Are there any human souls in hell?

[Crusader13]

Fine, it’s your opinion and some theologians’ opinion. It’s still not official Church teaching, as the Church does not teach that any specific person is definitely in Hell.

Muting now as we’ve had this Judas discussion on many past threads, there’s no point in having it again in my opinion.

Hahaha. Man I didn’t even have to be a prophet to see that coming. You do that A LOT.

Look I already said the Church hasn’t dogmatically taught that Judas is in hell, yet you brought up that point again. I said the scriptural evidence would favor the interpretation that he’s in hell.

And the argument that the Church doesn’t teach (fill in the blank) is misleading at best. The Church allows for various interpretations and beliefs, so long as they don’t contradict any portion of what the Church has already decreed on a matter.

So again my opinion is based on Scripture and what some in the Church have taught and continue to teach.

 

[Genesis315]

Antecedently it was possible for all to be saved–as this is God’s antecendent desire (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). However, God consequently wills some to be damned (cf. Matt 25:41). In His foreknowledge, Christ told us Hell will not be empty saying, “many are called, but few are chosen” (cf. Matt 22:14) and that many enter the gate that leads to destruction (cf. Matt 7:13).

That being said, only God can say which particular souls are lost, and, except for possibly in the case of Judas (cf. John 17:12), He has not done so. He will at the Final Judgment.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I don’t get it. Von Balthasar, catholic priest and prominent theologian, claimed that we can have a reasonable hope that no souls are in hell. Bishop Barron publicly stated that he thought von Balthazar was right.

The Catechism clearly states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell for eternity.(ccc1035). There is no chance for repentance after death.

In order to avoid contradiction between von Balthazar and Church teaching, no one can die in a state of mortal sin - right? Yet, then we contradict more teaching.

Help!

 

[MtnDwellar]

Then, I suppose, it’s no surprise that people are confused.

 

[Dan_Defender]

‘And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.’ - Mark 9:42-43
Hell is certainly not empty. The bar is not set that high.

 

[Stephen_says]

But the Catechism also states

ccc1861 However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

So there is room for HOPE. But I think you have to hope for others, but not yourself. Strive to enter the narrow gate, and hope that everyone else joins you!

 

[Mrchatsworth]

If there aren’t any human souls in hell the Jesus wasted a lot of preaching in the Bible about hell…

 

[otjm]

So wouldn’t his greatest victory be to not give the most evil thing (satan) a single soul?

God’s greatest victory would be being true to himself; he gave us free will, and he loves us so much he will honor that free will.

God doesn’t send anyone to hell; people choose it freely. It is not “well, I made a mistake”. Nope. A mistake is wearing a polka dot time with a striped shirt.

A sin is not a mistake; it is a voluntary choice to accept the evil and reject the good.
God is not “giving” Satan a single soul; these souls are choosing to reject God and “follow” Satan.

 

[otjm]

That being said, only God can say which particular souls are lost, and, except for possibly in the case of Judas (cf. John 17:12), He has not done so. He will at the Final Judgment

Certainly Christ’s comment about Judas, that it would be better if he had never been born, could be read as saying Judas was going/went to Hell. However, the Church has never made any statement on the matter.

 

[MtnDwellar]

The questionable part is whether it is “reasonable” to hope that no souls are in hell.

 

[po18guy]

Fr. John Hardon, S.J.† was known as the greatest dogmatic theologian of the 20th century. He offered:

“if no one is in hell by this date, what must one do to get there?”

 

[RaisedCatholic]

When a person ends up in Hell (the lake of fire), Satan will be going through his own eternal torture. He won’t be torturing anyone else, who will be going through their own personal agony. When an unbeliever ends up in Hades, the torturing they experience is knowing they are eternally separated from God. There is no second chance. Their rejection of Christ resulting in eternal torment is completely just & fair. So, it’s not like Satan “gets souls” in Hell. God is the One Who will be torturing these wicked souls. BTW, we all deserve Hell, not Heaven. But by God’s grace & mercy, based on His eternal sovereign will, God has predestined certain individuals - but not because of anything particular special about them. God’s victory is Christ’s victory over sin & death when He died on the cross for His elect. But even though salvation is based on God’s eternal sovereign will, mankind is still responsible for accepting or rejecting Him.

 

[drifter106]

Since we are talking about numbers…Saint Faustina was taken to hell with her guardian angel. She saw many things AND learned many things. One of the statements she made and put in her diary was…No.1732, there are more people in hell because they chose to believe that hell does not exist.

Another fact that comes to mind in regards to numbers. The Blessed Catherine Emmerich the German Nun…in her visions that she had (from childhood and thoughout her life) was: (paraphrasing) when the number of human souls that die and are in heaven reaches the number of fallen angels…we, mankind, will have reached the end of the world.

 

[StudentMI]

I don’t think we need to go calling some theologians and clergy heterodox just because one doesn’t agree with them. Lest we forget, St John Paul II and Pope Benedict held Balthasar in the highest regard.

Two articles for the OP, one about Balthasar and one about the population of hell.

The Population of Hell | Avery Cardinal Dulles

Sometimes the complaint is heard that no one preaches about hell any longer. The subject of hell, . . . .

www.firstthings.com

Balthasar, Hell, and Heresy: An Exchange | Alyssa Lyra Pitstick

Alyssa Lyra Pitstick Hans Urs von Balthasar once keenly observed what makes someone an ecclesial . . . .

www.firstthings.com

Happy reading.

 

[StudentMI]

I don’t think you can just dismiss it as nouvelle theologie. After all that would dismiss the work of future Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Here’s one example where the Church seems to have adjusted it’s view.

The Magisterium and the Human Knowledge of Christ – Catholic World Report

 

[StudentMI]

Whoa slow down. I haven’t said at all what I believe, and your charges of relativism are off base. You’re also ignoring what I said about St John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Do you consider them worth reading? Have you read Spe Salvi by the latter?

 

[StudentMI]

It matters because if you just consider them as nouvelle theologie and can wave them away I frankly find that an odd position for a Catholic. Whether one reads them or not is up to the individual. But when one wants to condemn their theological works as heterodox? That’s something to talk about.

So did you read Spe Salvi or not? It’s an Encyclical written by a Holy Father.

 

[StudentMI]

With death, our life-choice becomes definitive—our life stands before the judge. Our choice, which in the course of an entire life takes on a certain shape, can have a variety of forms. There can be people who have totally destroyed their desire for truth and readiness to love, people for whom everything has become a lie, people who have lived for hatred and have suppressed all love within themselves. This is a terrifying thought, but alarming profiles of this type can be seen in certain figures of our own history. In such people all would be beyond remedy and the destruction of good would be irrevocable: this is what we mean by the word Hell [37]. On the other hand there can be people who are utterly pure, completely permeated by God, and thus fully open to their neighbours—people for whom communion with God even now gives direction to their entire being and whose journey towards God only brings to fulfilment what they already are[38].
Yet we know from experience that neither case is normal in human life. For the great majority of people—we may suppose—there remains in the depths of their being an ultimate interior openness to truth, to love, to God. In the concrete choices of life, however, it is covered over by ever new compromises with evil—much filth covers purity, but the thirst for purity remains and it still constantly re-emerges from all that is base and remains present in the soul. What happens to such individuals when they appear before the Judge? Will all the impurity they have amassed through life suddenly cease to matter? What else might occur? Saint Paul, in his First Letter to the Corinthians , gives us an idea of the differing impact of God’s judgement according to each person’s particular circumstances… In this text, it is in any case evident that our salvation can take different forms, that some of what is built may be burned down, that in order to be saved we personally have to pass through “fire” so as to become fully open to receiving God and able to take our place at the table of the eternal marriage-feast.

http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...uments/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi.html

 

[StudentMI]

“Yet we know from experience that neither case is normal in human life. For the great majority of people—we may suppose—there remains in the depths of their being an ultimate interior openness to truth, to love, to God.”

 

[StudentMI]

From the Catechism,

“God has bound himself to the sacraments, but God is not himself bound by the sacraments.”