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marywarfield
Guest
I don’t know the verse. However the very first chapter
of Genesis states clearly that man is created in
God’s image. I don’t know about you but when I
think of God the face of a turtle or scorpion or horse
just doesn’t come to mind.
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openmind77
Guest
You are confusing reincarnation with transmigration. In reincarnation you always return as a human being. Hindus generally do not believe in transmigration, that is mainly a Buddhist belief.
In any case, when I say reincarnation I meant returning as a human being.
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openmind77
Guest
It is unfortunate that Catholics are so fanatical about Church teachings. These teachings are created by humans and it is absurd to expect them to be error free. In fact some of the teachings on the afterlife are so ridiculous that I am surprised people are still willing to believe them in this day and age (eternal damnation for contraceptive use, for instance).
This fanaticism about current dogma will create a major schism in the Church when the Christ returns and tries to correct some of it (but I believe the final trial of the Church has already been predicted in prophesy).
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marywarfield
Guest
Yes you read it. Did you miss the part of the
prophecy in which the Church is victorious?
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openmind77
Guest
Yes I have read that part. I do expect the Church to come out of it just fine, but by that time many of the fanatics will have left in disgust. Those that remain will be the true believers in Christ and not the ones invested in the dogma over the Christ’s true teachings,Yes you read it. Did you miss the part of the
prophecy in which the Church is victorious?
This separation between the two (goats and sheep) is already taking place even as we speak - people just don’t realize it.
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jochoa
Guest
What is your understanding of reincarnation?
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jochoa
Guest
Would you please share your understanding of reincarnation and God?
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openmind77
Guest
Explaining who is God (or Gods) is complicated and probably does not quite fit into this topic. The Catholic understanding of God is good enough for now, but it is not complete. However, no understanding of God will ever be complete. The roles of each member of the Trinity need some clarification, but the Christ will provide that when He Returns.
The theory of reincarnation is pretty simple - after death you spend some time in hell (or at least a pretty bad place) to purify yourself of your sins. The time and conditions in this place are directly proportional to your ‘sinfulness’. Then you may spend sometime in heaven (or at least a restful place) until you are ready to be born again as a human being - the circumstances of your birth depend on all your actions in all your previous lives.
If you are perfect at the time of your death (some call it enlightened) then you no longer need to reincarnate,
This process ensures perfect and total justice. Nobody who commits a mortal sin and then gets hit by a bus is condemned to eternal hell. Nor is any unbaptized dead baby deprived of a chance to reach its full potential.
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SpeakKindly
Guest
I think you have a partially skewed view of how Catholics understand mortal sin, along with a few other things that I won’t address.
From what I understand, it’s not that a particular sin will send you to hell. Contraception is not a sin that would send you there in itself. What sends people to hell is a willful act that a person knowingly does which is so grave, so seriously objectively wrong, that it separates that person from God by killing their own soul’s spiritual life. The particular sin doesn’t really matter, outside of it being done willfully, knowingly, and that it’s a seriously bad (grave) act.
As far as reincarnation goes, it sounds like a good deal, except that my punishment would only be temporary, so my separation from God means nothing. Since I can’t even remember that separation, then my time being punished seems a bit useless. Unless I’ve got the concept of reincarnation mixed up, in that case I admit that I’m ignorant.
My point is though that while an eternal punishment sounds harsh, and reincarnation fits what we believe an all loving being “would do” at first glance, it’s really not so. Hell is a response to a desire to be separated from God, and God won’t force us to get it right eventually. We’re shown love by God recognizing our free will to reject Him, and since He doesn’t need us, He acts accordingly out of that love.
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steve_b
Guest
Just a few thoughts
Re: Baptism outside the Catholic Church, it doesn’t automatically make one Catholic or a member of the Catholic Church.
One has to ask, If Protestants are absolutely Equal with us in the CC
then
- Protestants could enter any CC and receive the sacraments. Can they do that? No
- Catholics could become Protestants with no consequence. Can they do that? No
- if Protestants are equal to us then why are they part of The Great Heresies
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openmind77
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Sorry my mistake. I thought one unrepented mortal sin (with full knowledge etc etc) could send you to eternal hell (although not necessarily - only God really knows etc etc). Apparently I was mistaken - now I understand from you that unrepentantly using contraceptives, by itself alone will never send you to eternal hel
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Holly3278
Guest
The true Jesus Christ would never come back and tell us something that His Church has taught is false. If anyone ever came claiming to be Christ and told us that the Catholic Church got something wrong on faith and morals then this person would be an imposter and a fake. This person could possibly even be the antichrist, the man of sin. He would try to delude many into believing some sort of false religion.
Also, the Catholic Church teaches that when Jesus Christ returns, that is when the Final Judgment will take place. He is not going to return and teach us a whole lot more and then leave or then judge us.
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jochoa
Guest
I would definitely be glad to hear your understanding of God, even without any explanation because I know that explaining my understanding of God can quickly get complicated. For example: I know/understand God is…
- the Creator of Everything.
- the Holy Trinity
- Love
- All-Powerful
- the person who is always loving
- Jesus
- the Father
- the Son
- the Holy Spirit
- the Eucharist
- the One True God
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Abu
Guest
This displays woeful ignorance of the Christ and His Church. “These teachings”, as dogma and doctrine, are guaranteed to be free from error by Christ Himself, the Son of God, as post #18 quotes.
Looks like a false god proclaiming his own wishful feelings.
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Abu
Guest
Daydreaming. This thread is not about Christ’s Second Coming but about His teaching.
The reality here is concerning the truths of the Catholic Church which Christ established on St Peter as His Supreme Vicar and His Apostles, sending the Holy Spirit as He promised: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:15-18) “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in My name, He will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15)
The Church is "the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim 3:16).
Thus, some people really make their own trouble, and seem to deserve Christ’s admonition to His Apostles. Until and unless dissenters listen to Christ through His Church they may be in the same boat as His Apostles in earlier days – to His own Apostles, “whom He loved to the end” Jesus exclaimed: “Have you no sense, no wits, are your hearts dulled, can’t you see, your ears hear, don’t you remember?” (Mk 8:17-18). Further, having commissioned Peter as His first Vicar, on whom He founded His Church, Jesus instructed the eleven and proclaimed: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations….teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you…” (Mt 28:18-20).
Thus, from the first, the faithful “remained faithful to the teaching of the Apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread, and to the prayers.” (Acts 2:42).
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." (2 Thess 2:15).
“Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, with faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us.” (2 Tim 1:13-14). Again St Paul writes: “And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.” (2 Tim 2:2).
In Colossians 2: 4-23, St Paul calls on his flock to follow Christ “as you were taught” and warns against merely “human precepts and teachings.”
1 Cor 1:10: I urge you brothers, in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.
We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jn 4:6).
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SpeakKindly
Guest
Withholding repentance of a mortal sin willfully and knowingly is something that will keep you out of the state of Grace required for going to Heaven if you are moved to do so but refuse. As far as I know.
However, I’m fairly sure that’s not how you stated the use of contraceptives. My understanding is that you blamed contraceptive use itself as what would send someone to Hell. The use of contraceptives itself maybe be used for a valid reason in rare cases, but it is the destructive and altering of God’s plan for sex and life that makes most uses of contraceptives sinful in such a way that we are separated from God.
Our separation from God, by our willful and knowledgeable acceptance to do something that kills us spiritually that sends us there. So, in another way, we could say that all who go to Hell have sent themselves there because they rejected God in their life at some point in time and never had that taken care of through reconciliation.
Sin is immoral, but our separation between us and God is the result of an immoral act, which Catholics call a mortal sin. It all might sound the same, but the way I understand it is that we cannot do enough good to deserve to go to Heaven, it is God reuniting us with Himself and putting us in a state of Grace.
Likewise, according to the Catholic perspective there is no scale that balances our good and bad deeds like in Islam. So I dislike saying “so and so sin sends you to Hell”, because it’s correct to say that, but it’s important to understand why. That is why Church teaching is so important because there needs to be a teaching source to understand why some act is right or wrong, not just that it is because someone told you that it was wrong. The Church provides teaching to help us form a good conscience.
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SecretCatholic
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That’s like saying its unfortunate that Buddhists are so fanatical about The Four Noble Truths. The church teachings are fundamental to what Catholicism is. It starts with Jesus Christ and builds on that based upon the authority Jesus gives to Peter and the Church. That said, a lot of things said by church members, even the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) can certainly be questioned and challenged. A lot of church teachings can be reinterpreted with new theological and scientific insights.
But that said infallibly cannot be changed and forms the foundation of the church’s teachings. Most of the time a fundamental teaching is around a long time before it is declared an infallible truth, and that’s after careful consideration and consultation, so its not like these things are declared with ease or regularity.
If Jesus did not really give Peter and the church the authority that is proclaimed by the Church as hers, then it is simply not his church and we must even question whether Jesus’ teachings are even accurate and whether he is truly God in the first place. I would have no more trust in a returned Jesus who claimed that the church had it all wrong than in some random contemporary prophet.
On the other hand, the legitimate Jesus could and would certainly expand upon Church teachings both in interpretation and in new teachings. For example, maybe he would further explain to us how the Eucharist is his body and blood, which might or might not contradict what Catholic theologians have said. But he wouldn’t say that it was just a symbol, because that would directly contradict Church teaching.
I believe that too, but for slightly different reasons. I would change your statement to “Those that remain will be the true believers in Christ and not the ones invested in the culture and rituals over the Christ’s true teachings”
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steve_b
Guest
asked another way,
*]Can anyone get to heaven without Jesus? No John 14:6
*]does Jesus accept division in what He establishes? No John 17:20-23
*]Will those who divide /dissent from His Church go to heaven? No Romans 16:17-20 ,Galatians 5:19-21
*]since nobody can claim the HS inspired THEM to start their own organization(s) (as in all of Protestantism regardless of stripe for example) and call themselves a “church”, becuase the HS only passes on to us what comes from Jesus John 16:12-15 and Jesus doesn’t divide what He establishes
THEN, one has to find out, where is His Church, and how do we know it is His Church?
#34
For me it’s simple, given the benefits of being in His Church vs the terrible consequences for being divided from and being outside His Church, It’s a no brainer.
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