Are Subdeacons "Ordained"?

[TimothyH]

Recent threads mention the ordination of subdeacons. I’m not sure this is a correct use of the term ordianation. I believe it is not but want to be sure.

Does a subdeacon undergo the sacrament of holy orders?

CCC 1538: Today the word “ordination” is reserved for the sacramental act which integrates a man into the order of bishops, presbyters, or deacons, and goes beyond a simple election, designation, delegation, or institution by the community, for it confers a gift of the Holy Spirit that permits the exercise of a “sacred power” (sacra potestas)5 which can come only from Christ himself through his Church.

My understanding is that the word ordination has a specific meaining in the Church which it does not have in the secular or non-Catholic Christian world; that the word ordo or order simply means a group, especially with regards to a civil authority, but an order can be the the Order of Bishops, Order of the Nights of Malta or even the Order of the Moose Lodge. To be ordained in the common use of the term is to be initiated into the group in some manner. My father was ordained into the Order of the Freemansons by a certain ritual they use, but such a use of the word ordained is not the same as the Latin Church’s use of the word ordained.

So I ask in all sincerity again… is a subdeacon ordained in the sense that the word ordained is used in Catholicism? Has the subdeacon undergone the sacrament of holy orders? My understanding is that there are only three sacramental or “Holy” orders, the ordo episcoporum, the ordo presbyterorum, and the ordo diaconorum.

Is a subdeacon a member of the ordo diacanorum or are they insititued into the Order of Subdeacons apart from the sacramental order of the diaconate?

Any information would be appreciated.

-Tim-

 

[YoungTradCath]

They are not sacramentally ordained. There is no sacramental order of the subdiaconate. However, this is always the word that was used, that is, “ordained.” All the traddie groups use it and no one seems to care, so I would not say that it is incorrect or anything.

 

[twf]

Historically, the verb “to ordain” was used much more loosely by the Church…ancient documents speak of the ordination of monks, nuns, abbots, abbesses, lectors, exorcists, deaconesses, etc… as Latin theology developed, terminology became increasingly precise. Today, all of the above would be considered special sacramentals, or blessings, conferred by the Church’s authority, that set the individual apart for a special vocation or ministry in the Church, but not the sacrament of ordination to holy orders. It is my understand that this is also true of the subdiaconate. The term ordination has been used traditionally, but this is a remnant of the older, wider usage of the term - properly speaking, the rite of ordination of a subdeacon would be a sacramental and not the sacrament of holy orders.

 

[Rich_C]

TimothyH,

I think this quote from the Baltimore Catechism answers the question, at least for the previous ordination process. The short answers is that the four minor orders are preparation for ordination, and all three of the major orders (priest, deacon, subdeacon) are simply part of the receiving the sacrament. The catechism author says it better, below.

Q. 978. What is the Sacrament of Holy Orders?

A. Holy Orders is a Sacrament by which bishops, priests, and other ministers of the Church are ordained and receive the power and grace to perform their sacred duties.

Q. 979. Besides bishops and priests, who are the other ministers of the Church?

A. Besides bishops and priests, the other ministers of the Church are deacons and subdeacons, who, while preparing for the priesthood, have received some of the Holy Orders, but who have not been ordained to the full powers of the priest.

Q. 980. Why is this Sacrament called Holy Orders?

A. This Sacrament is called Holy Orders because it is conferred by seven different grades or steps following one another in fixed order by which the sacred powers of the priesthood are gradually given to the one admitted to that holy state.

Q. 981. What are the grades by which one ascends to the priesthood?

A. The grades by which one ascends to the priesthood are:

Tonsure, or the clipping of the hair by the bishop, by which the candidate for priesthood dedicates himself to the service of the altar;
The four minor orders, Porter, Reader, Exorcist, and Acolyte, by which he is permitted to perform certain duties that laymen should not perform;
Sub-deaconship, by which he takes upon himself the obligation of leading a life of perpetual chastity and of saying daily the divine office;
Deaconship, by which be receives power to preach, baptize, and give Holy Communion. The next step, priesthood, gives him power to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and forgive sins. These orders are not all given at once, but at times fixed by the laws of the Church.

Q. 982. Are not the different orders separate Sacraments?

A. These different orders are not separate Sacraments. Taken all together, some are a preparation for the Sacrament and the rest are but the one Sacrament of Holy Orders; as the roots, trunk and branches form but one tree.

Q. 983. What name is given to sub-deaconship, deaconship and priesthood?

A. Sub-deaconship, deaconship and priesthood are called major or greater orders, because those who receive them are bound for life to the service of the altar and they cannot return to the service of the world to live as ordinary laymen.

 

[martininthefiel]

My understanding: Subdeacons used to be ordained in the Latin Rite Church, but as of 1 January 1973, the order was abolished by Pope Paul VI, except in some very limited circumstances. The functions of a subdeacon are now performed by lectors and acolytes, not ordained ministers.

 

[malphono]

TimothyH,

I think this quote from the Baltimore Catechism answers the question, at least for the previous ordination process. The short answers is that the four minor orders are preparation for ordination, and all three of the major orders (priest, deacon, subdeacon) are simply part of the receiving the sacrament. The catechism author says it better, below.

OK, but although subdiaconate was classified (or “mis-classified” but I digress) as a “Major Order” it was never considered truly Sacramental in nature. IOW, a subdeacon bears no “indelible mark” as is the case with deacons (and priests and bishops, too, of course). Should a subdeacon decide to leave, he is easily and readily dispensed.

 

[Rich_C]

OK, but although subdiaconate was classified (or “mis-classified” but I digress) as a “Major Order” it was never considered truly Sacramental in nature. IOW, a subdeacon bears no “indelible mark” as is the case with deacons (and priests and bishops, too, of course). Should a subdeacon decide to leave, he is easily and readily dispensed.

Where do you get that from? I’m ready to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood, but the Catechism says:

Q. 983. What name is given to sub-deaconship, deaconship and priesthood?

A. Sub-deaconship, deaconship and priesthood are called major or greater orders, because those who receive them are bound for life to the service of the altar and they cannot return to the service of the world to live as ordinary laymen.

Admittedly, I’m not sure what the post-Paul VI situation is, myself. What has become of subdeacons in the reestablished permanent diaconate? I see our subdeacon at Solemn Mass once a month, but maybe he is a deacon with less seniority than the other deacon.

 

[TimothyH]

Where do you get that from? I’m ready to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood, but the Catechism says:

Admittedly, I’m not sure what the post-Paul VI situation is, myself. What has become of subdeacons in the reestablished permanent diaconate? I see our subdeacon at Solemn Mass once a month, but maybe he is a deacon with less seniority than the other deacon.

Rich, that’s part of my question. Was the situation prior and to which the Baltimore Catechism references, was that not changed to better reflect the difference between those who recieve the sacrament of Holy Orders and those who do not?

-Tim-

 

[Rich_C]

Rich, that’s part of my question. Was the situation prior and to which the Baltimore Catechism references, was that not changed to better reflect the difference between those who recieve the sacrament of Holy Orders and those who do not?

-Tim-

I wish I knew, too. I read the whole CCC and never picked up on the fact that deacons are ordained until someone told me recently. Now I’m trying to read the whole BC to work on the basics.

I’ll bet the writings of Pope Paul VI would shed some light on the Church’s intentions in supressing minor orders and changing the diaconate. Maybe check the Vatican’s website?

 

[archangel04]

I don’t mean to take the topic of track, but I know that in traditional circles their seminarians are also ordained as exorcist. So I am wondering if they are ordain at this level and then realize that becoming a priest is not part of God’s will can they leave? Or is to too “late?”

 

[YoungTradCath]

I don’t mean to take the topic of track, but I know that in traditional circles their seminarians are also ordained as exorcist. So I am wondering if they are ordain at this level and then realize that becoming a priest is not part of God’s will can they leave? Or is to too “late?”

The traddie seminaries confer all of the minor orders. “Confer” is the word used for those, not “ordain.” Yes, you can receive anything up to the subdiaconate before being actually ordained sacramentally, which starts with the diaconate, thus you can leave seminary. In fact you can leave seminary even after you are ordained a deacon; they can’t make you receive sacerdotal ordination.

 

[archangel04]

The traddie seminaries confer all of the minor orders. “Confer” is the word used for those, not “ordain.” Yes, you can receive anything up to the subdiaconate before being actually ordained sacramentally, which starts with the diaconate, thus you can leave seminary. In fact you can leave seminary even after you are ordained a deacon; they can’t make you receive sacerdotal ordination.

Sweet I appreciate the quick response

 

[giuseppeTO]

The traddie seminaries confer all of the minor orders. “Confer” is the word used for those, not “ordain.” Yes, you can receive anything up to the subdiaconate before being actually ordained sacramentally, which starts with the diaconate, thus you can leave seminary. In fact you can leave seminary even after you are ordained a deacon; they can’t make you receive sacerdotal ordination.

The Ecclesia Dei Institutes do confer the minor orders and therefore sometimes refer to them also as ordinations, not to be confused with the marking of the soul with the indelible mark of priestly ordination.

They also take vows at the subdeaconate level, again, not to be confused with priestly ordination.

Laicization is required, I believe, if one leaves the deaconate, but not the sub-deaconate.

Edited by moderator

 

[Chatter163]

And subdeacons are styled “The Rev. Mr. _________.”

 

[Lujack]

And subdeacons are styled “The Rev. Mr. _________.”

I’m not sure that necessarily says anything about the sacrament; if I was writing a letter to a Protestant minister I would use the same style, but he clearly has not received an indelible mark on his soul.

 

[Chatter163]

I’m not sure that necessarily says anything about the sacrament; if I was writing a letter to a Protestant minister I would use the same style, but he clearly has not received an indelible mark on his soul.

Yes, but we are not Protestants, so their usage means little in this context, My point was that subdeacons in traditional communities are still given that title, just as they were in pre-V2 days, when the subdiaconate was considered a major order.

 

[Lujack]

Yes, but we are not Protestants, so their usage means little in this context, My point was that subdeacons in traditional communities are still given that title, just as they were in pre-V2 days, when the subdiaconate was considered a major order.

Right, but what I mean is that the question is about whether or not they are sacramentally ordained; we already use the title Reverend as a courtesy even for people who are not sacramentally ordained, so whether or not someone gets called Reverend doesn’t bring us any closer to the answer.

 

[newyorkcatholic]

There are no subdeacons anymore outside of trad groups, so I’m not sure it’s legit to apply the CCC statement to the subdiaconate when that probably wasn’t he church’s intent.

Sure, in trad groups men are ordained to the subdiaconate. It’s not sacramental, but it’s more than just a minor order.

Given the changes since Paul VI abolished minor orders but trad groups are allowed to continue conferring them (implying they are not really abolished but sort of abolished-for-most-purposes-but-not-all) we are just going to have to tolerate this ambiguity in terminology.

I myself still refer to the rite which makes a man a bishop as a consecration, not an ordination, though I accept that it is an ordination as well.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

OK, but although subdiaconate was classified (or “mis-classified” but I digress) as a “Major Order” it was never considered truly Sacramental in nature. IOW, a subdeacon bears no “indelible mark” as is the case with deacons (and priests and bishops, too, of course). Should a subdeacon decide to leave, he is easily and readily dispensed.

In the Byzantine Rite of the EC Churches, one truly is ordained a Subdeacon and if one would like to become a married EC priest, one has to be married by the time he is ordained a Subdeacon. Should he be ordained a Subdeacon in the celibate state, he is not free to marry afterwards.

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

In the Byzantine Rite of the EC Churches, one truly is ordained a Subdeacon and if one would like to become a married EC priest, one has to be married by the time he is ordained a Subdeacon. Should he be ordained a Subdeacon in the celibate state, he is not free to marry afterwards.

Alex

I heard there is a difference between Greeks and Slavs in this regard. Greeks can still marry when ordained as a subdeacon, but that is not the tradition of the Slavic Churches. I got this info from a friend who is being ordained a subdeacon in the Melkite Church, and he is very much interested in getting married but today he is not.