Are Protestants going to Heaven?

[Revelation13_16]

I had a long post all written out to ya Rev…but never mind.
I feel like I’m wasting my time with you.

Perhaps it’s for the best CM, I feel this way alot with Catholics also, mainly it’s because I try to get them to use logic to think, but they’re so entrenched in The Church, they can’t think for themselves, so any discourse breaks down eventually, leaving both parties tired.

You’re no different CM, for what it’s worth, many Protestants are like this also, except they always default to the Bible. This is unfortunately why Atheists hate us Christians.

I highly recommend you go and witness to Atheists, it’ll hurt, but if you come out the other side with your faith intact, it’ll be stronger, you’ll be smarter, and a better apologist for your faith.

The main problem you and I have is this:

I need to be intellectually convinced and in that way I’m alot different to most Christians, some of whom you’ll only have to give the ol’ Catholic exegesis of Matt 16:18, John 20:23 etc and they’ll “convert” at once.

It doesn’t fly with me, I’m university educated, I’m analytical - I know there’s two sides to every coin and examine it.

I question myself daily, I endeavour always to improve myself at substantial cost. (I have no social life, all I do is read, and read)

For this reason, I can understand how some Catholics can become frustrated thinking “why can’t this guy see?”, it’s probably because it would take a Catholic Theologian to convert me, I don’t even think a normal Priest could do it.

Call me arrogant if you like, I don’t care. I don’t consider myself smart (on the contrary), but I’m not easily convinced.

I can understand your position, it’s certainly tiring to explain 1950 years of Church Dogma, but you also have to understand my position, I won’t jump ship unless I’m fully convinced.

This brings us back to Invincible Ignorance, this is what I have, because I’m still not convinced. Perhaps that will subside with more study, perhaps it won’t, who knows?

I don’t expect our discourse to continue, this road I’m on is probably a solo one, I just thought this would be a fitting end to our discussion and I wanted you to see where I was coming from.

I think you’ve misjudged me, but this is bound to happen from where you sit. If you can’t put yourself in someone else’s shoes and see things from their perspective, if you can’t question your own faith sometimes, you’ll only ever win converts that are people who will fall for anything because they haven’t trained their minds in logic.

Go debate with some Atheists CM, it’ll make you a better Catholic. (or break you completely)

If you think your faith is strong enough … that is.

Adios amigo, (amigos para siempre)
Rev

 

[ncgolf]

I need to be intellectually convinced and in that way I’m alot different to most Christians.

Conversion is not of the mind but of the will. Education and intellect have nothing to do with it and the reason is faith is ultimately a submission … a fiat. You have to be willing to submit … to admit you cannot know everything. You are the only one holding yourself back … no one one these boards is doing it. You will have to be a lot more honest with yourself if you are going to get anywhere faith wise. Yours is not an issue of study but of meditation … it has to stew, brew and ferment within you. It is the selfish self-will that must be overcome as that is much more powerful and dangerous than the intellect.

 

[kaycee]

Conversion is not of the mind but of the will. Education and intellect have nothing to do with it and the reason is faith is ultimately a submission … a fiat. You have to be willing to submit … to admit you cannot know everything. You are the only one holding yourself back … no one one these boards is doing it. You will have to be a lot more honest with yourself if you are going to get anywhere faith wise. Yours is not an issue of study but of meditation … it has to stew, brew and ferment within you. It is the selfish self-will that must be overcome as that is much more powerful and dangerous than the intellect.

True conversion is not of the mind or the will but from God only

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who **believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. **

 

[ncgolf]

True conversion is not of the mind or the will but from God only

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who **believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. **

Of course the Holy Spirit is it’s cause but look at these verses … Luke 1:38 “Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” and Mark 14:36 "he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Take this cup away from me, but not what I will but what you will.” In both cases both Mary and Jesus assent to the will of God … knowingly and with everything they had. Both called by God but each one saying yes Lord.

I use the word conversion not in going from Protestant to Catholic or from one religion to another but conversion as turning your will away from your wants to God’s wants regardless of the consequences. We, Catholics use the word fiat in describing Mary. It is saying “yes” to God.

 

[MariaG]

I’m aware of the Scripture (remember I’m a Protestant) and the need for unity, I asked this because you said in explaining CCC 819:

“God certainly works through the protestant Churches and can save people through those churches,”

I didn’t understand this and it seemed to imply that God kept them seperate, since he doesn’t, I don’t understand how God uses Protestant Churches for salvation, because the atonement theories of Christ’s sacrifice is different from Catholicism.

Yet you asked for where the belief that God keeps churches separate is contrary to the bible. God can save people through many things, even bad things that happen. That does not mean that God causes these things to happen or wants bad things to keep on happening. The disunity of the church is a bad thing. That does not mean God can not still use the Protestant Churches.

As for you last comment, as to the Protestant theory of atonement being different from CAtholic, this would need to be discussed more in depth in its own thread.

Or you could have just told me.

Again, if you know the answer to this question, like you know the scripture, why are you asking these questions in the first place?

God can save people through Protestant Churches through preaching the truth that Christ died for our sins. People can either accept this truth or reject it.

don’t understand this.

By this definition, Gnostic Christians were just another denomonation in the Christian Community of that time.

Their “truths” are severely heretical. (Demiurge etc)

It was a typo by me, It should have read "unity is not agreeing on the essential OR not But.

The problem I have is this.

If I’m a great protestant and seek to imitate Christ, what advantage is there for me to become a Catholic if I can make it into heaven as a Protestant?

God Bless,
Rev

Because once you become aware that our Christian community is not what God intended, we should strive to do what God wants and seek out the Church that Christ founded and not a man.

We should desire for that which God desires. He desired us to be one.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Church_Militant]

Perhaps it’s for the best CM, I feel this way alot with Catholics also, mainly it’s because I try to get them to use logic to think,

but they’re so entrenched in The Church, they can’t think for themselves, so any discourse breaks down eventually, leaving both parties tired.

You’re no different CM, for what it’s worth, many Protestants are like this also, except they always default to the Bible. This is unfortunately why Atheists hate us Christians.I find this patronizing.

The fact is that most of my responses to you have been scriptural, historical, and logical and I find your responses less than logical. Has it occurred to you that I find your thinking exactly as you describe here?

I highly recommend you go and witness to Atheists, it’ll hurt, but if you come out the other side with your faith intact, it’ll be stronger, you’ll be smarter, and a better apologist for your faith.

I go where the Holy Spirit sends me.

The main problem you and I have is this:

I need to be intellectually convinced

and in that way I’m alot different to most Christians, some of whom you’ll only have to give the ol’ Catholic exegesis of Matt 16:18, John 20:23 etc and they’ll “convert” at once.

It doesn’t fly with me, I’m university educated, I’m analytical - I know there’s two sides to every coin and examine it.And this I have encouraged.

I question myself daily, I endeavour always to improve myself at substantial cost. (I have no social life

, all I do is read, and read) No! really?!!!

For this reason, I can understand how some Catholics can become frustrated thinking “why can’t this guy see?”, it’s probably because it would take a Catholic Theologian to convert me, I don’t even think a normal Priest could do it.

I think you make more of yourself than you are… If you were all that and a bag of chips then you’d have a harder time with the illogic of Protestant teachings. I’ve already shown you that there are a host of places where they depart from what the New Testament says in their teachings.

Call me arrogant if you like, I don’t care. I don’t consider myself smart (on the contrary), but I’m not easily convinced.

I try not to call you anything…

I can understand your position, it’s certainly tiring to explain 1950 years of Church Dogma, but you also have to understand my position, I won’t jump ship unless I’m fully convinced.

And I expect nothing less from an honest person…

This brings us back to Invincible Ignorance, this is what I have, because I’m still not convinced. Perhaps that will subside with more study, perhaps it won’t, who knows?

Please state your belief concerning invincible ignorance and cite your source.

I don’t expect our discourse to continue, this road I’m on is probably a solo one, I just thought this would be a fitting end to our discussion and I wanted you to see where I was coming from.

Your call…

I think you’ve misjudged me, but this is bound to happen from where you sit. If you can’t put yourself in someone else’s shoes and see things from their perspective, if you can’t question your own faith sometimes, you’ll only ever win converts that are people who will fall for anything because they haven’t trained their minds in logic.

You make invalid assumptions about me. I get the impression that you do not really read what I offer, especially this.

Go debate with some Atheists CM, it’ll make you a better Catholic. (or break you completely)

Garbage, I find them boring. You go play with them if you are so squared away…

If you think your faith is strong enough … that is.

More condescension…

Adios amigo, (amigos para siempre)
Rev

To have a friend one must first be a friend.

 

[clmowry]

This topic of Salvation outside of the Church continues to be one that I struggle with, particularly as it pertains to “invincible ignorance”, especially when it comes to other Christian denominations.

In our effort to promote ecumenical dialogue, some of the post Vatican II language has become so kind as to be cruel.

In an effort to make it clear that the Church does not and cannot place any limitations on whom God can choose to save and how He can chooses to save him / her. We have left folks with the thought…“hey look it says right here in 818 …I’m fine where I am…I might not have the fullness of truth but I’m right there with ya…and hey 90% is close enogh why go through all the pain of making a change?”

We seem to have lost the drive to convert folk to the same Catholicism that so many were willing to die for just a century ago. This kinda drives me nuts.

In our “kindness” I think we make it way to comfortable for folks to come “close enough” and in the process do them a tremendous disservice.

There’s pain in change, there is a cross to bear when it comes to seeking God with your whole self. It’s not nice and comfortable trying to live for God in a world that is constantly pulling you towards anything but God.

I really wonder, who’s more likely to be saved, the sincere Muslim who dies for his faith, the protestant who sees the inconsistencies in the creed of his particular church but is comfortable where he is so he just ignores it or the Catholic who knows he’s in a state of mortal sin and refuses to take the time to make use of the sacrament of reconciliation? (I’m leaning towards the Muslim).

If you are not going to come into the fullness of faith were you better off never having been exposed to Christ at all?

It’s almost as if we’d be better off saying…"Yep, if ya don’t become Catholic your definitely going to hell! Run don’t walk to the nearest RCIA program quick before you get hit by a bus!”

Now granted this is 100% theologically not true but I’m betting it’s practically allot more true than anyone is comfortable admitting.

(I’m being facetious here, I’m not really suggesting that we dupe folks into joining the Church under threat of hell. Join Christ’s Church for the Love of God or not at all.)

Do I think that someone who seeks God with all his heart and soul can through God’s grace be brought to heaven without being officially and visibly united with the Catholic Church while here on Earth. Absolutely 100%. Do I think it happens very often. Nope. Does that person probably exist, yeah, have I met him / her, not that I know of (I’m betting on say Ghandi?)

I’m not about to profess that it’s one in a hundred, or one in a million that are saved without being an official member of the Catholic Church. But I am afraid its not even 50 / 50 for those who are officially members of the Catholic Church.

We are told to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. That the way to destruction is wide, the path to salvation narrow. etc. etc. Yet we continually allow the rumor to spread that “everybody can make it into heaven…pretty much doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you “really” believe it”.

To me if anyone is sincerely seeking the Truth about Christ you have to come to one of two conclusions. Christianity is a myth and of no consequence, or Christ founded a Church and what that Church has to say about God and the path that God has laid out for our salvation is the single most important thing on the planet.

Might there be some folks that are “invincibly ignorant” of that fact? Sure. It’s much more likely that folks are “invincibly arrogant” or “invincibly lazy” or “invincibly uninterested”.

I guess I’ll continue to pray about it…but thoughts would be appreciated.

Rant over…

Chuck

 

[Church_Militant]

Heck Chuck, I couldn’t’ve ranted that out any better.

Like I said before…some n-Cs act like that term is some kind of get outta jail free card or something.

What baffles the living daylights outta me as well is that they are willing to “settle” for what they have and yet many will turn right around and bash hell outta the Catholic Church alleging that we are not “saved” or Christian.

I don’t think there is a minimum requirement to enter the kingdom of heaven and all the proof texting to that end always leaves out tons of other passages that are not only relevant but vital to Christian soteriology.

Me…I want the fullness of faith. All that Our lord has to offer me, and I’ll follow wherever He leads me to do that. It always seems to be to the cross…
Pax tecum,

 

[blessings123]

Lets take two scenarios that would keep me a protestant, and I’d like to know what you think as an experienced Catholic, of my chances of going to heaven.

1. I don’t know if The Catholic Church is true or not, so I’d better stay a Protestant.
2. I believe The Catholic Church was the church founded by Christ, but that subsequently along the way has become corrupt and thus I can’t swear allegience to her today, so I’d better stay a Protestant.

Allow me to clarify these points.

Point 1) I’m guessing is the likeliest outcome of my research if I don’t become a Catholic. It seems hard to discern whether she is or isn’t the true church, because apparently in the early centuries it was the eastern Orthodox church that had the most councils and influence. (correct me if I’m wrong)

Point 2) is a real concern of mine.

I might find out “yes, I believe Catholicism does have a strong link to Jesus” but then I look at Benedict XVI and I’m not sure I trust him. (no offence guys, just being honest)

So, I can’t reject the Papacy, I can’t be a ‘cafeteria catholic’ and I can’t in good conscience swear allegience to the pope when I know in my heart I have no intention of listening to him. (that makes me an imposter)

As you can see, it’s a very difficult situation I’m in, I don’t want to go to hell.

Warm Regards,
Rev13_16

Hi there, I see your are really searching and God will answer you. It has to be very scary deciding which way to go. I empathize. I noticed the difficulty about the current pope. I think that if you come to accept what the church teaches then you dont have to worry about the Pope saying something that will lead catholics in the wrong direction. He teaches nothing new, but what has been handed on to him. He is still a man, you might not like him personally but he cannot teach error. This is where infallibilty comes in. The church is protected. There have been bad popes but none of them taught error.

Im not familiar with the eastern orthodox church history. They are still catholic, so I suppose if you went that way you are still being catholic.

You said the catholic church at one time may have lost her authority through corruption. If this were true wouldnt that mean the gates of Hell had prevailed? I think this is interesting, I’ve heard this from protestants before. Why do protestants believe corruption would demerit , for lack of a better word, the church?

God bless

 

[Revelation13_16]

CM, I had to post to you once more before my vacation.

I found your last post unecesarily nasty, I shall say no more.

I forego a social life to dedicate myself to God, and to study to win converts to Christ.

You laugh. (most charitable)

I study Logic & Philosophy to win the Atheist, because they unlike Protestants have no hope of Heaven.

You don’t, saying that “you find them boring” & “the Holy Spirit leads you where it wants you to be”.

That is all I have to say to you.

---

In response to others who say conversion is not about the mind, but about the Holy Spirit, you are wrong, it’s about both.

Look at Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23:

19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, **so that I might win those who are without law. **

22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

If you look at Paul is saying here, you can see that he takes the spiritual battle to whomever his potential convert is, he becomes “all things to all men” in order to “win them”

If you look at the Greek word here for “win” it’s kerdaino and it means:

1. to gain, acquire, to get gain

1. metaph.

a) of gain arising from shunning or escaping from evil (where we say “to spare one’s self”, “be spared”)

b) to gain any one i.e. to win him over to the kingdom of God, to gain one to faith in Christ

c) to gain Christ’s favour and fellowship

Now ask yourself the following question:

Q. If the Holy Spirit took care of everything, why would Paul have to go to all this trouble?

This is the mistake Hyper-Calvinists make, they believe if you just preach your faith, the Holy Spirit will bring whom he chooses. To those not brung, it is because the Holy Spirit didn’t bring them.

If this is so, then Paul wasted his time trying to be “everything to everyone”.

Yes, nobody converts without the Holy Spirit, but nobody converts without being intellectually converted either, and the Holy Spirit plays a part in that - the biggest part it plays is equipping the missionary with knowledge and a kind nature to “give every man an answer” and be “blameless before men”.

Just something to think about.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Unitas]

I study Logic & Philosophy to win the Atheist, because they unlike Protestants have no hope of Heaven.

Aren’t atheists also invincibly ignorant since they don’t accept Catholicism, according to you?

I quote,“No, If I reject Catholicism because I believe it’s false - I win. (invincible ignorance)”

So what’s the point?

Either invincible ignorance works as you say and every non-catholic (including atheists) is saved, or it doesn’t and even you are in hot water. Which is it?

 

[Church_Militant]

CM, I had to post to you once more before my vacation.

I found your last post unecesarily nasty, I shall say no more.

Then you read more into it than was intended.

I forego a social life to dedicate myself to God, and to study to win converts to Christ.

You laugh. (most charitable)

I laughed because with the “people skills” that you have displayed with me here of late I can believe it.

I don’t see anything in my post that was “nasty”. Nothing was intended that way. If you did then maybe you have problems interacting with people.

I study Logic & Philosophy to win the Atheist, because they unlike Protestants have no hope of Heaven.

You don’t, saying that “you find them boring” & “the Holy Spirit leads you where it wants you to be”.

What do you care either way? An atheist is just another kind of non-believer…I don’t go up to people and say stuff like , “Hey, are you an atheist?” mainly because most people are not.

Atheistic debates are boring to me. I rarely bother. Others may be called to that.

You seem to have everything all figured out. Maybe that’s why you don’t seem to be listening as you bandy “invincible ignorance” around as if you actually understand what you are talking about. I have sought to explain it to you but you don’t want to hear it. That’s not my fault.

So…I’ll break this down for you one last time in the simplest intellectual terms possible and fully in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Please research it carefully so you’ll satisfy yourself that I am correct.

[SIGN]Invincible Ignorance does not apply to you.[/SIGN]

 

[jonk]

Rev,

Rejecting Protestantism against your conscience is also a sin. Shocked?

If you believe that Protestantism is true, by rejecting it, you think you are rejecting the true faith, and by extension, it’s a rejection of Jesus Christ and His will. It doesn’t matter that Protestantism is objectively false. I’m impressed with your humility and your desire to discern the truth with the use of reason, despite the fact that many posters here have been uncharitable towards you.

You said you were on the fence. Try to understand the Church’s teachings and her claims of legitimacy. There is no rush. Use your reason and logic to determine whether her claims are true. Look at various sources, Catholic as well as Protestant. You don’t have to decide tomorrow, but I do suggest that in the meantime, you try and follow Jesus Christ in the best way that you can as a Protestant.

For you to commit a mortal sin, you need to do it wilfully, remember. So as long as you do not wilfully shut your eyes - i.e. choose to remain ignorant by neglecting to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church, you are still trying to follow Jesus Christ in the best way you know how and your current Protestantism is not a mortal sin. If you died tomorrow and went to hell, this would not be the reason why - heaven is not closed to you.

This means, however, that as long as you cannot in good conscience affirm the claims of your own tradition or reject those of Catholicism, or affirm the claims of Catholicism and reject those of Protestantism, it is your duty to keep searching for answers in a thorough, honest and objective way. It would be a grave sin for you to fail to do so.

So do your best to find the Truth by investigating both Protestant and Catholic sources. Based on your posts, you seriously misunderstand some things about Catholicism. This is not an insult to your intelligence - I can see that you are intelligent based on what you’ve written. It is merely a statement of fact - understanding these things takes some time, so don’t expect to come to a conclusion overnight. It may take months or even years.

God loves you. He has already brought you out of the paganism of this culture into a relationship with His Son, and I pray that He will continue to guide you. Accepting the Christian faith, even if Protestant, is a gift of grace and I am proud of you for choosing to accept Jesus Christ and I hope your faith has been a blessing to you. I trust that you are sincere, that you love God and that you are striving to do His will. I applaud you for that and I ask that God bless you abundantly in your journey, my friend.

Take care

Jon

 

[Beyrak]

Perhaps it’s for the best CM, I feel this way alot with Catholics also, mainly it’s because I try to get them to use logic to think, but they’re so entrenched in The Church, they can’t think for themselves.
Rev

You seem to be stuck on this notion of ‘sola scriptura’. Scriptures written by Catholics for Catholics, BUT being translated incorrectly by men who left the True Church. You are wanting to make this an “intellectual” debate, and it’s not that complex. Christ adores the poor and disadvantaged. He didn’t make this brain science as some protestants would like you to think.

From your logic, imagine all those poor lost souls that are burning in hell because there was no protesting church the first 1500 years after Christ’s life. And all those poor lost souls the first 300 years after the life of Christ as there were no scriptures. Then imagine all those poor lost souls because most could not afford a bible the next few hundred years.

How anyone could think that Christ would come to earth, make his sacrifice, set up his Church then abandon it later is beyond me, and more like wishful thinking on a lot of protestants.

I believe the answers you need will only be answered by reading the ‘Early Church Fathers’.

And your reasoning that it is safer to be a protestant is beyond me. According to them, just repent and your saved (and even baptizing is optional with baptists, so maybe they the Southern Baptist Convention should change their name to Southern Optional Baptist Convention).

And they believe that once saved, always saved. Your done, never obligated to live one righteous day in your life. Who can believe this? Oh yea, protestants, especially baptists.

Once saved always saved is so against the scriptures.

2 James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

**2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. **

Even St Paul was concerned for his own soul in, 2 Corinthians: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So once saved, always saved is out if one believes the above, even from Saint Paul. Or the apostle Paul for you protestants.

So if we trust the scriptures, we must now be forgiven for any mortal sins we have committed. So how can any Church except the Holy Catholic Church with the succession of Bishops have the authority to give absolution? None! I was a baptist and this scared me to death. I converted!

Read carefully as Christ himself said this when he gave the Church authority of absolution, something that can only be passed down in the succession of bishops.
**
John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.**

Safer to be protestant, one of those 33,000 churches invented by man? Ok, if you feel that way. I certainly couldn’t sleep at night as a baptist.

Can protestants get to heaven? I hope so for my dead and living relative’s sake. But I’m not going to gamble on my own eternal soul.

As for me, I believe in **One Holy Catholic Apostolic **Church

 

[ctos]

Are Catholics going to Heaven?

I think it was Arbp. Fulton Sheen who said that in Heaven there will be three surprises:

1. Who isn’t there.
2. Who is there.
3. That we’re there.

Anyone setting family and friends aside for Jesus and His Church will be rewarded.

 

[M_Oliver]

Are you saying if I believe in Jesus I’ll be saved irrespective of what Chruch I attend?

Love,
Rev

God says so. Do you doubt the inspired Scriptures?

 

[Tomster]

As to members of Christian denominations separated from the Catholic Religion, we freely admit that they may actually be saved. This is quite true, but it is equally certain that they will be saved not by by means of Protestantism, but in spite of it. Protestantism as such has no saving power; hence whoever is saved in that system, is saved not in so far as he is a Protestant, but in so far as he is a Catholic, though not knowing it. For a God fearing Protestant may retain and profess some purely Catholic doctrines, which may be the means of supernatural grace and eternal salvation to those who yield to their influence. Of course, we suppose in such an individual valid baptism and true, sufficient repentance of all grievous sins that may have been committed. But we must, at the same time, bear in mind the fact that genuine and distinctive Protestant doctrine can save nobody; they can only hinder and impede salvation, so long as they are willfully adhered to. What are these genuine Protestant doctrines? They are such as the doctrine that the Mass is a blasphemous superstition; that the Pope is not the successor of St. Peter, the head of the Church, the Vicar of Christ, but a usurper; that he no prerogative of infallibility; that there are not seven sacraments; that Christ is not substantially present in the Holy Eucharist; that there is no Purgatory; that the invocation ofthe Saints is contrary to Bible teaching; that the Scriptures need no authorized interpreter; that private judgment has supplanted the authority of the Catholic Church. Now these are distinctly Protestant doctrines, incapable of saving anyone, since they have been shown to be utterly false and pernicious, and as such cannot be employed by Almighty God as channels of grace and instruments of salvation.

 

[Sixtus]

As a disholusioned ROMAN catholic, the lack of charity on this forum stongly suggests to me that protestants will be going into heaven ahead of catholics.

I am yet to meet an arrogant protestant. I am yet to meet one who bullies in order to prosecute bigotry. I think that purgatory fits catholicism as it is only the catholics who have need of it!

I am astonished how many for example think ‘soul’ and ‘spirit’ are homogenous. Not many protestants seem to have a problem with it, why so catholics?

The problem is that catholics are in fact protestants, but they are just too proud to admit it. The true church whose roots go back to the apostles, I have come to realise is the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church.

The first protestants were the roman catholics and then the lutherans.

 

[Sixtus]

As for me, I believe in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church

Shame that church isn’t the Roman!!

 

[Sixtus]

As a disholusioned ROMAN catholic, the lack of charity on this forum stongly suggests to me that protestants will be going into heaven ahead of catholics.

I am yet to meet an arrogant protestant. I am yet to meet one who bullies in order to prosecute bigotry. I think that purgatory fits catholicism as it is only the catholics who have need of it!

I am astonished how many for example think ‘soul’ and ‘spirit’ are homogenous. Not many protestants seem to have a problem with it, why so catholics?

The problem is that catholics are in fact protestants, but they are just too proud to admit it. The true church whose roots go back to the apostles, I have come to realise is the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church.

The first protestants were the roman catholics and then the lutherans.

I believe in the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church

Shame it isn’t also Roman