Are Muslims saved?

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RonWI

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The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441)

John Paul II: We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: "We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection" *(Insegnamenti, *VIII/2, [1985], p. 497).

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM

Athanaisiam Creed: And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. … This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Koran:**[Shakir 9:30]**And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Can someone form a conclusion for me consistent with all of the above?
 
SHORT VERSION: “There should be no doubt that the Church recognizes that followers of Islam have elements of truth. But while it is possible for them—as for all men—to be saved if they live up to the light God has given them, it cannot be said that Islam is a path of salvation or that Muslims do not need to become Christians.”

LONG VERSION: catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp
 
According to us, they may be.

According to them, we are not.
 
The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) This is not an ex cathedra teaching. There is no explicit mention of this teaching as a “divinely revealed dogma”. Nothing is defined or decreed. The formula used in this Bull of Eugene IV is inconsistent with the formula for an ex cathedra proclamation of a dogma.
 
Let’s look at the Bull. That is still what we believe today. Those people will not be saved unless (you forgot to underline this part) “before death they are joined with [the Church].”

For those that are invincibly ignorant that the Catholic faith is true and the sacraments are necessary, they may be joined to the Church through what is called baptism of desire. All that are saved, are saved by Christ through the Church.

Here are some good reads on the subject:
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9111chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907chap.asp
 
These quotes are taken from Pope John Paul II’s book Crossing the Threshold of Hope. I have tried to pick the ones that clarify your question. Please do refer to this book.

***The tradition of very ancient cultures, antedating Christianity, remains very strong in the East. Even if faith in Christ reaches hearts and minds, the negative connotations associated with the image of life in Western society (the so-called Christian society) present a considerable obstacle to the acceptance of the Gospel.

The Council remarks that “The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. The Church has a high regard for their conduct and way of life, for those precepts and doctrines which, although differing on many points from that which the Church believes and propounds, often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. However, the Church proclaims, and is bound to proclaim that Christ is ‘the way and the truth and the life’ [Jn 14:6], in whom men must find the fullness of religious life and in whom God has reconciled everything to Himself” (Nostra Aetate 2).

Among the religions mentioned in the Council document Nostra Aetate, it is necessary to pay special attention to Buddhism, which from a certain point of view, like Christianity, is a religion of salvation. Nevertheless, it needs to be said right away that the doctrines of salvation in Buddhism and Christianity are opposed.

Nevertheless, both the Buddhist tradition and the methods deriving from it have an almost exclusively negative soteriology.

Carmelite mysticism begins at the point where the reflections of Buddha end.

To indulge in a negative attitude toward the world, in the conviction that it is only a source of suffering for man and that he therefore must break away from it, is negative not only because it is unilateral but also because it is fundamentally contrary to the development of both man himself and the world, which the Creator has given and entrusted to man as his task.

For this reason it is not inappropriate to caution those Christians who enthusiastically welcome certain ideas originating in the religious traditions of the Far East-for example, techniques and methods of meditation and ascetical practice. In some quarters these have become fashionable, and are accepted rather uncritically. First one should know one’s own spiritual heritage well and consider whether it is right to set it aside lightly.

As a result of their monotheism, believers in Allah are particularly close to us.

Whoever knows the Old and New Testaments, and then reads the Koran, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about Himself, first in the Old Testament through the Prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through His Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, has definitely been set aside.

Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Koran, but He is ultimately a God outside of the world, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with-us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the Cross and the Resurrection. Jesus is mentioned, but only as a prophet who prepares for the last prophet, Muhammad. There is also mention of Mary, His Virgin Mother, but the tragedy of redemption is completely absent. For this reason not only the theology but also the anthropology of Islam is very distant from Christianity.

Nevertheless, the religiosity of Muslims deserves respect. It is impossible not to admire, for example, their fidelity to prayer.

Also worthwhile were my meetings with the followers of Islam during my numerous apostolic trips to Africa and Asia, where sometimes, in a given country, the majority of the citizens were Muslims. Despite this, the Pope was welcomed with great hospitality and was listened to with similar graciousness.

The trip I made to Morocco at the invitation of King Hassan II can certainly be defined as a historic event. It was not simply a courtesy visit, but an event of a truly pastoral nature. The encounter with the young people at Casablanca Stadium (1985) was unforgettable. The openness of the young people to the Pope’s words was striking when he spoke of faith in the one God. It was certainly an unprecedented event.

Here, before all else, we need to explain the Christian doctrine of salvation and of the mediation of salvation, which always originates in God. “For there is one God. / There is also one mediator between God and the human race, / Christ Jesus, himself human” (1 Tm 2:5). “There is no salvation through any other name” (Acts 4:12).

It is therefore a revealed truth that there is salvation only and exclusively in Christ. ***
 
"We believe in the same God
Are you familiar with the three faiths of Abraham? If not, it would greatly enhance your knowledge of the Holy Land and why three distinct beliefs all lay claim to it. I would suggest that you study the connections between Judaism, Christianity and Islam if you are not aware of the common link to Abraham.
 
I am a protestant and here is my position.
Anyone who doesn’t accept Jesus is outside of Salvation. Not even the Muslims or Jews who reject Jesus are saved.
Muslims reject Jesus as God and don’t accept his sacrifice, as do some Jews. Therefore, they are outside the promise for Salvation. They don’t worship the same God, neither do the Orthodox Jews. Because they don’t recognize the trinity.
Muslims believe that we are condemned.
The Jews think that we are condemned.
Catholics say that everyone is condemned unless we turn to the Catholic Church.
I think that anyone who rejects Jesus is condemned.
 
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RonWI:
Is that suggestion for me, or for Pope Eugene IV?
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It is a suggestion for any serious scholar of theology. Having a common link is not the same as holding Truth in its entirety. Did you think they were the same?
 
The Jews think that we are condemned.
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Incorrect. Jews believe that Christianity is a uniquely Gentile approach to the true God. They believe that we are true believers, but that our beliefs are not fit for Jews.
 
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Eden:
It is a suggestion for any serious scholar of theology. Having a common link is not the same as holding Truth in its entirety. Did you think they were the same?
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The question of the thread is neither one of “common link” or of “holding Truth in its entirety”. It is one of salvation. I read Pope Eugene IV’s statement as stating in no uncertain terms: Muslims are not saved. They are condmened to hell. My question is pretty straight forward: is this still the Church’s holding?
 
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RonWI:
The question of the thread is neither one of “common link” or of “holding Truth in its entirety”. It is one of salvation. I read Pope Eugene IV’s statement as stating in no uncertain terms: Muslims are not saved. They are condmened to hell. My question is pretty straight forward: is this still the Church’s holding?
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Yes, read my post #5.
 
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RonWI:
The integrity is refreshing.
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No one goes to Hell by accident. The issue of invincible ignorance is the key here. That article from “This Rock” gives a decent explanantion.

Likewise, whether they follow the law of God written on all our hearts is also an issue. I think there is a passage in Romans dealing with it (althout the exact verse and everything escapes me).

It still follows that all who end up being saved, even if they profess another religion for whatever reason, are saved by Christ through the Church. It works the other way too. Professed Catholics who end up in Hell have separated themselves from the Church and Christ, through unrepented mortal sin for example.
 
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RonWI:
The question of the thread is neither one of “common link” or of “holding Truth in its entirety”. It is one of salvation. I read Pope Eugene IV’s statement as stating in no uncertain terms: Muslims are not saved. They are condmened to hell. My question is pretty straight forward: is this still the Church’s holding?
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Yes it still holds. The Church has never contradicted itself on this issue. You presented quotes as though you believed Pope John Paul II contradicted Church teaching when he said “We are praying to the same God.” I was speaking to the difference between recognizing a common link and believing that one speaks truth in its entirety. Why then did you think that the Church had changed its position on Muslims if it was not the quote from PJPII?
 
Muslims believe in a false god…lets examine what they believe…they are monotheists…just like we are…but, the biggest hangup between christians and muslims is the doctrine of the trinity (not to mention their own bible)…well…we believe 3 in 1…they believe in 1 as in no jesus, no holy spirit…but "god’…well…they deny that jesus is god…and anyone that denies jesus…denies the father…we serve two different gods…now…as in with all pagan religions…satan has created counterfit religions to deceive the people…satan will not stand for the people knowing the truth…that is the only way he can control them is if he can keep them in the darkness…now muslims believe that jesus was a prophet…but, makes no sense to me…if they believe that he was a prophet but jesus said he was god…in my opinion wouldn’t that be blasphemy in the muslim religion…see…we serve a different god…they do not believe in the same god that the christians do…they have no hope of salvation in their religion…they do not have the all sufficient sacrifice that washes and cleanses them from all unrighteousness and puts them in rightstanding with the almight creator and father of those that accept christ…instead their religion puts them in bondage and darkness…only thing we can do for them is to pray for them…and minister love and kindness to those that are lost…preaching the gospel of truth and freedom…no more bondage…no more chains…but perfect freedom in the tendor mercy and grace that is given to all those that accept christ as their lord and savior…

Ceasar
 
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Eden:
Yes it still holds. The Church has never contradicted itself on this issue. You presented quotes as though you believed Pope John Paul II contradicted Church teaching when he said “We are praying to the same God.” I was speaking to the difference between recognizing a common link and believing that one speaks truth in its entirety. Why then did you think that the Church had changed its position on Muslims if it was not the quote from PJPII?
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It is not just the quote of JPII. It is that nearly every Catholic whom I ask will respond “well, if it is not their fault for not believing, then they are still saved” or “how on earth do you expect native Americans 1000 years ago to know Jesus?”

The Athanasian Creed does not conclude with an asterisk. It does not say “You must believe this, unless you were a really good person, in which case you do not have to”. All I am looking for is a Catholic willing to say “Yes, the Athanasian Creed is clear. It says what it means and it means what it says”; not a bunch of equivocation about “do you really think God would be that unfair?”
 
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Ghosty:
Incorrect. Jews believe that Christianity is a uniquely Gentile approach to the true God. They believe that we are true believers, but that our beliefs are not fit for Jews.
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Where do you get you information? Jews don’t recognize Christianity. We are blasphemers to them. We claim that there is one God in three persons. They claim there is one God. It isn’t the same thing. They worship the basic idea of the same God but we have conflicting views. The Jews believe that they are the choosen people, and as such they are the ones who are saved. Gentiles are out of the mix. They also see Jesus as a man and criminal.
 
Who are any of us to decide who is and is not “saved”? The ultimate judgement belongs to God. He is the one looking at hearts. We should never presume to know the mind of God as His thoughts are not ours. All that we can know is that the path is narrow - not who is on that path.
Should we not attend to our own salvation with an eye to loving our brothers (and all that love entails), no matter who they may be?
Just my :twocents: .
 
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