muslim state at madinah. .

**The letter you are suggesting that Musailamah wrote befor ehis death was written befor ethe death of the prophet. Musailamh had come to Madinah with a large army in the life of the prophet and wanted share in he prophethood.

The prophet picked up a straw from ground and told Musailamah “I would not give you even this straw. Prophethood is not any business commodity.”

The prophet did not harm Musalimah and he went away disappointed. After the prophet died, many people revolted and tried to attack madinah city. Musialmah was one of them. So there was a battle and Musialmah was killed.**

These are all false reports.

Oh for the love of God planten - what… is everything a conspiracy against you… geez, for crying out loud!!!

It’s a simple humble request about what do muslims know about this so called prophet.

If you believe it’s false, well then, you better contact the web master of the site and tell them to remove the “false reports”.

witness-pioneer.org/index.htm

In the mean time, I’ll wait for the other muslim members to reply if they wish.

 

[elwill]

I wanted to bring this thread back up in the open because in my files I have on islam.

At the time of mohamad claiming himself as a “prophet” of allah, there was another man in the beginning of islam who also claimed he was a “prophet” of allah as well.

**Musailama **was his name.

What do muslims know about him and what mohamad’s actions against this man?

Musailamah theLiar was from Al Yamaamah. he is impostor incited people against the believers in their tribes who responded to what Allah ordained and who believed in His Prophet. he also goaded them against the Prophet’s messengers whom he sent to their lands. Moreover, they even went so far as to ignite suspicion against prophethood itself and committed hideous mischief in the land, causing corruption and disbelief.

One day, the Prophet (PBUH) was surprised when a messenger arrived with a message from Musailamah in which he said, “From Musailamah Allah’s Prophet to Muhammad Allah’s Prophet. Peace be upon you. We are your partner in prophethood; consequently, we have half of the earth and the Quraish has the other half , but the Quraish want unjustly to have it all!”

The Prophet (PBUH) summoned one of his scribes and dictated this answer to Musailamah: “In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficient, the Most Merciful. From Muhammad the Prophet of Allah to Musailamah the Liar. Peace be upon those who followed the right path. Verily, the earth is Allah’s. He givesit as a heritage to whom He will of His slaves and the blessed end is for the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah.”

The Prophet’s words were direct and crystal clear. They exposed the liar of the Bani Haniifah who thought that prophethood was a kingdom, so he demanded his piece of the cake, namely, half the earth and its people. The messenger carried the Prophet’s answer to Musailamah, yet it only made him more mischievous and corrupt.

He went on spreading his falsehood and slander and went on abusing the believers and instigating people against them. The Prophet (PBUH) thought it best to give him one last chance, so he sent a message to convince him not to commit any more of his folly. He picked Habiib Ibn Zaid as his messenger.Habiib hastened enthusiastically with the glorious mission the Prophet (PBUH) had entrusted him with. He hoped that Musailamah’s heart would be guided to the right path and that he would rewarded endlessly in the Hereafter.

The traveler reached his destination. Musailamah the Liar read the Prophet’s message, but he was blinded by its light, which only made him more aberrant and arrogant.

Musailamah was really no more than a flagrant liar. He indeed behaved accordingly. He lacked the least manliness, sense of honor or decency of the Arabs which might have prevented him from shedding the blood of a messenger, which was highly respected and even held sacred by all Arabs.

Musailamah the Liar called upon people to witness one of his so-called memorable days. The messenger of the Prophet, Habiib Ibn Zaid, was brought in. It was clear from his wounds and bruises that he had been abused and tortured severely by those criminals. They thought that they could strip him of his valor so that he might appear in a state of complete humiliation and defeat before the crowd. They hoped that he would then give Musailamah the credibility he craved when he called upon him to witness to his fakeprophethood before the crowd. Thus, the notorious liar would be able to makea fake miracle that would cement his prestige among those whom he deluded.

Therefore, Musailamah asked Habiib, “Do you bear witness that Muhammadis, indeed, the Messenger of Allah?” Habiib answered boldly, “Yes, I do bear witness that Muhammad is, indeed, the Messenger of Allah.” Musailamah’s facewent white with humiliation and embarrassment yet he asked, “Do you bearwitness that I am the Messenger of Allah?” Habiib scornfully replied, “Nonsense!”

The impostor Musailamah’s humiliated face darkened with spiteful madness. His scheme had failed.

His torture of Habiib had been futile. He was slapped so fiercely before the crowd which he himself had gathered to witness his so-called miracle. This slap was so strong that it shattered his assumed dignity once and for all. He became as violent as a wounded bull as he summoned his executioner, who rushed and stabbed Habiib’s body with his sword. He slew him, cutting his body into small pieces, one by one Habiib made no sound beside chanting stoically, “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger.”

The Prophet received the sad news of Habiib’s martyrdom with patience,for Allah’s inspiration made him see the future fate of Musailamah.

After a short while, the Battle of Al-Yamaamah took place. Abu Bakr As-Siddiiq, the Prophet’s caliph, organized an army to march to Al-Yamama where Musailamah had already organized a huge army.

 

[planten]

Thanks elwill. Yet this fellow Agabriel would consider that foul man Musailamah as a hero. How bad of Agabriel to bring forward some false reports from false caches. That was done to disprove the honor of our beloved Prophet Muhammad. It is the height of hatred of Catholics for Islam.

 

[GraceDK]

But in the last century Europe wasn’t that great when it came to human rights…

This is what it comes down to. We as Christians distance ourselves and condemn the harshness of those who were before us. We have the freedom and duty to do this because they we not imitating Christ. Christ was pro-human rights… even more than that… He was LOVE INCARNATE.
Why don’t you follow the one who promotes human right? Europe is not Christ, and had no mandate from Christ when it acted in all kinds of immoral ways. The problem with todays Muslim terrorists and phedophiles etc, is that they actaully do have a divine madate from Muhammad’s behaviour as described in Sunna and Hadith.

youtube.com/watch?v=AwgZvylvJMw
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