Are strict vegetarians acting morally?

[PatienceAndLove]

I am vegetarian, and I have seen my weight drop and my cholesterol go down.
Plant based diets are lower is saturated fat, and provide all of the vitamins you need. It is quite easy to obtain the needed amino acids in several products (such as Bragg’s liquid aminos) and the need for meat is not there.
I do, on occasion, consume fish.
As for Lent, I go vegan to make more of a sacrifice.
As for cost- I can buy much more food now that I am not purchasing meat. I only purchase faux meats on occasion, and have actually learned to make my own.

 

[Celeste88]

After studying the concept of vegetarianism for quite some time, and having the opportunity to talk to several vegetarians, I have come to the conclusion that not only is it OK to eat animals; it is the good and moral thing to do so. I saw a bumper sticker several years ago that perhaps oversimplified this concept, but nonetheless rang true. “If God did not want us eating the animals, why did he make them out of meat?”

‘Strict vegetarianism’ would seem to be rejecting one of God’s gifts, and to be entertaining the heresy that mankind is not much more beautiful and meaningful to God than the animals. It seems difficult to raise animals up to near the value of mankind without the value of mankind being lowered to that near an animal as a result. Since rejecting God’s gifts and promulgating heresy are serious issues, this is a topic I would like to increase my understanding of.

I’d like to pose one of the many questions that I have been unable to have adequately answered to date: (please feel free to post, of course, but if you post, please do me the courtesy of trying to answer this very important question for me)

Why do strict vegetarians believe that it is OK to eat plants but not animals?

Plants are living things that were created by God as part of his Creation. The plants do not choose to be eaten. They have no free will to choose, just like the animals. We take them by force and eat them. They can’t even run away, they are so helpless. They die in the process of being harvested and eaten; their life is taken for our needs.

And yet, vegetarians must believe that there is something inherently different between eating God’s living creatures we have classified as plants, versus eating God’s living creatures we have classified as animals. And it gets a bit sticky, because plant versus animal is man’s classification system, not God’s. We invented that classification system. And biologists know that it is an imperfect classification system. Some species have attributes we associate with plants and animals both. It’s impossible to accurately classify them.

Anyone have the answer (one that makes sense)?

Dan

I just stumbled upon this thread and didn’t read all the answers so I’m not sure anyone answered the plants vs animals question you posed.

Animals have a nervous system and a brain. Now some have a more primitive brain (fish, reptiles) and some a more complex brain (mammals). Like it or not we are classified as mammals. We have fur (a little) give live birth, nurse our young and live in complex societies. So do some animals, (lions, wolves, chimps, for example) Our brains are the most complex and our frontal brain the biggest. However, animals can think, have emotions, they have sleep and dream cycles. Plants do not. Mammals are warm blooded - if you cut a turnip, it will not bleed! (hence the saying, you can’t get blood out of a turnip LOL) Show me a plant that has a brain or a nervous system. Plants…are well…in a kind of…vegetative state. If they are not going to be eaten by us, then they are going to be eaten by the thousands of species of birds, fish, insects and mammals they are supposed to provide for.

 

[Katie1723]

heard that wasn’t entirely true… that SDA die of a certain kind of cancer (can’t recall which one)…

And I am sure someone here can tell you all the diseases meat eaters can die of.
We all eat what we want for various reasons. Diet is but one part in how we maintain good health.

Kathy

 

[JLSacred]

The below excerpt is from Health Benefits of Vegetarianism

*Health Benefits of Vegetarianism
Compared with non-vegetarians, Western vegetarians have:

A lower average Body Mass Index (BMI) (by about 1 kg/m2).
A lower mean plasma total cholesterol concentration (by about 0.5 mmol/l).
A lower mortality from IHD (by about 25 percent).
They may also have a lower risk for some other diseases such as constipation, diverticular disease, gallstones and appendicitis.
The evidence available suggests that widespread adoption of a vegetarian diet could prevent approximately 40,000 deaths from IHD in Britain each year.
The Seventh-Day Adventist Church Health Study
This is the only major ongoing study on the general health and mortality of vegetarians in the U.S. Data was collected from 1976-1988. Of the 34,192 participants, all members of the Seventh-day Adventist church: 29 percent were vegetarian, while 7-10 percent of the vegetarians were vegan.

Compared to non-vegetarians the above vegetarians had about:

1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
1/2 the colon cancer
2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis and prostate cancer
Breast, lung, & uterine cancers tended to be lower in vegetarians but could have been due to random chance.
Vegetarian Life Expectancy
Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study have recently been published. They show that this group of Seventh-day Adventists appears to be the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).*

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I am a “strict” vegetarian and I am an orthodox Catholic as well. There is no conflict between the decision not to eat meat and Christianity. Scripture grants us dominion over the animals but it does not establish that we have to eat them. In fact, I find it difficult to believe that you think Scripture establishes meat eating as morally superior. I’m not saying eating animals is immoral but just because something is permissible does not mean we have to engage in it.

The high consumption of various meats has been linked by several studies to increases in certain cancers. I can post a few articles from WebMD, once my computer stops acting slow.

Anyways, the claims made here that vegetarianism is unhealthy is incorrect.

eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/home_4334_ENU_HTML.htm

eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/home_4635_ENU_HTML.htm

webmd.com/cancer/news/20070416/fruits-and-veggies-cut-cancer-risks

 

[Black_Jaque]

I follow Granny’s old dietary plan.

You are what you eat.

---

So… vegetarians are vegetables?

 

[Katie1723]

I follow Granny’s old dietary plan.

You are what you eat.

So… vegetarians are vegetables?

Better a vegetable than a cow.
Kathy

 

[aurora77]

Well, it can sound ridiculous to you but its true…

I know many people who are nearly the age of 100. All of them eat meat daily.

The Okinawans eat pork daily and they live longer than any other society…

I have studied this kind of thing for many years…

Can you show us some stats as to why vegetarianism is unhealthy? If you’ve studied this for years, you must have much for us to read on the subject.

Back to the OP, I’m not really sure why our food consumption is a moral issue. While there are some vegetarians and vegans who believe animal and human life are equal, the problem lies with their philosophy, not with the refusal to eat meat or other animal products.

 

[contramundum7]

The below excerpt is from [Health Benefits of Vegetarianism

Compared to non-vegetarians the above vegetarians had about:

 

[contramundum7]

And I am sure someone here can tell you all the diseases meat eaters can die of.
We all eat what we want for various reasons. Diet is but one part in how we maintain good health.

Kathy

i’ve been eating meat all my life and am healthy as a horse. My blood pressure is excellent (about 100/67), my cholesterol is excellent (hi HDL, very low VLDL, Triglycerides 38), and i can walk for miles & miles without getting winded. Sometimes people take me for much younger than i am…

Jesus ate meat @ the Passover…

As stated elsewhere, the Okinawans eat pork virtually daily and they live longer than anyone on the planet…

 

[PatienceAndLove]

JLSacred;2133608:

I would suggest Dr. Atkin’s Anti-aging book. IThere is some interesting info in there about cholesterol.

I wish people would stop referring to Dr. Atkins. It has been proven time and again that his diet is entirely too high in saturated fat, etc.

You have your view, as a carnivore, and we, as vegetarians, have our view.
We are never going to see eye to eye on this, why continue it?

 

[Sandi]

I would think it’s morally neutral, except for the holier-than-thou attitude that borders on arrogance that some vegetarians exhibit.

 

[Sandi]

**Vegetarians seem to get cancer a lot… **

I doubt that but if they do, it’s probably because our food supply is so contaminated with pesticides.

 

[MariaG]

I wish people would stop referring to Dr. Atkins. It has been proven time and again that his diet is entirely too high in saturated fat, etc.

You have your view, as a carnivore, and we, as vegetarians, have our view.
We are never going to see eye to eye on this, why continue it?

Respectfully, what people have not “proved” that Dr. Atkins diet is too high in fat. What people commonly THINK of Atkins is too high in fat but what Atkins recommends is not. Atkins does NOT recommend eating bacon for every meal or even every day. It has also been shown that those who are successful on Atkins, even IF they eat bacon everyday, are actually eating more healthily than they used to. Atkins actually gets them eating veggies, something that frequently these people did not eat ANY of.

Atkins For Life is very similar to the South Beach Diet which is recommended by many Dr.'s. The South Beach Diet is commonly referred to as a kind of Low-Fat Atkins, but again, it is similar to the “Atkins for Life”.

What people need to realize is that some are better off eating meat, some are better off as vegetarians. Eat for your blood type seems to be a good step in the right direction that acknowledges that different people react differently to different types of food.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Respectfully, what people have not “proved” that Dr. Atkins diet is too high in fat. What people commonly THINK of Atkins is too high in fat but what Atkins recommends is not. Atkins does NOT recommend eating bacon for every meal or even every day. It has also been shown that those who are successful on Atkins, even IF they eat bacon everyday, are actually eating more healthily than they used to. Atkins actually gets them eating veggies, something that frequently these people did not eat ANY of.

You’re right. I’m sorry.

What people need to realize is that some are better off eating meat, some are better off as vegetarians. Eat for your blood type seems to be a good step in the right direction that acknowledges that different people react differently to different types of food.

So true.

Vegetarianism/Veganism is a personal choice, whether it be morally or healthfully.

 

[MariaG]

You’re right. I’m sorry.

So true.

Vegetarianism/Veganism is a personal choice, whether it be morally or healthfully.

Not a problem. And I agree that it is completely a personal choice, and see no case whatsoever for vegetarianism to be immoral, the contention of this thread.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I would think it’s morally neutral, except for the holier-than-thou attitude that borders on arrogance that some vegetarians exhibit.

I agree. There are plenty of arrogant vegetarians and vegans out there. But this thread, and my personal experience, has shown me that this arrogance is also a problem for meat eaters.

 

[distracted]

I am vegetarian, and I have seen my weight drop and my cholesterol go down.
Plant based diets are lower is saturated fat, and provide all of the vitamins you need. It is quite easy to obtain the needed amino acids in several products (such as Bragg’s liquid aminos) and the need for meat is not there.

 

[JLSacred]

I agree. There are plenty of arrogant vegetarians and vegans out there. But this thread, and my personal experience, has shown me that this arrogance is also a problem for meat eaters.

People of any and all stripes can be arrogent.

Why are some here worried about what others eat? Jesus told us specifically not to concern ourselves with this. If some want to abstain from animal products, more power to them. Why so much emotion on the part of some? We are supposed to be Christians.

 

[distracted]

contramundum7;2135067:

I wish people would stop referring to Dr. Atkins. It has been proven time and again that his diet is entirely too high in saturated fat, etc.

You have your view, as a carnivore, and we, as vegetarians, have our view.
We are never going to see eye to eye on this, why continue it?

I refer to Atkins, not because of what i’ve read (yet, that too). Its because of how i have applied his principles to my life. I feel better when i eat low-carb. I have been on many diets. That one is the best. My blood profile is excellent when i follow his plan. The only thing i disagree w/ him on is fasting. Well, i don’t know i disagree because he doesn’t say much about fasting. I believe in fasting. I believe in eating only when u r hungry and that usually means once or twice a day (4 me).

Also, i have come to learn that it is probably best to eat a little of some kind of protein or fat with every meal (usually) because, 4 one thing, that slows down the glycemic (carb/sugar) effect, preserves the pancreas, etc.