Are speaking in other tongues at every Catholic mass

[Cari]

Excuse me but you are speaking nonsense…
There are a whole bunch of elements that should be existing in a Christian’s life along side the Mass… you know that. To give you a few examples: confession, fellowship, love, humility, zeal, joy, the Bible, preaching etc.

YOU, GraceDK, have been speaking about the use of tongues within the context of the Mass, as per the OP. You have NOT been speaking of the living of a fully Christian life. So when you suddenly end a post ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE MASS with the phrase,

I’ll any time say that the Pentecostals need something we have but also that they have something we need.

then one, following a logical thought train, is led to believe you are speaking of deficiencies in the Mass that Pentecostals can help fill in.

As for the list of “elements that should be existing in a Christian’s life along side the Mass”, none of the ones you’ve listed are exclusively “Pentecostal”, so the original phrase of yours I’ve quoted still exists without context, if you’re denying you were speaking of the Mass.

Secondly,

And for correction I will say: there is not a continuation of the Sacrifice of Christ… there is a re-actualisation of a one-time event.

Again, this shows your lack of understanding of the Mass, if you refuse to admit it IS a continuation of Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross. Perhaps a clearer appreciation of the Mass would be in order before you “double dip” at non-Catholic “worship services”?

As for the rest of your post, I have only this part to say:

But for some reason we rarely hear a prophetic word in our congregations… … And I think its due to this pridefull talk saying: “We have the Eucharist and so we dont need anything else…”. But this is arrogance and you should know better… not only that, its not the fullness of life in Christ… The Pentecost had not yet happend at the last Supper or at the Crusifixion…

I find your expressed lack of understanding sad. The Eucharist has been called “the source and summit” of our faith- not speaking in tongues. Saint after saint teaches us about the necessity and importance of the Eucharist- not speaking in tongues. The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Incarnated, Crucified, Risen, Ascended, Eternal Christ- speaking in tongues isn’t. To say that Jesus- present in the Blessed Sacrament is not the fullness of life in Him because “the Pentecost had not happened” is to once again display your ignorance. To somehow imply that the Eucharist, without the “benefit” of speaking in tongues is somehow lacking is to commit the tired old Protestant “you’re not saved without displaying the gift of tongues”.

The Eucharist is a sacrament- last I checked, not any of the charismatic gifts you listed were.

 

[GraceDK]

GraceDK,
How do you propose to change the liturgy to allow for the speaking of tongues?

Actually this is a complicated question as you know… (I hope you are not using sarcasm by the way because I am very serious) … It would take a big decision in high places in the hierarchy because it means allowing other people than the priest to have a role in the liturgy… The centredness on the priest as a sole acting figure on behalf of the congregation has been a tradition for so long and there would have to be a shift in thinking where the ordinary priesthood of the laity would discover and come forth with their respective gifts. This demands not only openess for the supernatural on a very clear level but also a fellowship in the congregation that does not always exist today… I mean in the way that we trust a whole group of people as apostles, prophets, people with words of knowlege, people with healing gifts, gifts of interpretation of tongues etc. who will minister to the rest of the congregation.
Again I am now talking strictly from the Bible. These things were there because the Lord and the apostles found them useful… Especially we know from the first christian decades that the Christians were known for their ability to heal the sick and these signs brought many converts as did prophesy and other gifts… If we read about these things and see how many people became Christian because the Holy Spirit was allowed to do awesome things, we will get a feeling of: where are these things today… we need them more than ever.
Look I am not out to critizise for the sake of critizising… I am well aware that the majority of clergy do their best… and I respect that… but I will not say that we can’t all improve… I will not set my own low standards as the standards for everyone else either.

Then if you ask me about where tongues should fit in in the Mass… it will be a subjective answer because the Acts of the Apostles do not tell and neither do the epistles … But I would say: where the other gifts og healing and prohesy, words of wisdom and knowlege, mighty deeds and exorcisms etc would fit in… In my eyes there might be some of this on both sides of the liturgy of the Eucharist.
If the people of God had a growing awareness in this area of Christian life I think the room for it might come in a quite natural way… but as I have said before… I sense there is much fear among many of my fellow catholics who feel insecure many times simply because the charisma are unfamiliar and might seem in a way out of our control (which they are… but in a good way

 

[GraceDK]

Cari.
I find your hostility and misinterpretation of my stance disturbing… I experience it as though you attempt to put words into my mouth…
I have to go to sleep now but will address your post tomorrow.
The fact that you question my due honouring of the Eucharist just because I praise the Charismatic gifts is just… I dont know even how to reply to such an attack …

One thing to consider until I respond you back: what is the place of fellowship and evangelisation in your “ideal parish church”… mind you none of these are sacraments… but they are nevertheless crucial for a healthy Christian life.

Adieu until tomorrow

 

[Marsha_Adams]

It would take a big decision in high places in the hierarchy because it means allowing other people than the priest to have a role in the liturgy… The centredness on the priest as a sole acting figure on behalf of the congregation has been a tradition for so long and there would have to be a shift in thinking where the ordinary priesthood of the laity would discover and come forth with their respective gifts.

The priest stands in the place of Christ during the liturgy of the Mass. Christ alone has a role in the Sacrifice of the Mass. There is no room for any other participant.

There is certainly aplace within the CHurch for all other forms of prayer and praise, but that place is not within the Mass.

 

[ibkc]

Again I am now talking strictly from the Bible. These things were there because the Lord and the apostles found them useful… Especially we know from the first christian decades that the Christians were known for their ability to heal the sick and these signs brought many converts as did prophesy and other gifts… If we read about these things and see how many people became Christian because the Holy Spirit was allowed to do awesome things, we will get a feeling of: where are these things today… we need them more than ever.

But the Catholic Church doesn’t forbid speaking in tongues. There is of course the charismatic movement, and I read somewhere that John Paul II was a tongue-speaking, don’t know how true that is.

Then if you ask me about where tongues should fit in in the Mass… it will be a subjective answer because the Acts of the Apostles do not tell and neither do the epistles … But I would say: where the other gifts og healing and prohesy, words of wisdom and knowlege, mighty deeds and exorcisms etc would fit in… In my eyes there might be some of this on both sides of the liturgy of the Eucharist.

I am reading an interesting book right now, The Mass of the Early Christians, which compiles primary sources to reconstruct how orthodox Christians worshiped in the first few centuries. Now, I haven’t finished it, but so far in my reading there’s nothing to suggest that speaking in tongues was ever formally part of the mass. So if Acts and the epistles do not tell us to speak in tongues during the mass, and the ECFs don’t tell us to, I’m just not sure where the authority for tongues at mass comes from. We are free to gather in charismatic groups, shouldn’t that be enough? We have the words of wisdom of knowledge in the Biblical readings, but it seems to me that things like prophesying, exorcisms and speaking in tongues would take away our attention from the Eucharist. What do I know, though - I’m a pretty new Catholic.

 

[Nan_S]

I went to Mass with a charismatic retreat group who were very vocal (at least amongst themselves) with tongue speech to accent congregational responses during the liturgy.

Wasn’t too bad, until…

When the priest consecrated and elevated the Precious Body and Precious Blood, the warbling and babbling reached a fever-pitch. Now, I applaud their enthusiasm. But it was SORELY misguided.

When the Precious Body and Precious Blood are elevated, bells are rung and the congregation LISTENS. We who are not properly ordained priests neither speak nor echo the words of consecration in ANY language, including tongue-speech.

GIRM Paragraph 78: *The Eucharistic Prayer

*78. Now the center and summit of the entire celebration begins: namely, the Eucharistic Prayer, that is, the prayer of thanksgiving and sanctification. The priest invites the people to lift up their hearts to the Lord in prayer and thanksgiving; he unites the congregation with himself in the prayer that he addresses in the name of the entire community to God the Father through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, the meaning of the Prayer is that the entire congregation of the faithful should join itself with Christ in confessing the great deeds of God and in the offering of Sacrifice. The Eucharistic Prayer demands that all listen to it with reverence and in silence.

 

[happygal]

To what i understand, the catholic have a separate charismatic service apart from the normal Sunday mass. But usually during the official mass nobody speaks in tongue.

 

[Nan_S]

To what i understand, the catholic have a separate charismatic service apart from the normal Sunday mass. But usually during the official mass nobody speaks in tongue.

Catholics have several approved Rites for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

– We have a Novus Ordo Roman RIte (in Latin and in the common language of each country, i.e. the vernacular)
– We have a Tridentine Roman Rite (Latin, old style)
– We have several Eastern Rites for the Eastern European churches that are in full communion with Rome
– We even have an Anglican Rite for formerly Anglican/Episcopal churches that have re-joined full communion with Rome
– I believe there are a few others as well

What we do NOT have is a Charismatic Mass Rite, in any language, especially in “tongues”. Thankfully. Mass in the vernacular with electric guitars is bad enough, IMHO.

 

[DebChris]

I believe that God gives the gift of tongues and I know of a handful of people personally who believe they have this gift.

What the gift of tongues is: A gift to be used to His glory

What the gift of tongues is not: Something that everyone has and to be used in a public display every time they worship

To everything there is a time and purpose.
The people that I know who have this gift do not even speak of it, Kelly

The purpose of the tongues is praise and worship of God. It is the Holy Spirit who guides its use and those of us who do have this gift are called to respect the time and place. It would be disruptive were I to pray in tongues at a Mass where others would be uncomfortable. Even if I am singing while I walk, I will generally stop as others approach.
It is the same with other forms of prayer. I have been asked for directions while praying the rosary. After giving those directions, I simply went back to what I was doing.

The priest stands in the place of Christ during the liturgy of the Mass. Christ alone has a role in the Sacrifice of the Mass. There is no room for any other participant.

There is certainly aplace within the CHurch for all other forms of prayer and praise, but that place is not within the Mass.

Actually we all called to be active participants in the worship of the Mass. The priest does indeed stand in place of Christ.

 

[Famule]

If not why not?

Speaking in tongues means that you speak and everyone understands in their own language. It does not refer to babbling in a way that no one can understand you. Do you see this happen often?

Luke

 

[mangy_dog]

If not why not?

At the mass I go to its in Spanish but the priest is not Hispanic and so some of his prayers are in English and some other prayers like the Anima Christi and the Sancte Michael Archangele are said in Latin.

So, how’s that for “tongues”. ?

Gospa Mir.