Are there 2 kinds of Leftist philosophy?

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Pugsly

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There are Leftists that come from atheism. There are Leftist “Christians” too. My study of Leftism comes to the conclusion that Leftism is a god-free philosophy. It is fear-based and primarily concerned with self-preservation. Leftism is…as St Paul wrote a "worldly philosophy, having a form of godliness [concern for the Weak] but denying the power thereof [Jesus as Lord].
I know that coming to grips with a world that is “red in tooth and claw”, where the Strong can dominate the Weak without a moral authority to stop them, pushes atheists toward Leftism. I know that Christians care for the Weak because of empathy and the Biblical call to do so…but are there really 2 kinds of Leftists?
Can a Christian be Leftist in a theistic worldview?
 
Pugsly said:
There are Leftists that come from atheism. There are Leftist “Christians” too. My study of Leftism comes to the conclusion that Leftism is a god-free philosophy. It is fear-based and primarily concerned with self-preservation. Leftism is…as St Paul wrote a "worldly philosophy, having a form of godliness [concern for the Weak] but denying the power thereof [Jesus as Lord].
I know that coming to grips with a world that is “red in tooth and claw”, where the Strong can dominate the Weak without a moral authority to stop them, pushes atheists toward Leftism. I know that Christians care for the Weak because of empathy and the Biblical call to do so…but are there really 2 kinds of Leftists?
Can a Christian be Leftist in a theistic worldview?
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You seem to take liberties to associate modern terminology with that which St. Paul wrote.

You state ‘fear-based and primarily concerned with self-preservation’ as solely connected to one view, yet conservatives seem more occupied with ‘self-preservation’; e.g. gun rights for defense, against immigration, against social programs, etc. etc. It seems to be a ‘me, me, me’ mentality, that defines the ‘self-preservation’ you speak of, in my opinion.
 
As a devout Catholic with leftist leanings, I will attempt to give my understanding. The power of God is very often made manifest through us, the people of God. We are God’s arms and legs, as the saying goes. As members of a civil society, working together for the good of all - both the weak and the strong, we share our resources for the common good. It is not based on fear, it is just common sense. Whether it be a family, a church community, a union, or a democracy, working together and pooling our resources for the good of all seems to me a very good and Christian way to live. Does this sound utopian? Yes. As long as we are imperfect people, we will never have a perfect system. Even if a philosophy is perfect in theory, we imperfect people will find a way to mess it up. But we keep trying!

So I guess my answer to your question is yes. There are different motivations which can lead to a leftist philosophy. People will develop an agenda based on their belief, or lack thereof. There is the godless leftism of Communism, which sees religion as a threat to the power of the state, and there is a faith-based leftism, whereby we all work together, acknowledging our many differences, for the benefit of all.
 
Pugsly said:
There are Leftists that come from atheism. There are Leftist “Christians” too. My study of Leftism comes to the conclusion that Leftism is a god-free philosophy. It is fear-based and primarily concerned with self-preservation. Leftism is…as St Paul wrote a "worldly philosophy, having a form of godliness [concern for the Weak] but denying the power thereof [Jesus as Lord].
I know that coming to grips with a world that is “red in tooth and claw”, where the Strong can dominate the Weak without a moral authority to stop them, pushes atheists toward Leftism. I know that Christians care for the Weak because of empathy and the Biblical call to do so…but are there really 2 kinds of Leftists?
Can a Christian be Leftist in a theistic worldview?
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s truly possible to to be leftist and Catholic because leftism is big on social equality. It’s a less evil version of Communism (divide up the rich people’s farms and divide it equal among all people no matter how poor.) This may seem nice, but this takes away the social hierarchy and brings about ideas that seem to liberate traditional practices (i.e. women priests, papal authority). Certain powers are given to people and certain people earn their power or riches through the right reason. But we cannot ignore the poor and vulnerable, but again not everyone is equal in gifts and talents.
 
Bballer32 said:
I don’t think it’s truly possible to to be leftist and Catholic because leftism is big on social equality. It’s a less evil version of Communism (divide up the rich people’s farms and divide it equal among all people no matter how poor.) This may seem nice, but this takes away the social hierarchy and brings about ideas that seem to liberate traditional practices (i.e. women priests, papal authority). Certain powers are given to people and certain people earn their power or riches through the right reason. But we cannot ignore the poor and vulnerable, but again not everyone is equal in gifts and talents.
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**Act 2:44 And all they that believed were together and had all things common.
Act 2:45 Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need. **
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Prodigal_Son1:
Matthew 25
14 “For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property; 15 to one he gave five talents,[a] to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them; and he made five talents more. 17 So also, he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
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Prodigal Son

**Act 2:44 And all they that believed were together and had all things common.
Act 2:45 Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need. **

All this was done voluntarily by the haves to help the have-nots during a period of great need among the early Christians. The money of the rich was not seized by the government to be divided among all the poor, Christian and non-Christian, which is the plan of leftist socialism. What is notable about the latter plan is that it never solves the problem of poverty, but rather exacerbates it. Welfarism has become not an emergency system, but a lifestyle often freely chosen by several generations of the same family. Doubtful that this is what the early Christians were advocating in Acts.
 
Pugsly said:
There are Leftists that come from atheism. There are Leftist “Christians” too. My study of Leftism comes to the conclusion that Leftism is a god-free philosophy. It is fear-based and primarily concerned with self-preservation. Leftism is…as St Paul wrote a "worldly philosophy, having a form of godliness [concern for the Weak] but denying the power thereof [Jesus as Lord].
I know that coming to grips with a world that is “red in tooth and claw”, where the Strong can dominate the Weak without a moral authority to stop them, pushes atheists toward Leftism. I know that Christians care for the Weak because of empathy and the Biblical call to do so…but are there really 2 kinds of Leftists?
Can a Christian be Leftist in a theistic worldview?
Click to expand...
First off, Christianity is not a political philosophy. Secondly you seem to see things as if it were binary (right or left) and that you need to be a right winger to be Christian which is absolutely wrong. For instance the Freedom Marches were a leftist phenomenon, was that anti-Christian?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Prodigal Son

**Act 2:44 And all they that believed were together and had all things common.
Act 2:45 Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need. **

All this was done voluntarily by the haves to help the have-nots during a period of great need among the early Christians. The money of the rich was not seized by the government to be divided among all the poor, Christian and non-Christian, which is the plan of leftist socialism. What is notable about the latter plan is that it never solves the problem of poverty, but rather exacerbates it. Welfarism has become not an emergency system, but a lifestyle often freely chosen by several generations of the same family. Doubtful that this is what the early Christians were advocating in Acts.
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I see no evidence that the sharing of the early Christians mentioned in Acts was meant to be temporary, only for time of great need, or until capitalism could take hold.

As a member of a democracy, I voluntarily give my consent that the majority rules where policy and governance is concerned. When a right-leaning group is voted into power, as a member of a democracy, I agree to the rules, I do not consider myself forced to do so. If the rules are unjust or immoral, I work to change them, hopefully with other like-minded citizens within the structure of our democratic system.

Also, remember what happened to Annias and Sapphira!
 
Christo

I see no evidence that the sharing of the early Christians mentioned in Acts was meant to be temporary, only for time of great need, or until capitalism could take hold.

Then you haven’t learned about the stressful conditions surrounding the early Christians who were persecuted as followers of Christ. Banding together and helping each other out is what any small group will do when they know the odds are against them. If Christ preached modern day socialism as the desirable way for society to go, prove it. You can’t. Cradle to grave socialism is the bane of modern civilization. It makes the State into a God before whom all must kneel if they want to get along. But finally it runs out of gas … look at the bills piling up everywhere socialism thrives and say it isn’t so!look at your own state, California, and compare it to my state, Texas. You are drowning in socialist debt and we have an 8 billion dollar surplus.

Californians are moving to Texas. Texans are not moving to California.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Christo

I see no evidence that the sharing of the early Christians mentioned in Acts was meant to be temporary, only for time of great need, or until capitalism could take hold.

Then you haven’t learned about the stressful conditions surrounding the early Christians who were persecuted as followers of Christ. Banding together and helping each other out is what any small group will do when they know the odds are against them. If Christ preached modern day socialism as the desirable way for society to go, prove it. You can’t. Cradle to grave socialism is the bane of modern civilization. It makes the State into a God before whom all must kneel if they want to get along. But finally it runs out of gas … look at the bills piling up everywhere socialism thrives and say it isn’t so!look at your own state, California, and compare it to my state, Texas. You are drowning in socialist debt and we have an 8 billion dollar surplus.

Californians are moving to Texas. Texans are not moving to California.
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God bless your passion and enthusiasm! You stay in Texas, and I will happily remain in California. As I stated before, I am left-leaning, not a total Socialist or Communist or whatever other label. I believe our Faith promotes this. “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.” So says our Lord, and there is no caveat like, “unless they are freeloaders.” Whether I give personally or we all give collectively, it is still a good thing.
 
Christo

Come to Texas. There are Catholics here who love it!
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Prodigal Son

**Act 2:44 And all they that believed were together and had all things common.
Act 2:45 Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need. **

All this was done voluntarily by the haves to help the have-nots during a period of great need among the early Christians. The money of the rich was not seized by the government to be divided among all the poor, Christian and non-Christian, which is the plan of leftist socialism. What is notable about the latter plan is that it never solves the problem of poverty, but rather exacerbates it. Welfarism has become not an emergency system, but a lifestyle often freely chosen by several generations of the same family. Doubtful that this is what the early Christians were advocating in Acts.
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No matter how one rationalizes it, it shows that the early Church practiced what one poster tries to separate. A Catholic can be ‘liberal’, to use the term being slung around, and Catholic.

It also shows that we, Catholics/Christians, can choose to vote in a manner that closest simulates what the early Church practiced, because we are a democracy and can vote in line with the example shown to use through scriptures. Our concern is for those in need, and Christ never qualified those in need, except to say, ‘do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.’ He never asked, or commanded us, to qualify the need others express. We cannot generalize an entire group of people as utilizing a ‘lifestyle’, unless we personally have knowledge for each and every person in that group.

Bottom line, Christ was/is neither ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’, in the political sense we perceive those terms. Either view cannot be demonized by us, who are a part of either side; when both sides have proven to have the same faults within.
 
Prodigal Son
**
We cannot generalize an entire group of people as utilizing a ‘lifestyle’, unless we personally have knowledge for each and every person in that group.**

Nobody is speaking for each and every person in that group. We are speaking for a socialist trend that gives more and more of the national wealth to fund a rapacious demand for entitlements. You are naive if you deny this. Christ commands us to give from the heart, not to have our wealth seized by a rapacious government that does not care how much it takes and how much it squanders. Socialism is fundamentally evil. It exalts the state to become God of all. If you don’t see the current socialism in America seeking to eclipse the moral autonomy of the Catholic Church, you are sadly leftist. The Catholic Church, because of the evil policies of a leftist government, are slowly being driven out of the charity business. Do you have blinders on for that too?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Prodigal Son
**
We cannot generalize an entire group of people as utilizing a ‘lifestyle’, unless we personally have knowledge for each and every person in that group.**

Nobody is speaking for each and every person in that group. We are speaking for a socialist trend that gives more and more of the national wealth to fund a rapacious demand for entitlements. You are naive if you deny this. Christ commands us to give from the heart, not to have our wealth seized by a rapacious government that does not care how much it takes and how much it squanders. Socialism is fundamentally evil. It exalts the state to become God of all. If you don’t see the current socialism in America seeking to eclipse the moral autonomy of the Catholic Church, you are sadly leftist. The Catholic Church, because of the evil policies of a leftist government, are slowly being driven out of the charity business. Do you have blinders on for that too?
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If Christ commanded to give through our hearts, why it different to do so by voting in a way that our taxes are shared to the needy?

The Pope, and Bishops, have called on nations to assist the needy, with private organizations, through social programs.
 
Prodigal Son

If Christ commanded to give through our hearts, why it different to do so by voting in a way that our taxes are shared to the needy?

Indeed, Christ said we should give until it hurts. But it must be voluntary to be virtuous.

If you think all the taxpayers are just fine with how their money is being spent by the government (just because a majority in government were voted a majority of voters) you do not understand how human nature works. We cannot acquiesce in the favorable attitude of the federal government toward abortions and same-sex marriage just because the majority party was voted into office by the majority of the people. Likewise, we should not surrender our taxes to be misused by a socialist government that increasingly relies upon creating and maintaining a dependent class of voters to return them to office. As Bill O’Reilly said, the voters want “stuff,” and it isn’t just the poor who want it; and they will vote increasingly for the socialist party that promises them more and more “stuff.”

**The Pope, and Bishops, have called on nations to assist the needy, with private organizations, through social programs. **

I rather doubt that the Pope and the Bishops have endorsed worldwide rapacious socialism.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Prodigal Son

If Christ commanded to give through our hearts, why it different to do so by voting in a way that our taxes are shared to the needy?

Indeed, Christ said we should give until it hurts. But it must be voluntary to be virtuous.

If you think all the taxpayers are just fine with how their money is being spent by the government (just because a majority in government were voted a majority of voters) you do not understand how human nature works. We cannot acquiesce in the favorable attitude of the federal government toward abortions and same-sex marriage just because the majority party was voted into office by the majority of the people. Likewise, we should not surrender our taxes to be misused by a socialist government that increasingly relies upon creating and maintaining a dependent class of voters to return them to office. As Bill O’Reilly said, the voters want “stuff,” and it isn’t just the poor who want it; and they will vote increasingly for the socialist party that promises them more and more “stuff.”

**The Pope, and Bishops, have called on nations to assist the needy, with private organizations, through social programs. **

I rather doubt that the Pope and the Bishops have endorsed worldwide rapacious socialism.
Click to expand...
We are blessed to live in a democracy, where we can vote our hearts ‘voluntarily’. Our intent is recognizable by Him, whether we vote to share, or vote to keep.

The Pope, and our Bishops, have called on nations to provide social assistance, in addition to what the private charities provide, because of the enormity of the problems. That’s a fact. I have to wonder why you added a spin to what was said?
 
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