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kill051
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Simple and elegant. Could not have said it better myself.
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meltzerboy2
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Some forms of Messianic Judaism do this, but not all. There are different kinds of Messianic Judaism.
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meltzerboy2
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I am speaking mainly of the modern version or reconstruction of Nazarene Judaism. As to Nazarene Judaism of ancient times, the exact status accorded to Jesus, whether He was considered by Nazarene Jews to be the Son of Gd in addition to the Messiah and whether they believed in a Triune Gd, is debatable.
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Moses613
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I’m sure there are, thanks for clarifying.
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mcq72
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I beg to differ ( from OT Judaism). Sure hindsight is at play here, but I would think such hindsight that I refer to has been around since the beginning of Christianity. Certainly the OT deals with sin, and God’s grace and restoration of men and women, that restoration being a type of salvation we still have today (being “born of Gd”, “born of the Spirit”, or “born again”. It always involved faith, and shedding of blood.
Not sure, but I mean even in Christianity it is not taught that only Christians will be “saved”. Folks who have not heard the Word of God, via Judaism or Christianity, can follow their conscience and yield to God’s imprint on man and the universe. However, I was generally speaking of those who have had contact with the perspective messages in OT and NT. They must convert to be "saved’. That is rejection of their proclamations can not be considered “good”.
Partly agree that the Law can not save. I would say Judaism, the OT, is much bigger that the Law, in the sense that you have the Prophets and Writings also. Certainly Adam and Eve, and Abraham were before the Law, and gave evidence of this restored spiritual life, of sin covering, by grace and faith in and from Gd. As to the Law again, we are taught it was/is the schoolmaster that kept us focused on the need for "saving’’, from our shortcomings /sin and that truth is quite objective in this. Kind of like we would not know our archery is not perfect, even flawed , with out a bulls eye target, that is impossible to hit every single time. The Law then provided for the old blood covering for such failings, but the entire OT, starting at Genesis, at the Garden point to a one time blood shedding, of one satisfying justice, of a perfect target hitting new Adam, propitiating for the old Adam and his imperfect seed.
As to afterlife and this life, I would think OT teaches the aim of life is to please Gd, even glorify Him.
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meltzerboy2
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I agree most with your last statement (sentence). Since this is the ultimate aim of Judaism, accompanied by repairing the world by performing good deeds, which may also be thought of as a glorification of Gd through His Law, the Law becomes instrumental in enabling us to please and glorify Gd. Any salvation which accompanies this is an earthly salvation by means of lending to our individual lives their meaning and purpose, their essence. An additional salvation is in a collective sense in that the Jewish people as a people, a nation will continue to exist so long as they follow the Law. Even when the Messiah comes, the Law remains irrevocable. It preexisted the universe and will survive its end. Judaism is virtually all about the study of the Law and its application. The Christian form of salvation, which has as its goal the individual’s eternal bliss in heaven, the Beatific vision in the presence of Gd, is not the same in Judaism. We are coming from different directions in this respect. Even sin, which you mention in regard to the Hebrew Scriptures, although no doubt present and important in its avoidance, is not quite so important as the focus in Judaism on doing good, which may be likened to sins of omission if not performed, but nonetheless emphasizes the positive rather than the negative side of human behavior and human nature.
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Margaret_Ann
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Galatians 4.
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Margaret_Ann
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The Messiah has come and His Name is Jesus Christ.
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EdwardJP
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The way I was taught to understand it is based on the New Testament. The first churches were in a gentile region and gentiles were placed on the same spiritual level. I agree with other comments that the Jews served a purpose prior to Jesus coming to earth. After that their special status was removed.
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ConstantLearner
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No, ur doesn’t. It bears no similarity to evangelicals at all!
I am not a Messianic Jew at any rate.
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ConstantLearner
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I have family members I never knew, of course, who died in the Holocaust. My sisters and I had our genealogy done, by a professional, or I probably would not know this.
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ConstantLearner
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Yes, she was, I’m happy to say.
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Moses613
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This study from a “journal of Messianic Judaism” avers that MJ is rooted in the evangelical movement:No, ur doesn’t. It bears no similarity to evangelicals at all!
Source: Home - Kesher Journal
Of course, the story is more complicated than boiling it down to one word like evangelicalism. But that is the parent religion, so to speak, of this movement.
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Moses613
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Margaret Ann, please note the title of this section of the forums, “Non-Catholic Religions”. This is a place where non-Catholic and even non-Christian religions are discussed. Your comment contributes nothing to the discussion, as everyone understands that Catholics and Christians such as yourself believe in a messiah named Jesus. If the discussion disturbs you, you can choose to browse other forums. Declarations of piety are unnecessary.
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God_Is_So_Great
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The Catholic Church is not the New Jerusalem.
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mcq72
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The few communities I have visited, know of, are not operating stealthily, and are quite transparent in their Jewish message.
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kainosktisis
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I don’t think that Moshe Rosen, the founder of Jews for Jesus would’ve considered their group to be a stealth evangelical sect. I’d met him before, & he seemed very passionate for Yeshua HaMaschiah when I was Protestant. At one of the churches where I’d been a member in the past, we had a group from Jews for Jesus come visit us, & Jewish worship is awesome - they dance! 
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steve-b
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They are still people of the old covenant. Jesus wanted them to be part of the New and everlasting covenant. That’s why before He ascended back to heaven He gave the apostles the following instructions.
When Jesus said the following
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And preach as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons…
Matt 15: 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”[e] 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
while Jesus words look one way on the surface, otoh, that looks to me like Jesus is giving the Jews, the people of the covenant, 1st right of refusal to accept the new and everlasting covenant, and He is putting full attention to that goal.
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• the result of that effort, the Church in the beginning was 100% Jewish.
• yet Jesus did interact a few times with Gentiles, and was particularly impressed with the Roman centurion and what he said to Jesus. Such that Jesus said He hadn’t seen faith like that in all Israel Matthew 8:5-13 . And we make the same powerful profession of faith before we receive Jesus in the Eucharist.
• The HS inspired Peter to open the covenant up to Gentiles by baptizing Cornelius AND his whole family
• And Paul being frustrated with his fellow Jews because of their resistence to him, mentally and physically, THEN was inspired to go to the Gentiles.
Thus it looks to me, Jesus and His apostles gave the Jews first right of refusal by focusing on them first.
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jlhargus
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The Messiah speaking in Mt5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
For those interested who may not have a New Testament the following link is to BibleGateway.com
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ConstantLearner
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You sound like you would rather the Jews NOT believe in Christ!
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