Are there 2 kinds of Leftist philosophy?

[wittgenstein]

Response to post 55 point B,
So you have a problem with asking,“What would Jesus do”?

 

[Pugsly]

Great wealth (for an individual )is created by speculation (stock market,insider knowledge). Work is far less rewarded (taxes are less on the rich.Capital gains are taxed less then wealth created by work*). This results in gambling being rewarded more then work. I believe that the work ethic is more in line with Christianity then the gambling ethic.

• Work is both physical and mental. Those that come up with creative ideas are rewarded less then those that bet (invest) on those creative ideas.

It is almost shocking to read the work ethic espoused on the side of Leftism today. I am speechless…smiling…and speechless.

 

[Pugsly]

Response to post 55 point B,
So you have a problem with asking,“What would Jesus do”?

I don’t ask What would Jesus do? It’s a ridiculous question. Jesus would bring all things into existence and sustain them. Can I do that? Jesus would put aside all the glory of the Godhead and pour Himself out as an eternal expression of perfect Mercy…and then mercifully carry us forever. Is that what I should aim at? On the flip side of that question (WWJD?) Jesus didn’t storm Hitler’s bunker in WWII with guns ablaze…Jesus does not do alot of difficult things we do to make a civilized world.
In short, you are Wittgenstein…a wonderful Christian brother with a loving heart. Take on the wedding garment of Faith, Hope and Charity…and open your eyes to the disasterous evil that is “Christian Leftism.”

 

[wittgenstein]

Jesus is a role model. The point of asking “what would Jesus do” is not to be as perfect as Jesus. Jesus is an example of what we should aim for. If we act as Jesus would then our actions and thoughts are correct.

 

[wittgenstein]

Response to post 62
Isn’t it strange that liberals are thought of as being elitists (very successful ) and also as believers in being lazy.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son
**
The Pope, and our Bishops, have called on nations to provide social assistance, in addition to what the private charities provide, because of the enormity of the problems. That’s a fact. I have to wonder why you added a spin to what was said? **

We are apparently talking about two different things. The State may enter into a supportive emergency relationship with people who are struggling to survive. The Bishops have no problem with that. I do think the Bishops have, or ought to have, a problem with the increasing social programs that are designed to keep people voting for the party that keep voting “stuff” for them, people who thrive on the public dole, have no intention of getting off it, and are willing to sell their souls to the devil so long as the stuff keeps coming at them.

All the countries of Europe, which are now deep into socialism, are struggling to keep afloat. Ironically, most of their government could care less whether they are doing their Christian duty. What they really care about is increasing their control over the minds, hearts, and bodies of the masses.

And they are going broke doing it.

What the Pope and Bishops have called for is more than ‘a supportive emergency’ role.

Through Christian values, are we concerned with our ‘neighbors’, or the money?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal…I am now summarizing a philosophical movement that has been hundreds of years in the making. It is not only political…it is throughout Western culture. Leftism has thoroughly soaked into Christianity in America.
My questions here are not “judgements” or “preaching” or “Pharisaism” or “anti-Catholic doctrine”. I am merely point out what Leftism is based on…and asking if Christians can be Leftist…is it an oxymoron.

Some of those ‘summaries’ are not considering how some of your list is applicable through Christ’s commands, because of your own biased political view.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

True. I think many left wing Catholic and Protestant Christians hide behind the banner of “social justice;” and use it to justify everything from illegal immigration, to arbitrary gun-control, to an unfair confiscatory tax system. Some will even vote for pro-abortion politicians with enthusiasm.

The same can be applied to those on the right who use a few issues to advance their views on other issues.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have some replies to your position: A) 3 of the 10 commandments are about NOT wanting what other people have.
B) Where does scripture say Christians are to act out what is recorded in the book of Acts? So the small group of believers shared equally (for a short time until racism crept in)…that’s great! So St Paul swam for it and made it out of the sea alive…thank God! So Paul and Barnabas avoided a brawl…that’s great too!..where does it say that I’m to follow that as an ideal?
C) Leftist Christians have sweet hearts for the anawim and the environment and for health and safety…etc…but Leftism is a worldly philosophy that scripture CLEARLY warns against.

Christ gave two commandments, one of which was to love your neighbor. Christ didn’t say not to help people, or to qualify them. You are replacing some people’s needs with wants, as if it’s against the commandments, and it’s not the same.

We are to obey our prelates, according to St. Paul. St. Paul gives instructions on the Eucharist. We have an example, and instructions. We are not to dissect the scriptures to fit them to our view, but fit our views to scriptures.

It can be said that scriptures are warning against the ‘me, me, me’ philosophy of what the right says it’s goals are. As I said, it’s the intent in one’s heart, and no one on this earth can see in another person’s heart. Christ is our judge, and He will judge us all. He was not political, and neither is scriptures. If one sees a ‘clear’ political message in scriptures, I believe they have misinterpreted the scriptures.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t ask What would Jesus do? It’s a ridiculous question. Jesus would bring all things into existence and sustain them. Can I do that? Jesus would put aside all the glory of the Godhead and pour Himself out as an eternal expression of perfect Mercy…and then mercifully carry us forever. Is that what I should aim at? On the flip side of that question (WWJD?) Jesus didn’t storm Hitler’s bunker in WWII with guns ablaze…Jesus does not do alot of difficult things we do to make a civilized world.
In short, you are Wittgenstein…a wonderful Christian brother with a loving heart. Take on the wedding garment of Faith, Hope and Charity…and open your eyes to the disasterous evil that is “Christian Leftism.”

The question is, what would Jesus want me to do. He gave plenty instructions and teachings in the Gospel. Love one another, feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor/stranger, care for the sick, blessed be the peacemaker, sell all that you have and give it to the poor, then come follow me.

The great evil in the secular world is greed, short and simple. It’s not a message of Christ’s.

 

[christofirst]

Pugsly,

Were you sincerely asking the question you posted at the start of this thread? Your subsequent posts indicate that your mind is already firmly decided on the matter.

Blessings to you,
Chris

 

[christofirst]

As long as I’m still thinking about this, I would hold up Dorothy Day as an example of a leftist Christian, certainly a Catholic with leftist leanings.

Staunchly pro-life (after the indiscretions of her youth), she was also a champion for the rights of all, including those already born, with a preference for the poor and disenfranchised. Yes, she was suspicious of government welfare agencies, because (IMO) she knew how greed and corruption can ruin the best of intentions, but she was still a thorn in the side of the rich, promoting and supporting labor unions, the rights of immigrants, and communal living. And she was a committed pacifist.

In spite of these aspects which oppose right-wing thinking, she is in the process of being declared a saint of the Church.

Can one be completely leftist, say a Communist, and still be Christian? I must say no to that. Can one embrace the positive aspects of a leftist philosophy and still remain Christian? I must say yes to that.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Prodigal Son

What the Pope and Bishops have called for is more than ‘a supportive emergency’ role.

If they have called for leftist socialism, please cite the documents.

 

[Pugsly]

Jesus is a role model. The point of asking “what would Jesus do” is not to be as perfect as Jesus. Jesus is an example of what we should aim for. If we act as Jesus would then our actions and thoughts are correct.

So if Jesus was never fired upon by a criminal…(and therefore never fired back)…our police force should disarm???

Using Jesus as the Way to the Father means taking up my personal cross each day…not making sweeping public policy. Obviously a banker needs to make profits or his employees will all be laid off…a police officer has to defend life and property…etc.

 

[Pugsly]

Pugsly,

Were you sincerely asking the question you posted at the start of this thread? Your subsequent posts indicate that your mind is already firmly decided on the matter.

Blessings to you,
Chris

Actually…I am well versed in Leftism and have studied from the Greeks to Modernity to the Social Gospel movement to present day. I am quite seriously looking for an insight into how a Christian can become thoroughly Leftist and remain Christian.
I know that there is an Epicurean/atheist type Leftist that the early Church stood against. I know that it was reborn in the Enlightenment…and found its way into the Social Gospel movement…and the Social Gospel preachers were so “liberal” trhat there was a backlash…“The Fundamentals (of the Faith)” was published 3,000,000 copies in 1903. Hence, there were Christians divided against Christian (the Liberal Social Gospel preachers vs. the Fundies) over a hundred years ago. By the time of the Scopes Trial the battle became red-hot in America.
Now Christian Leftist are pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality and so fiscally irresponsible that one wonders about their common sense.
So I can sense 2 kinds of Leftist...but I can't tell them apart.

 

[Pugsly]

As long as I’m still thinking about this, I would hold up Dorothy Day as an example of a leftist Christian, certainly a Catholic with leftist leanings.

Staunchly pro-life (after the indiscretions of her youth), she was also a champion for the rights of all, including those already born, with a preference for the poor and disenfranchised. Yes, she was suspicious of government welfare agencies, because (IMO) she knew how greed and corruption can ruin the best of intentions, but she was still a thorn in the side of the rich, promoting and supporting labor unions, the rights of immigrants, and communal living. And she was a committed pacifist.

In spite of these aspects which oppose right-wing thinking, she is in the process of being declared a saint of the Church.

Can one be completely leftist, say a Communist, and still be Christian? I must say no to that. Can one embrace the positive aspects of a leftist philosophy and still remain Christian? I must say yes to that.

Thank you…Dorothy Day…I forgot about her. I will look back into her life again.

 

[Pugsly]

Response to post 62
Isn’t it strange that liberals are thought of as being elitists (very successful ) and also as believers in being lazy.

I was smiling because present day America is making food stamps EBT mainstream, rolling back the work requirements for welfare, 2 plus years of unemployment pay and general laziness a Leftist gift to a our people.

 

[Pugsly]

It can be said that scriptures are warning against the ‘me, me, me’ philosophy of what the right says it’s goals are…

Prodigal…brother…Do you really want to stand by that quote?

I have never mentioned my own personal political position here. (even though you keep calling me a right wing type) I am a Christian…that is all. I use the term “Leftism” in a very broad way…going back beyond the advent of Modernity.

So, where can I find these “me, me, me” philosophical goals laid out in writing? Maybe I missed something.

 

[Pugsly]

The great evil in the secular world is greed, short and simple. It’s not a message of Christ’s.

And Christians on the Right like getting manipulated???..and…are for getting rid of safety nets???

No sir…I respectfully disagree.

The greatest (exterior) evil in the Western world today is lust and covetousness. Leftism openly promotes both.

The greatest interior evil might be presumption…with Christians happily walking the broad road of all kinds of sin and feeling God’s “unconditional love” has got their back.

 

[ManOnFire]

The great evil in the secular world is greed, short and simple. It’s not a message of Christ’s.

And how do you judge greed? $4 for a cup of coffee? Are the sellers and buyers both greedy?