Are Muslims Worshipping the same God as the Jews & Christians?

[Byzantine_Wolf]

'This is not what Islam believes… This is what Allah says in the Qur’an about trinity and Jesus Peace be upon him… there are also other verses about Christianity… I welcome you to read it f you want…

As I said before, I have, and I have studied how the Quran discusses Christianity. Whoever wrote the Quran does not understand Christianity. This is why when Muslims come on to this forum and start threads asking why Christians worship three gods or other basic questions they get laughed at - because they are asking from a warped perspective of what the Trinity, Christ’s divinity, and Christianity entire is.

Of course Muslims arew worshipping the same God. By definition, monetheistic religion believe in ONE GOD, so how could it be any other. The Holy Koran described Jesus as the Messiah (3:40-47). It refers to the Torah and the Gospel as true teachings.

When Muslims say they believe in Jesus, they mean it just as much as if Christians and Muslims say, “We believe in Isaiah.” It does not bear the same context as when Christians say they believe in Jesus.

As for topics in the Quran…the Quran also denies the Trinity (S. 4:171), says that the Christians will be condemned if they believe in the Trinity (S. 5:73), says Christ was nothing more than a prophet (S. 5:75), says that His knowledge of the Law and prophets was only because God gave it to Him (S. 3:48), and even says that Christ wasn’t crucified (S. 4:157-158). Whoever this spirit was speaking to Mohammad and giving Him the Quran, it was not the Spirit of God that Christians know.

As for belief in one God…who is the Christian God? The One Being of God revealed through Three Divine Persons - He is a Trinitarian God. Muslims believe in one Being and one Person because they deny the Holy Spirit’s divinity (which ecumenical councils have condemned) as well as Christ’s divinity (which orthodox Christian faiths condemn).

 

[schaick]

And the Quran is supposed to be the word of allah so in fact then allah does not understand Christianity!!

I have talked with a** few **Jewish people and they can actually understand that our concept of who GOD is is different, who we call the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the One True GOD.

I have talked with many Muslims and they can not. They just keep repeating over and over that we worship 3 gods, we are pagans. Their Quran tells them that and if they go against the Quran-trouble.

Jews understand that we believe that GOD sent Jesus to die for our sins on the cross.

Muslims say the crucifixion didn’t happen.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

Trinity is blasphemy… because its attributing that God had a son…

“And your God is One God: there is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.” (Holy Qur’an 2:163)

“Allah! There is no god but He, the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).” ( Holy Qur’an 2:55)

Trinity is a pagan concept… further evidence: youtube.com/watch?v=71cVPak5LKI

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

And the Quran is supposed to be the word of allah so in fact then allah does not understand Christianity!!

Uh huh, and U claim this with what evidence? What you saying is that your understanding is better than the undestanding of God almighty?
And God is all knowing and he has clearly stated that Christianity is the work of man.You very well know the role that the Church plays in changing your religion to suit their life.I rest my case!

I have talked with a** few **Jewish people and they can actually understand that our concept of who GOD is is different, who we call the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the One True GOD.

No comment as I am not Jewish

I have talked with many Muslims and they can not. They just keep repeating over and over that we worship 3 gods, we are pagans. Their Quran tells them that and if they go against the Quran-trouble.

Yes, because 3 is not equal to 1…For more info, see the above Youtube video

Jews understand that we believe that GOD sent Jesus to die for our sins on the cross.

ehem (clears his throat)… What are you trying to say?

Muslims say the crucifixion didn’t happen.

Yes, Crucufixion didnt happen and is clearly stated in the Qur’an that it didnt happen

“That they said (in boast), “We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah”; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.” (Holy Qur’an 4:157)

Peace

 

[crazzeto]

This is more than your opinion, this basically comes straight out of Vatican II which is an Ecumenical Council thus no Catholic can deny this. In fact, if one stops and thinks about it, there’s really no good way to suggest Muslims don’t woship the same God we do, with out also suggesting that the Jews don’t worship the same God we do which would be highly problematic for us.

 

[schaick]

Since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of one substance the math is:

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

not

1 + 1 + 1 = 3

Mohammad thought that Christians worshipped Mary with the Father and Son:

5.116
YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?
SHAKIR: And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to; if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
Literal:And when God said: “You Jesus Mary’s son, did you say to the people ‘Take me and my mother two gods from other than God?’ He said: ‘Your praise/glory, is not to be for me that I say what is not for me with right/truth, if I was said it, so You had known it, You know what in my self, and I do not know what in Your self, that You, You all knower the unseens/hidden.’”

**There was actually a grooup that did worship Mary the Collyridians, located in Arabia. **

Actually the word Trinity is a stretch here by Yusufali
4.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” - Cease! better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speakagainst Allah, but the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

When you look up the literal translations of all the verses it is very telling.

Literal:You The Book’s people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on God except the truth , but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary’s son God’s messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: “Three.” Stop best for you, but God one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what in the skies/space and whatin the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God guardian/protector .

See two say only a messanger and the literal says GOD’s messenger.

Which is true Jesus was a messenger with the best message ever!!

 

[schaick]

This is more than your opinion, this basically comes straight out of Vatican II which is an Ecumenical Council thus no Catholic can deny this. In fact, if one stops and thinks about it, there’s really no good way to suggest Muslims don’t woship the same God we do, with out also suggesting that the Jews don’t worship the same God we do which would be highly problematic for us.

Does anyone know if the Pope or anyone from the Ecumenical Council has read the Quran?

Have they read hadith?

 

[crazzeto]

Does anyone know if the Pope or anyone from the Ecumenical Council has read the Quran?

Have they read hadith?

As Ecumenical Council’s are infallible, I would suggest they have greater insight into the matter than any of us. In fact the documents say that the Muslims Claim (though nothing about actually posessing) the same faith as Abraham. You can not try and exclude the Muslims without also excluding the Jews at the exact same time.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

Prove that Muhammad (PBUH) lied? these are just false accusations… He is not a liar but the seal of the Prophets sent down by Allah… Who did he borrow scriptures from and why would he need to? I havent seen a single proof to your statements… much of what you say is personal opinion which is not valid in an intelligent conversation… so show us the proof of your statements just like I have in most of my posts…

 

[jakasaki]

Prove that Muhammad (PBUH) lied? these are just false accusations… He is not a liar but the seal of the Prophets sent down by Allah… Who did he borrow scriptures from and why would he need to? I havent seen a single proof to your statements… much of what you say is personal opinion which is not valid in an intelligent conversation… so show us the proof of your statements just like I have in most of my posts…

We have done that so many times before here on CAF on preivous threads.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

Since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of one substance the math is:

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

not

1 + 1 + 1 = 3

Mohammad thought that Christians worshipped Mary with the Father and Son:

5.116
YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?
SHAKIR: And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to; if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
Literal:And when God said: “You Jesus Mary’s son, did you say to the people ‘Take me and my mother two gods from other than God?’ He said: ‘Your praise/glory, is not to be for me that I say what is not for me with right/truth, if I was said it, so You had known it, You know what in my self, and I do not know what in Your self, that You, You all knower the unseens/hidden.’”

**There was actually a grooup that did worship Mary the Collyridians, located in Arabia. **

Actually the word Trinity is a stretch here by Yusufali
4.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” - Cease! better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speakagainst Allah, but the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

When you look up the literal translations of all the verses it is very telling.

Literal:You The Book’s people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on God except the truth , but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary’s son God’s messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: “Three.” Stop best for you, but God one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what in the skies/space and whatin the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God guardian/protector .

See two say only a messanger and the literal says GOD’s messenger.

Which is true Jesus was a messenger with the best message ever!!

Muhammad (PBUH) did not write the Qur’an… God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad (PBUH)…

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.” (Holy Qur’an 2:23)

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

We have done that so many times before here on CAF on preivous threads.

hmmm…Is that the best U can do? Another lie to cover up the series of false accusations?

 

[crazzeto]

Muhammad (PBUH) did not write the Qur’an… God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad (PBUH)…

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.” (Holy Qur’an 2:23)

Not only did he not write it, but he didn’t even collate it into a single book. It was written onto various different surfaces ranging from palm leaves (some of which dissapeared prior to collation as attested to by his own youngest wife who said their were missing verses) to the shoulder bone of a half eaten camal. These individual portions of the Qur’an were then thrown into a chest. Later when the problem of very many different versions of the book floating around (in fact it was so bad that each city had it’s own version) causing fights, the 3rd Kalief (who incidently wasn’t a profit or inspired in any way) Collated the bible, putting verses in order of depth in the chest.

 

[jakasaki]

hmmm…Is that the best U can do? Another lie to cover up the series of false accusations?

What is it with you?

Instead of accusing us of “another lie”, why don’t you spend a week on here. don’t post on new threads but within this subforum REVIEW ALL threads pertaining to islamic discussions we have had for the past year.

If not 1 year, try only the last 6 months.

You’ll find your answers within.

All we do is rehash the same ol’ when a new muslim member comes on board.

 

[jakasaki]

Muhammad (PBUH) did not write the Qur’an… God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad (PBUH)…

You are correct by stating the mohamad DID NOT write the koran.

But you are INCORRET with the “God revealed the koran to mohamad”.

God never spoke to mohamad.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

Not only did he not write it, but he didn’t even collate it into a single book. It was written onto various different surfaces ranging from palm leaves (some of which dissapeared prior to collation as attested to by his own youngest wife who said their were missing verses) to the shoulder bone of a half eaten camal. These individual portions of the Qur’an were then thrown into a chest. Later when the problem of very many different versions of the book floating around (in fact it was so bad that each city had it’s own version) causing fights, the 3rd Kalief (who incidently wasn’t a profit or inspired in any way) Collated the bible, putting verses in order of depth in the chest.

The Qur’an was memorized and even today, we have people who know the entire Qur’an by heart…At the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), he would receive a revelation, then he memorized it and taught it to the Sahabas (his companions)… Show me the evidence where Aisha (peace be upon her) made such a statement?

So even if alll the copies of the Qur’an in the world today is burnt, the Qur’an is still alive in this world… because of memorization… an Average muslim child of less than 6 years old knows at least 10-15 chapters of the Qur’an by heart… So your accusation is invalid.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

What is it with you?

Instead of accusing us of “another lie”, why don’t you spend a week on here. don’t post on new threads but within this subforum REVIEW ALL threads pertaining to islamic discussions we have had for the past year.

If not 1 year, try only the last 6 months.

You’ll find your answers within.

All we do is rehash the same ol’ when a new muslim member comes on board.

For the three days I have been on here, I havent come across as many memebers who make false statements and have no evidence to prove it… sadly, much of the Christians I have met have personal opinions and a very few actually know their own scriptures… So it isnt me…

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

You are correct by stating the mohamad DID NOT write the koran.

 

[A_Lion_Of_Islam]

Evidence for your claim please… show me the evidence

 

[jakasaki]

A_Lion_Of_Islam:

Yep, again PERSONAL OPINION… doesnt count my friend… where is your evidence to your accusation?

How old are you?

And were you always a muslim, -born into a muslim family-?