A
Ammi
Guest
What do the Saints and doctors of the Church say and teach about invalid marriages and Church decrees of nulity?
Last edited:
- Status
F
Fauken
Guest
I can’t imagine there are a ton given that they’d be from Saints who were canonists. Why?
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
A
Ammi
Guest
Thanks. I knew about this address, but only read excerpts. Nice to have the whole thing.
A
acanonlawyer
Guest
Yes, other than recent Popes (and they’re basically all canonized, right?), there isn’t much that I know of. There are several canonist-saints but I can’t think of any who lived in the past 100 or 200 years years (and weren’t Popes…I believe Paul VI had a doctorate in canon law, for example. Could be wrong about that.)
So, in addition to the fact that what these old saints might have said might not be in English, there is also the fact that “annulments” wasn’t really a hot topic in those days. So, there wasn’t much need to say a whole lot.
One exception is St. Alphonsus Liguori. He is referenced from time to time in canonical commentary (for instance, in the topic of error in marital consent).
Dan
So, in addition to the fact that what these old saints might have said might not be in English, there is also the fact that “annulments” wasn’t really a hot topic in those days. So, there wasn’t much need to say a whole lot.
One exception is St. Alphonsus Liguori. He is referenced from time to time in canonical commentary (for instance, in the topic of error in marital consent).
Dan
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
What about St Thomas More?
A
acanonlawyer
Guest
I thought about him but I can’t recall him writing anything about it. Once again, I could be wrong.
Dan
Dan
A
Ammi
Guest
Very interesting.
A
Ammi
Guest
That’s too bad.
A
Ammi
Guest
I did find a letter from St Jerome, mentioning an invalid marriage case, and then contrasting it with a valid marriage, to a husband with many sins.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001055.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001055.htm
P
Pitcairn17
Guest
Are you thinking that there are saints who said that the Church shouldn’t grant annulments? Certainly up until the past several decades, Decrees of Nullity were few and far between — which is a separate topic.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
In times past and in various cultures, divorce was simply “not done”, a divorced person became a pariah in the community. People in unhappy marriages would basically live separate lives under the same roof, or even live apart.
The tribunal process was not what it is today.
The tribunal process was not what it is today.
A
Ammi
Guest
Please provide any information or references to historical application of recognizing invalid marriages.
I’m not interested in debating, but learning.
Obviously decrees of invalid marriage between two Christians was rare, for many, many centuries. So what did the Saints and doctors say about invalid ones. What was their criteria. What determined an invalid marriage for all those centuries?
I’m not interested in debating, but learning.
Obviously decrees of invalid marriage between two Christians was rare, for many, many centuries. So what did the Saints and doctors say about invalid ones. What was their criteria. What determined an invalid marriage for all those centuries?
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
I’m not asking about how divorced people were treated in various times and cultures.
Im asking what we can learn about the history of invalid marriage recognized by the Saints and doctors of the Church. Not culture and secular societies.
Such as the letter from St. Jerome I posted. But more detail.
Im asking what we can learn about the history of invalid marriage recognized by the Saints and doctors of the Church. Not culture and secular societies.
Such as the letter from St. Jerome I posted. But more detail.
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
Ok, i read this. I like it, since it strongly holds and promotes the importance of preserving the indissolubility of marriage.
Yet, it says extremely little about anything which interprets what constitutes nullity.
I actually thought it was something different. Where he talked about grounds of psychological impediments.
Yet, it says extremely little about anything which interprets what constitutes nullity.
I actually thought it was something different. Where he talked about grounds of psychological impediments.
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
You recall a Saint explaining this?
I am probably just echoing what others have said here, but unless it were a rare writing, this isn’t something that anyone would have addressed “back in the day”. It just wasn’t done. Declarations of nullity were very rare, and people didn’t think in terms of subjective factors that could invalidate marriage, psychological factors, and so on — it was just black and white, if you stood up in a church and got married, you were married, no further discussion.
We have a world nowadays where the whole concept of marriage has been put through the shredder, and the Church bends over backwards to help her faithful who have gotten caught up in the modern mess, like a parent who has to try to get their child out of a predicament they’ve gotten themselves into. I myself am a sad example of this (though no annulment, it may happen one day or it may not).
We have a world nowadays where the whole concept of marriage has been put through the shredder, and the Church bends over backwards to help her faithful who have gotten caught up in the modern mess, like a parent who has to try to get their child out of a predicament they’ve gotten themselves into. I myself am a sad example of this (though no annulment, it may happen one day or it may not).
A
Ammi
Guest
“Back in the day” meaning… ever?
Where is one Saint who describes what is happening in today’s tribunals. Just one, in 2000 years.
Where is one Saint who describes what is happening in today’s tribunals. Just one, in 2000 years.
A
Ammi
Guest
Here is one…
In 1987, Pope St. John Paul II told the Roman Rota that actual incapacity in giving consent invalidates a marriage, but the mere difficulty in giving consent and in living the vows does not. The Holy Father affirmed, “Only the most severe forms of psychopathology impair substantially the freedom of the individual.”
On January 29, 1993, in an address again to the Roman Rota, Pope John Paul II spoke about “mental reservations” that many people who apply for decrees of nullity claim to have had on their wedding day, arguing that they invalidate their marriage because they really didn’t mean what they said. Of this the Holy Father responded, "If there is a ‘mental reserve’ at the moment the vows are pronounced, that must be thoroughly proven."
In 1987, Pope St. John Paul II told the Roman Rota that actual incapacity in giving consent invalidates a marriage, but the mere difficulty in giving consent and in living the vows does not. The Holy Father affirmed, “Only the most severe forms of psychopathology impair substantially the freedom of the individual.”
On January 29, 1993, in an address again to the Roman Rota, Pope John Paul II spoke about “mental reservations” that many people who apply for decrees of nullity claim to have had on their wedding day, arguing that they invalidate their marriage because they really didn’t mean what they said. Of this the Holy Father responded, "If there is a ‘mental reserve’ at the moment the vows are pronounced, that must be thoroughly proven."
Last edited:
- Status