Are Protestants being hypocrites?

[mlchance]

No, the word hypocrit is not inherently an insult.

Really? That must be news to a whole lot of people, starting with Jesus Christ Himself. But whatever.

I have not made any judgements.

Sure you have. You’ve judged Protestants as hypocrites.

This whole thread is just silly, nothing more than a Catholic version of the drive-by anti-Catholic threads that start out with, “Why do Catholics worship Mary?”



– Mark L. Chance.

 

[jmcrae]

Probably because in most Protestant denominations, the role of preacher is not vocational - rather, it is a job function. Anyone who is capable of doing the job can do the job.

To expand further - They don’t see it as a vocation in which they are meant to “image” Christ’s humanity to the congregation - rather, they see it as a “job” with certain “functions” of preaching, baptizing, presiding over weddings, leading in prayer, etc. So, anyone who can fulfill these functions is “qualified” for the “job.” Including women.

A lot of Catholics make the same mistake - I actually saw someone be “converted” to the idea that women could be priests when he saw a woman lead a prayer service - she did a very effective job with leading the prayer service, and because of that, he decided that it should be okay for women to become priests. I just thought, “Wow, you didn’t already know that women can pray? That’s really sad!”

Kind of scary, when you think of how easily the “job function” mentality slips in without our even realizing it. Being “capable” or even “better at” the various functions of the priesthood - preaching, prayer, counsel, etc. - doesn’t make women “qualified” to become priests - we lack an essential element, which is Christ’s adamic male form.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Again, I’m really not talking about churches. I’m talking about people. I’ve been encountering many individual people who accept women pastors, people from all kinds of denominations, not just the mainline ones.

Hi,
Im sorry, Im being dense. I cant speak for anyone but myself. I am a woman and I am perfectly happy with just men being preachers. I actually dont know too many people that do believe in women preachers.

I bet you this all started with the feminist movement.

 

[Verita]

I bet you this all started with the feminist movement.

Very likely.

jmcrae, you are probably close to the truth. But I still wonder how they can justify it with their “It’s not in the Bible therefore it can’t be true” mentality.

 

[Verita]

Really? That must be news to a whole lot of people, starting with Jesus Christ Himself. But whatever.

Sure you have. You’ve judged Protestants as hypocrites.

This whole thread is just silly, nothing more than a Catholic version of the drive-by anti-Catholic threads that start out with, “Why do Catholics worship Mary?”



– Mark L. Chance.

Mark, I apologize that this thread does note please you. As far as I knew I did not think there was any problem with starting a discussion of this topic. I feel that you are attacking me for no reason and insulting me as well. I am trying not to be judgemental, whether you believe it or not, but you are openly calling me “foolish” and “silly”. Of the two of us, it seems to me you are being the more judgemental.

However, if the topic is unwelcome let the thread be closed for all I care.

 

[sandusky]

Verita:

Protestants are famous for disagreeing with Catholic teaching because “It’s not in the Bible.” Anything that isn’t mentioned in the Bible is rejected. Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, prayer to Saints… etc. The Catholic Church its self is rejected because “It’s not in the Bible.”

But lately it has come to my attention that alot of Protestants accept women as Priests/Pastors. My own former Protestant Church once had a woman guest Pastor preach on sunday. And on another (non-religious) messageboard I participate in there is a thread for Christian fellowship were when recently polled most participants agreed that women pastors are perfectly fine (even encouraged). It was mostly the Catholics in the thread who dissented. (I say mostly because I am not certain of the results, but I don’t remember any non Catholics being against it.)

Now it occurs to me that perhaps these Protestants are being hypocritical. After all, not only are female Priests/Pastors not found anywhere in the Bible, but Paul gives explicit instructions that women are to be silent in Church.

So why do Protestants accept this?

The most oft-repeated argument that I have heard for allowing women pastor/teachers today is CULTURAL

IOW, at the time Paul wrote, women were neither highly regarded, nor well-treated, but were second-class creatures, and considered to be chattel. I have no handy reference, but have been told in discussions with men who teach biblical history, that Jewish men during that period of time often offered prayers of thanks to God for His having made them men, and not women.

Because of that, and because of the influence of the women’s movement, political correctness, and “tolerance,” etc., many today, in and out of the church, consider Paul’s restrictions on women in church leadership, and teaching to be rooted in the culture of Paul’s time.

Paul teaches:

1 Timothy 2:9-14

9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,

10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Paul does not appeal to culture for his restriction, but to Genesis; namely, man was made first; woman was made from man, and woman was made for man, and not the other way around (Gen 2:7, 22; 3:16; 1 Cor 11:8ff).

God has given the spiritual headship to men; that includes headship within the family structure, as well as within the church.

That does not sit well with some people, and so they rebel.

Women may teach children, and other women, but they may not teach during the assembly of the entire church body.

Those who approve of and allow women pastors are rebellious first, and then hypocrites; to me, the former is more troubling than the latter.

 

[scylla]

Amen Sandusky! Preach it.

God Bless
Scylla

Actually this thread should be, are those who support women preachers hypocrites? Not all Protestants support women preachers.

 

[IHS]

If God could use a donkey,why not a women?

 

[jmcrae]

Very likely.

jmcrae, you are probably close to the truth. But I still wonder how they can justify it with their “It’s not in the Bible therefore it can’t be true” mentality.

Well, if they can’t find the Eucharist in John 6, or the Mass in I Corinthians 11, it’s not surprising that they can’t find any prohibition against female priests.

That, plus the fact that the majority of Protestant groups don’t have anything like a priesthood, to begin with - it’s quite possible that the Bible does not, in fact, prohibit women from doing what Protestant leaders do. (Just thought I’d throw that into the mix, and see what bubbles up!)

 

[Thal59]

Protestants are famous for disagreeing with Catholic teaching because “It’s not in the Bible.” Anything that isn’t mentioned in the Bible is rejected.<<<

The trick here is that many of the things Protestants accuse Catholics of believing that are un-biblical are indeed in the bible. But if one eliminates several books from their bible, and then rewords passages to fit one’s agenda, then it may appear that Catholic beliefs are unbiblical. One can always interpret verses in such a way that they seem to contradict Catholic teaching.

Thal59

 

[arshield]

There are several justifications for women as pastors. As stated above the cultural is primary. But there are others. Paul seems to address and call a woman a deacon in Romans 16:1 and another is potentially called an apostle in 16:7. There is also the role of Priscilla. It has been argued that she was co-leader of the house church with her husband.

A couple of other thoughts from above comments. There certainly were women that were a part of Jesus’ entourage, but they were not part of the disciples. In fact they were described as supporting Jesus and the disciples.

Also women pastors did not start with the feminist movement. There were women pastors that starting soon after the reformation. They were predominately from proto holiness movements, like Weslyans.

Many Protestants have not relied primarily on “Sola Scriptura” but on the leading of the holy spirit as their direction.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Protestants are famous for disagreeing with Catholic teaching because “It’s not in the Bible.” Anything that isn’t mentioned in the Bible is rejected. Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, prayer to Saints… etc. The Catholic Church its self is rejected because “It’s not in the Bible.”

But lately it has come to my attention that alot of Protestants accept women as Priests/Pastors. My own former Protestant Church once had a woman guest Pastor preach on sunday. And on another (non-religious) messageboard I participate in there is a thread for Christian fellowship were when recently polled most participants agreed that women pastors are perfectly fine (even encouraged). It was mostly the Catholics in the thread who dissented. (I say mostly because I am not certain of the results, but I don’t remember any non Catholics being against it.)

Now it occurs to me that perhaps these Protestants are being hypocritical. After all, not only are female Priests/Pastors not found anywhere in the Bible, but Paul gives explicit instructions that women are to be silent in Church.

So why do Protestants accept this?

Why do we Catholics accept Tradition ? Jesus’ only words about it are scathing.​

Why do Catholics accept what certainly looks like “domination over faith”, when this is explicitly forbidden in the NT ? And so on.

We need to be very cautious about making accusations of hypocrisy or any other wrong-doing - most accusations we make, can be made against us with ten times as much justification.

The only thing that shatters the cycle of accusation & counter-accusation is the grace of Christ. It convicts all men of sin, & provides mercy to all; which is far more than justice does. Without it, Christians are locked into an endless & interminable cycle of mud-slinging - which hinders the mission of the Church & brings dishonour to Christ. ##

 

[IHS]

There are several justifications for women as pastors. As stated above the cultural is primary. But there are others. Paul seems to address and call a woman a deacon in Romans 16:1 and another is potentially called an apostle in 16:7. There is also the role of Priscilla. It has been argued that she was co-leader of the house church with her husband.

A couple of other thoughts from above comments. There certainly were women that were a part of Jesus’ entourage, but they were not part of the disciples. In fact they were described as supporting Jesus and the disciples.

Also women pastors did not start with the feminist movement. There were women pastors that starting soon after the reformation. They were predominately from proto holiness movements, like Weslyans.

Many Protestants have not relied primarily on “Sola Scriptura” but on the leading of the holy spirit as their direction.

Amen,God is no respector of persons,It,s the Holy Spirit that speaks not the gender.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Why do we Catholics accept Tradition ? Jesus’ only words about it are scathing.​

Why do Catholics accept what certainly looks like “domination over faith”, when this is explicitly forbidden in the NT ? And so on.

We need to be very cautious about making accusations of hypocrisy or any other wrong-doing - most accusations we make, can be made against us with ten times as much justification.

The only thing that shatters the cycle of accusation & counter-accusation is the grace of Christ. It convicts all men of sin, & provides mercy to all; which is far more than justice does. Without it, Christians are locked into an endless & interminable cycle of mud-slinging - which hinders the mission of the Church & brings dishonour to Christ. ##

I don’t think anyone is implying (though they might be) that Catholics are not also capable of great hypocricy. There is planty to go around.

We have to be careful though when we say that Jesus criticzed certain aspects of tradition so he is making scathing remarks about tradition. He says nothing negative at all about homsexuality, is it therefore acceptable?

Look at 2 Thess 3:6 where Paul speaks postively about tradition.

Also, many Protestants will critcize things like relics as superstition and yet Acts 19:11-12 it says: “So mighty were the remarkable deeds God accomplsihed at the hands of Paul that when face clothes or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them”.

But I do get your point and it is valid

North

 

[Pelagius]

Okay, what about the Pauline instruction that women should cover their heads in the churches? I see a lot of nude female hair in Catholic churches. I also see women reading in the pulpit, during weddings, for instance. And brides recite their vows quite audibly! Shocking .

Seriously, Protestants vary a lot on how to interpret and obey Scripture. In Catholicism, I believe the Pauline Privilege is the only instance of remarriage being permissible after divorce, but among more mainline Protestants it’s been tacitly decided that there are grounds justifying divorce, with remarriage permitted, that rank with the problem of an unbelieving spouse.

Exactly how to interpret Scripture is not a simple matter. I’d say the worst approach is the literalism of the fundamentalists. It leads to rather mad practices and, inevitably, to big inconsistencies.

 

[Newbie2]

Of the two of us, it seems to me you are being the more judgemental.

Isn’t that a judgment call?

 

[khutcheson]

Protestants are famous for disagreeing with Catholic teaching because “It’s not in the Bible.” Anything that isn’t mentioned in the Bible is rejected. Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, prayer to Saints… etc. The Catholic Church its self is rejected because “It’s not in the Bible.”

But lately it has come to my attention that alot of Protestants accept women as Priests/Pastors. My own former Protestant Church once had a woman guest Pastor preach on sunday. And on another (non-religious) messageboard I participate in there is a thread for Christian fellowship were when recently polled most participants agreed that women pastors are perfectly fine (even encouraged). It was mostly the Catholics in the thread who dissented. (I say mostly because I am not certain of the results, but I don’t remember any non Catholics being against it.)

Now it occurs to me that perhaps these Protestants are being hypocritical. After all, not only are female Priests/Pastors not found anywhere in the Bible, but Paul gives explicit instructions that women are to be silent in Church.

So why do Protestants accept this?

Ummmmm…many of us don’t! Many of us consider the ordination of women to be rebellion against God. (1st Timothy 2, 12-14) where Paul prhibits women from teaching men and bases this prohibition on the original sin.

 

[kyle374]

oh my goodness yes they are hypocryts they say faiith saves alone uh read james 2:16-22. ohwell if faith saves alone wait wait wait wait just a moment that means if i believe that jesus is our savior i will be saved ? well satan himself believes that so do all the devils so why arent they saved ? hmmmmm? i wonder and thats not the only thing they are i could writs 10000000000 word essay on it

 

[kyle374]

oh yea jesus told peter you are my kefaw which means rock and on this kefaw i buid MY church but i guess protestants who are so scripture masters lol jk dont read this and when our savior repeated himself more than anything was repeated in the bible. i am the bread that came down from heavenif any man shall eat this bread he shall live forever just read john chapter 6 see how clear he tries to make it that that was his true body and blood but most protestants if you ask them about this most of them will say they have never studied this or james only john 3:16 it crazy

 

[Answersplease]

Why do we Catholics accept Tradition ? Jesus’ only words about it are scathing.​

Why do Catholics accept what certainly looks like “domination over faith”, when this is explicitly forbidden in the NT ? And so on.

We need to be very cautious about making accusations of hypocrisy or any other wrong-doing - most accusations we make, can be made against us with ten times as much justification.

The only thing that shatters the cycle of accusation & counter-accusation is the grace of Christ. It convicts all men of sin, & provides mercy to all; which is far more than justice does. Without it, Christians are locked into an endless & interminable cycle of mud-slinging - which hinders the mission of the Church & brings dishonour to Christ. ##

Ad Hominem argument.