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aroosi
Guest
Thank you for finding the words of what I would have loved to say in reply to this thread.
Are the lives of dogs in particular given importance or not? I want to know the view on them, given what we know about them
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PennyinCanada
Guest
I think that’s one sided. There are people who are very good to their dogs yet are mean as anything to people.
If a person is cruel to a dog, they aren’t listening to anyone that they shouldn’t be doing that. Certainly not to a Christian church.
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Calliope
Guest
Dogs and humans are social (pack) animals and share certain social traits.
Stories of dogs starving because their human died may seem noble or whatever, but hardly makes them a saint.
Would we think it’s a beautiful selfless act for a man to fall into a depression and starve himself because his wife passed or would we seek professional help for him? Other animals will sometimes fall into a funk even to the point of wasting away at the death of their owner, animal friend or mate.
The idea that dogs are the paragon of selfless love never made sense to me. Yes, some dogs are devoted to their family or owner, others, not so much, even when their owner is good to them.
I have friends who have several dogs each and they love and care for all but each dog varies in degree of loyalty, deference and cooperation as a member of the family.
Years ago a neighbor’s dog decided he wanted to live with our family instead of theirs. They were good to him, wanted him, but he liked us. We never let him in the house (they did) but he chose to live in our yard rather than stay over there. Then one day he left us, chose a neighbor around the corner (after about 4 years with us) and stayed with that man.
They have a wide range of personalities. I’ve seen cats, rabbits, and birds who seem just as devoted to their human as a dog can be. (albeit perhaps a smaller % than dogs) Though some people love the sort of attention they get from their dogs and feel it’s selfless love, others feel the same behavior is annoying emotional neediness and self serving other than selfless.
Stories of dogs starving because their human died may seem noble or whatever, but hardly makes them a saint.
Would we think it’s a beautiful selfless act for a man to fall into a depression and starve himself because his wife passed or would we seek professional help for him? Other animals will sometimes fall into a funk even to the point of wasting away at the death of their owner, animal friend or mate.
The idea that dogs are the paragon of selfless love never made sense to me. Yes, some dogs are devoted to their family or owner, others, not so much, even when their owner is good to them.
I have friends who have several dogs each and they love and care for all but each dog varies in degree of loyalty, deference and cooperation as a member of the family.
Years ago a neighbor’s dog decided he wanted to live with our family instead of theirs. They were good to him, wanted him, but he liked us. We never let him in the house (they did) but he chose to live in our yard rather than stay over there. Then one day he left us, chose a neighbor around the corner (after about 4 years with us) and stayed with that man.
They have a wide range of personalities. I’ve seen cats, rabbits, and birds who seem just as devoted to their human as a dog can be. (albeit perhaps a smaller % than dogs) Though some people love the sort of attention they get from their dogs and feel it’s selfless love, others feel the same behavior is annoying emotional neediness and self serving other than selfless.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Cats frequently “crash” and quit eating and even pass away when their owners die too. It’s a natural reaction to a significant loss.
Dogs and cats don’t become saints over this because they do not choose to live lives of heroic virtue. They are just doing what they were created through genetics and programmed through evolution and breeding to do.
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Convert3
Guest
No hearts for you!
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NeedImprovement
Guest
Very well put @Jimbo .
As @EndTimes said - no moral hierarchy.
But here’s a little food for thought : How about a little immoral hierarchy, so to speak ?
I wish I could remember exactly where and when I had read this, and please bear in mind that what follows did come from private revelation:
But I had definitely read somewhere that, generally Satan detests dogs more than he detests the other animals particularly because of their unswerving loyalty towards man.
Kind of logical . . .
. . . How’s that for a diamond in the , “ruff !” ?
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EndTimes
Guest
errmmmm… Kind of rough…As @EndTimes said - no moral hierarchy.
But here’s a little food for thought : How about a little immoral hierarchy, so to speak ?
I wish I could remember exactly where and when I had read this, and please bear in mind that what follows did come from private revelation :
But I had definitely read somewhere that, generally Satan detests dogs more than he detests the other animals particularly because of their unswerving loyalty towards man.
Kind of logical . . .
. . . How’s that for a diamond in the , “ ruff !” ?
Some dogs turn on their masters and kill them… Happens often…
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EricF
Guest
Lincoln is following this thread with great interest. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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EndTimes
Guest
Hi Lincoln! (does he bite?)
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NeedImprovement
Guest
Perhaps an honourable mention for the seeing-eye dogs for the visually impaired, police dogs, bomb sniffing dogs , Military Facility Dogs . . . , sheep dogs, cattle dogs.
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CRV
Guest
Dogs are very important to many people and fulfill many roles to assist mankind. But they are not equal to humans. They should not be loved more than the people in our lives. The right order is people first, then our pets/companions.
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NeedImprovement
Guest
Where I live , our population currently stands at a little more than 37.7 million people. According to this article from January 1983 to May 2017 Canada has had an average of 1.16 deaths caused by dogs per year during that interval. That represents all deaths - not only owners, but children killed by their grandparents’ dog, by neighbour’s dogs, by no relation dogs, by dog packs, by sled dogs. I’m not sure how the descriptive “often” could fit relating to those statistics.
It gets sketchier after that. There doesn’t seem to be an agreed upon statistic for every dog attack - fatal or not. I believe whatever figure they may come up with in the future would probably be a conservative estimate, seeing as not all dog attacks get reported ( I know I didn’t report the last 2 times it happened to me).
This article maintains that in the US (population of roughly 331 million people) roughly 15 deaths per year occur due to dog attacks ; again, that appears to include all people - not just owners.
Granted, none of this is pleasant, but I don’t quite see how the Canadian statistics at least, could concur with the "happens often " portion of
. . . Just my limited opinion ( I don’t mean to hound you).
Hi Lincoln.
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TK421
Guest
The problem with this thinking (not getting into the theology aspect but just the behavioral and biological aspect) is that domestic dogs are A) hierarchal pack animals, and B) kept in lifelong close proximity with humans, so they end up demonstrating behavior that is more relatable to us or that we find likeable, such as loyalty.
For scientists who study other animals in the wild: no, dogs are not more special. A raccoon that knocks over the garbage cans is disliked because it’s a pest, but it also has an intelligence and a personality and an intricacy that easily rivals a dog. An octopus is extremely complex and has a personality, but it doesn’t have facial features or expressions that are anything like a human or other mammal, so it isn’t as relatable to us as a dog is. Also, any animal that lives in a more complex social structure (elephants, primates, other pack animals, etc.) is going to demonstrate behavior that is comparable to a dog’s loyalty.
So, the favoritism towards dogs or cats is just that: favoritism. It doesn’t really say anything in terms of inherit value. Yes, dogs are amazing animals, but not necessarily more amazing than other animals God created.
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po18guy
Well-known member
My thunder is gone! In Clementine Vulgate-based translations of Tobit, the dog accompanied them on the journey.
My favorite OT book. A “mini-Job”, it involves nearly every human experience: captivity, freedom, illness, healing, death, birth, travel, safe return, tears of sorrow and joy, marriage, fasting and feasting, murder and retribution, great loss and great recovery, accompaniment by man’s best friend and by God’s messenger - the Archangel Raphael. Easily read in one sitting, I highly recommend it. The Vulgate editions (Knox, Douay-Rheims) are descendants of Saint Jerome’s work and IMO are warmer and more human. And, what I find to be the most six comforting verses in the OT:
We are tested because we are acceptable to God. I find great comfort pondering that. OK. Shameless derail over.
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Jimbo
Guest
Agreed on your point. But then at the end I saw your pun and it gave me paws.
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PuerAzaelis
Guest
All things are possible with God, and some of the doggos are indeed worthy of doggo heaven.
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EndTimes
Guest
In my neck o the woods - larger and apparently more dangerous than yours?
pit bulls are not uncommonly used as protection,.
… and yes, they do attack humans … even their owners,
and thus, yes, they make our news
No… In Catholicism - dogs are not given any special importance …
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on_the_hill
Guest
My neighbors have a dog. It barks at everything that moves, including me, when I’m in my own yard. It barks at 6AM. It barks at 10PM. It barks at any time in between. My bedroom window is very near to the neighbor’s yard. I lived here for 20 years in peace and quiet.
Most of the other families in the neighborhood own dogs. Do you know how many of their dogs bark? None. Not a single other dog is heard. Other neighbors have complained to each other about the barking dog. Then they remember how close I live to the barking dog and realize how much better life is for them.
The people who own the barking dog are renting their house. Their landlord told me he doesn’t want a dog there but he was willing to let it slide because they told him they were dog sitting. That was about six months ago. They had had the dog about three months before they told him that. I don’t think they’re dog sitting. I think they’re dog owing.
I think that dog has got to go. Maybe they’ll go with it. I don’t care.
To report it to the police, it has to be barking for a period of 15 minutes. I doesn’t bark that long. But let me tell you, a single bark is enough at 6 AM (or 4AM, as happened the other day).
Most of the other families in the neighborhood own dogs. Do you know how many of their dogs bark? None. Not a single other dog is heard. Other neighbors have complained to each other about the barking dog. Then they remember how close I live to the barking dog and realize how much better life is for them.
The people who own the barking dog are renting their house. Their landlord told me he doesn’t want a dog there but he was willing to let it slide because they told him they were dog sitting. That was about six months ago. They had had the dog about three months before they told him that. I don’t think they’re dog sitting. I think they’re dog owing.
I think that dog has got to go. Maybe they’ll go with it. I don’t care.
To report it to the police, it has to be barking for a period of 15 minutes. I doesn’t bark that long. But let me tell you, a single bark is enough at 6 AM (or 4AM, as happened the other day).
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Peebo
Guest
Who says we won’t see Fido…Fluffy… or Flicker… in heaven…Personally I don’t think God…who created all things and declared it good…is…at a specific point in time…ie…the second coming of our Lord…is then going to say ok…so now I’ll just get rid of all the other things I once declared good…the Bible tells us that we cannot even begin to comprehend the things God has prepared for us…so I’ll keep believing that I’ll still see all the wonders of Gods creation that we have now…and even more so… if by Gods grace I make it to heaven
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EndTimes
Guest
I don’t over worry or think about animals in Heaven or not.
What shall be shall be perfect…
So why worry
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What shall be shall be perfect…
So why worry
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