Are there any Catholic theologions that fully understand the last book of the bible ?

[jimmy85]

Im gonna write about some info that I read tell me if you agree Walt.

1- If you read the revelations without reading the rest of the bible you wotn be able to udnerstand it.

2- Revelations is divided in 3 main parts:

-the seven churches, from chapter 1 to 3.
-Christ and Israel from 4 to 11.
-The fate of the Church and the world.12 to 22

3-“The Profecy is not for the future” the profecy is to change the present and to avoid the future. For example THe profecy of Jonha.

4- If revelations is separated of the present time that St John lived in , you wont be able to understand it.

5- Revelatiosn is the comfirmation of Leviticus and Deutronomy, Its the end of the alliance of God with the Jews.
Deuteronomio Chapter 5, 1-26 and the consecences of Israel leaving the allaince with God are in Deuteronomio 27, 1—30 y 28, 15-69.

6- In Ezekiel there are plenty of profecys about the revelations John may wrote it thinking it will be a book of liturgy that will be read with Ezekiel’ books.

7- Now If the Message of John was about the future about computers and nuclear bombs. What is the message or interest that John gave to the primitive churchs of Laodicea, Philadelpia etc.
that they were under extreme persecution!.?

That makes me think that the main message of revelations was for those primitie church that were under extreme persecution, were going to win with the victory of Chirst .
Therefore revelation dosent talk about a Apocalyptic future.

At the end of the book it says
20
The one who gives this testimony says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
21
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.

So Jesus didnt came before in all the book of revelation therefore Revelation is about the past and the struggle of the early christians.

On Revelations 17,9-10 says

9

Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also represent seven kings:

10

five have already fallen, one still lives, and the last has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a short while.

The present time is the time in which John lived. (Five have fallen) past , (one still lives) present (and the last has not yet come) future.

Therefore Revelations had a time in history in which all of this happened.

-John was writting about Revelations under the persecution of Neros. It was a struggle betewen the Roman Empire and the Church.
There was a war with the empire of God “the church” and the Empire of the world “the Roman empire”.

The Christians that suffered more this persecution were in Efeso and in all Asia.
John wrote the book with symbology of the time to give a consolation to those people in Asia that were in the main field of the war.

Revelations is a book with a language of Liturgy it surely could be understand by the early chrstian of the first century of the cult Jerosomilitan that were from the first century,but not now for us .

The main thing on the Revelations is the struggle of the followers of the lamb against the followers of Satan.

So the revelations are not exoterism nor something hidden nor an horoscope of whats is going to happen tomorrow.
Its a beautiful book that depect the victory of our Lord and the people that struggled with him on those times.

 

[jimmy85]

The triple 6 is not a big deal though, its not very imporntant.

John was writting about Revelations under the persecution of Neros. It was a struggle betewen the Roman Empire and the Church

Jewish letters equivalent value
Nun N 50
Resh R 200
Waw W 6
Nun N 50
Qoph Q 100
Samek S 60
Resh R 200

total 666

NRWNQSR

The jewish don’t have vowels on their language. One must find out the name without using the vowels.

NeRWN QaSaR Its the fonetic on Hebrew for Nerón Káiser “Neron Cesar”

 

[walt2000]

Take it easy Walt we are all here to learn

I’s just that we Catholics are so quite ,while the other prostitute Church’s are having a field day .they think they have god in their hip pocket.Well they are in for a surprise.The great day is not doom and gloom In my interpretation.It’ll be a day of JOY,

SEAL NO. 7 RE.8/1 SILENCE IN HEAVEN---------------------------------
TRUMPET NO.7 RE.11/15 KINGDOM IS THE LORDS---------------
MAN GIVES GLORY TO GOD RE.11/13------------------------------------
THE GRAPE VINTAGE RE.14/18----------------------------------------------
IN HEAVEN RE.15/1----------------------------------------------------------------
VIAL NO.7 RE.16/17 IT IS DONE----------------------------------------------
THE WHITE HORSE WINNER RE.19/19-----------------------------------

THAT IS THE END OF THE SEVEN THUNDERS------------------------
IT GETS ME MAD TO HEAR THE PRODS .VISION THEY HAVEN’T A CLUE ON THE PROPER INTERPRETATION.
WALT2000 and I am mad, in my thirty five years it is finally getting to me.I am going to have to rest from this for a few days.

 

[walt2000]

I’s just that we Catholics are so quite ,while the other prostitute Church’s are having a field day .they think they have god in their hip pocket.Well they are in for a surprise.The great day is not doom and gloom In my interpretation.It’ll be a day of JOY,

SEAL NO. 7 RE.8/1 SILENCE IN HEAVEN---------------------------------
TRUMPET NO.7 RE.11/15 KINGDOM IS THE LORDS---------------
MAN GIVES GLORY TO GOD RE.11/13------------------------------------
THE GRAPE VINTAGE RE.14/18----------------------------------------------
IN HEAVEN RE.15/1----------------------------------------------------------------
VIAL NO.7 RE.16/17 IT IS DONE----------------------------------------------
THE WHITE HORSE WINNER RE.19/19-----------------------------------

THAT IS THE END OF THE SEVEN THUNDERS------------------------
IT GETS ME MAD TO HEAR THE PRODS .VISION THEY HAVEN’T A CLUE ON THE PROPER INTERPRETATION.
WALT2000 and I am mad, in my thirty five years it is finally getting to me.I am going to have to rest from this for a few days.

IT IS HARD TO WRITE A BOOK THROUGH A KEYHOLE

 

[jimmy85]

IT IS HARD TO WRITE A BOOK THROUGH A KEYHOLE

Walt stop reading revelations and read instead some books of the saints there are plenty of them , and they are really englightening.
I advice you the diary of St Faustina, the treaty of the true devotion to Mary of St luis Montfort. History of a Soul of st Therese of Liseux, The flowers of Saint francis. the church fathers
newadvent.org/fathers/
read the papal documents , read the documents of the doctors of the church etc.
there are alot of books to read. dont spend another 35 years with revelations.

 

[pacislander4lif]

Dr. Robert Sungenis, President of Catholic Apologetics International (CAI) has a CD on the Apocalypse titled “A Primer on the Apocalypse”… I am running his multi-media department in the future, and if you order the talk from him for a donation of 3-4 dollars, I will email the links to download the talk. Also, he was just here in Southern California at a seminar I set up with the KoC, announcing that his Study Bible on the Apocalypse is being published as we speak. If you wish to order that 600 page work, let me know, or contact Sungenis at cairomeo@aol.com.
God Bless,
Laurence

 

[freesoulhope]

Do you believe that the world was created ten thousand years ago like robert?

 

[freesoulhope]

Dr. Robert Sungenis, President of Catholic Apologetics International (CAI) has a CD on the Apocalypse titled “A Primer on the Apocalypse”… I am running his multi-media department in the future, and if you order the talk from him for a donation of 3-4 dollars, I will email the links to download the talk. Also, he was just here in Southern California at a seminar I set up with the KoC, announcing that his Study Bible on the Apocalypse is being published as we speak. If you wish to order that 600 page work, let me know, or contact Sungenis at cairomeo@aol.com.
God Bless,
Laurence

Do you believe the world was created ten thousand years ago like robert?

 

[pacislander4lif]

Do you believe the world was created ten thousand years ago like robert?

Well, to be honest with you, I have not studied throroughly the evidence for the “young Earth”. So, I cannot say. When I was an atheist, and came back to the faith, and eventually to the Catholic faith, I did so with the proviso that we could reconcile evolution with God… and I embraced intelligent design. I have since abandoned that position, not for any other reason than, I see no reason to have to subject the Catholic faith to scientific standards, especially with theories which have not been proven, in my opinion. I intend to study the materials of the Kolbe Center for the study of Creation in the summer…
-Laurence

PS- Sungenis also sells a DVD lecture on Creation.

 

[walt2000]

Do you believe that the world was created ten thousand years ago like robert?

To be Conservative— ,and that is a low number,How about 15 billion,Years.I m for the intelligent design theory,and God is the intelligent designer.and he is the intelligence, Christ is it 's ruler,a day to the lord is as a thousand years ,and a thousand years is as a day.Time is irrelevant.Walt2000 there was no time before god …
God made everything out of nothing ,and nothing was not made but by God.God is still perfecting us,and will keep on perfecting us.

 

[pacislander4lif]

To be Conservative— ,and that is a low number,How about 15 billion,Years.I m for the intelligent design theory,and God is the intelligent designer.and he is the intelligence, Christ is it 's ruler,a day to the lord is as a thousand years ,and a thousand years is as a day.Time is irrelevant.Walt2000 there was no time before god …
God made everything out of nothing ,and nothing was not made but by God.God is still perfecting us,and will keep on perfecting us.

if time is irrelevant then there’s no sense in looking down upon the young-earth Catholics…
-L

 

[walt2000]

if time is irrelevant then there’s no sense in looking down upon the young-earth Catholics…
-L

Your wright look up to them.

 

[walt2000]

Your wright look up to them.

God clapped his hands and every atom was made, that was to be made,and the universe is still making ,and remaking it self. the universe is expanding and expanding it self. with out end amen.
God is alpha and omega.and infinity.

 

[walt2000]

revelation= 72
3 cubed=27
6,6,6 =trinity of man
7,7,7 =trinity of Christ
8,8,8 =trinity of god
Walt2000
27 = prophecy
0 = space
72 = revelation
2 = unity
7 =christ
27=unity with christ = revelation72

 

[walt2000]

----------------------------THINGS THU SEEN--------------------------------------
----------------------------THINGS WHICH ARE------------------------------------
----------------------------SEVEN THUNDERS-------------------------------------
1 =seals …thunder 1
2 =trumpets…thunder 2
3 =trinity…thunder 3
4 =earth…thunder 4
5 =word…thunder 5
6 =man…thunder 6
7 =christ…thunder 7​

---------------------THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER-------------
--------------------------------Re.10 ANY BIBLE------------------------------------

Seven thunders of re.10 the little scroll eat, sweet to the mouth ,sourer to the stomach.walt2000

 

[jimmy85]

I think the problem with the creation is that many cahtolics ar influenciated with the protestants way of readign everything (Literaly).
The vatican has stated that you can belive twofold that Adam n Eve did existed or that they did not.
I think everybody knows that Adam in hebrew means mankind, and Eve bearer of life.
So Genesis is not a scientific book its a spitirual book it say how God have us the spirit by blowing to us dosent matter if we were dirt or apes, we are spiritual beings and we have consience and free will to choose the good or the bad.

I read the explanantion about the creation of the Pope Ratzinger when he was a cardinal in his explanation he said that the reason for the 6 days creation scenario was to say two things:

1. God is the creator of the universe
2. He rested on the seven day… that means thats the day he must be workship, “the day of the Lord”
   thats the alliance with men and God since the beginning, and a remainder that we need him to thrive.
   and thats the reason of the 6 days creation scenario.

On that bible everythigg has a deep meaning and it must NOT be taken LITERALY as most of protestans do. Thats the importance of reading the sacret scripture under the church.

 

[walt2000]

I think the problem with the creation is that many cahtolics ar influenciated with the protestants way of readign everything (Literaly).
The vatican has stated that you can belive twofold that Adam n Eve did existed or that they did not.
I think everybody knows that Adam in hebrew means mankind, and Eve bearer of life.
So Genesis is not a scientific book its a spitirual book it say how God have us the spirit by blowing to us dosent matter if we were dirt or apes, we are spiritual beings and we have consience and free will to choose the good or the bad.

I read the explanantion about the creation of the Pope Ratzinger when he was a cardinal in his explanation he said that the reason for the 6 days creation scenario was to say two things:

1. God is the creator of the universe
2. He rested on the seven day… that means thats the day he must be workship, “the day of the Lord”
   thats the alliance with men and God since the beginning, and a remainder that we need him to thrive.
   and thats the reason of the 6 days creation scenario.

On that bible everythigg has a deep meaning and it must NOT be taken LITERALY as most of protestans do. Thats the importance of reading the sacret scripture under the church.

do you want to drop this thread and go to Genesis for a while

 

[jimmy85]

Plenty of chatolics are divided about the book of revelations they have diferent point of view even among the bibles schools.

I have reserached and I think Revelations was like the other epistles they were written to the past “not for the future”, like the letter of paul to the Corinths, it was aimed at a especific situation that happened 1900 years ago , Revelatiosn is not the exeptio. however this letters can be used today because theya re the word of God.
The opinion of the schools of interpratation of revelations are divided even among catholics. but the only thing that the Holy see has stated about it is that Revelation is not a creepy book like the some fundamentalists protestants claim it to be.

Several of the Church Fathers share the opinion that revelations were like the epistles or like the letters of Paul (and not something exotoric of creepy).

Some of them that shared this opinion were St Augustin, Papias, St Ireneaus , St Justin ; St Eusebio of Cesarea.
“read his book about the history” of the church at the end he make a mention about the book of revelations as historic facts.

 

[jimmy85]

W can discuss both I need to practice my english

 

[pacislander4lif]

I think the problem with the creation is that many cahtolics ar influenciated with the protestants way of readign everything (Literaly).
The vatican has stated that you can belive twofold that Adam n Eve did existed or that they did not.
I think everybody knows that Adam in hebrew means mankind, and Eve bearer of life.
So Genesis is not a scientific book its a spitirual book it say how God have us the spirit by blowing to us dosent matter if we were dirt or apes, we are spiritual beings and we have consience and free will to choose the good or the bad.

I read the explanantion about the creation of the Pope Ratzinger when he was a cardinal in his explanation he said that the reason for the 6 days creation scenario was to say two things:

1. God is the creator of the universe
2. He rested on the seven day… that means thats the day he must be workship, “the day of the Lord”
   thats the alliance with men and God since the beginning, and a remainder that we need him to thrive.
   and thats the reason of the 6 days creation scenario.

On that bible everythigg has a deep meaning and it must NOT be taken LITERALY as most of protestans do. Thats the importance of reading the sacret scripture under the church.

To my first highlight: This is incorrect, whether we believe in theistic evolution or creationism, the absolute thing we cannot dispense with is that Adam and Eve were real people and they did sin!

To the second highlight, I think you used the wrong terminology, because the new Catechism itself says that there is a literal sense of the Bible. Sure it doesnt mean the same as the way you use it, but it would be wrong to think that there is nothing literal about the Bible. Heck, one of our most important literal passages we believe in is John 6. Do you believe in the Eucharist, or has science destroyed that possibility too?
-Laurence