Are there ANY VALID reason a Catholic would leave the CC?

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Given the sad fact that sooooo many folks are choosing to leave the CC; I’m very curious as to why this is? And are there reasons actually of merit and are they justifed?

God Bless,
Pat
 
Some are swayed by protestants and their ‘sola scriptura’. Others never truly were a part of it, and only played along until their parents had no more control over their lives (when they became adults). Others just lose faith, and reasons for that are innumerable.
 
I’m not leaving the Church, but personally, I get frustrated with the “because I said so” attitude of the Church. I feel like they don’t acknowledge how difficult and frustrating it is to follow or believe in some very difficult teachings, such as the HUGE temptation to use contraception when you already have more kids than you can afford, or the idea that even though the Church doesn’t come out and say it, according to her own teachings, most people (and yes, even our family members) are going to hell.

The Church gives bloviated reasons for all of this that the average Catholic can’t even understand, but for the most part they treat us like snot-nosed teenagers.

More often, rather than being pointed to endless encyclicals, I would just like to hear, “Hey, we KNOW this is hard. We KNOW that by choosing to be Catholic, you have entrusted the Church with the care of your soul and salvation, and we just want you to know that your obedience and hard work doesn’t go unnoticed or unappreciated by the Church or by God. We love you and want the best for you and Christ entrusted us with this awesome responsibility and we will NOT let you down.”

I guess I want to feel like the Church has some affection for us Catholics, instead of just expecting our total obedience like some sort of monarch. With JP2, I actually did feel that love and affection and joy much of the time.
 
Thoughtfulone said:
I’m not leaving the Church, but personally, I get frustrated with the “because I said so” attitude of the Church. I feel like they don’t acknowledge how difficult and frustrating it is to follow or believe in some very difficult teachings, such as the HUGE temptation to use contraception when you already have more kids than you can afford, or the idea that even though the Church doesn’t come out and say it, according to her own teachings, most people (and yes, even our family members) are going to hell.

The Church gives bloviated reasons for all of this that the average Catholic can’t even understand, but for the most part they treat us like snot-nosed teenagers.

More often, rather than being pointed to endless encyclicals, I would just like to hear, “Hey, we KNOW this is hard. We KNOW that by choosing to be Catholic, you have entrusted the Church with the care of your soul and salvation, and we just want you to know that your obedience and hard work doesn’t go unnoticed or unappreciated by the Church or by God. We love you and want the best for you and Christ entrusted us with this awesome responsibility and we will NOT let you down.”

I guess I want to feel like the Church has some affection for us Catholics, instead of just expecting our total obedience like some sort of monarch. With JP2, I actually did feel that love and affection and joy much of the time.
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You wouldn’t be so frustrated if you didn’t create a strawman of the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ, who is her head. There is no “valid” reason for leaving or disobeying. There is only unreasonable emotion or pride that leads to either.
 
davidv said:
You wouldn’t be so frustrated if you didn’t create a strawman of the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ, who is her head. There is no “valid” reason for leaving or disobeying. There is only unreasonable emotion or pride that leads to either.
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Is it pride to want to feel loved and understood by my Church, whom I love? O.K…
 
I would certainly say that it is logically valid (if not morally valid) to leave any institution whose key precepts you find at central variance with convictions of yours that are so towering that they interfere with your commitment to that institutution.

Thus, if someone does not believe in a representative democracy, he or she has no business being a member of a governmental body that reflects that representation. You are at risk of not serving your constituents adequately, at the very least.

If one is so convinced that female ordination is essential and divinely willed, and/or that homosexual behavior is morally appropriate (even if one is not acting out oneself, but certainly if one is), I don’t know how he or she can feel comfortable remaining in a church that so permanently opposes both. If one feels tentative about such core aspects, that’s one thing. (Lots of Catholics have felt tentative about various major and minor teachings, yet remained in the church with the hope & intent to come to peacable terms with those teachings.) But the adamant conviction that “I’m right; the Church is wrong” is a conviction that leads to one of two places: (1) open opposition, with all the accompanying frustration, unhappiness, argumentation; or (2) silence with hypocrisy (i.e., double life).

The same holds true for the conditions of the sacramental life. If you are attached to an opposing set of regulations (your own) for participation in the sacraments, the reality is that you will not benefit from the sanctifying graces of them. No one can prevent you from going through the motions, but you will be fooling yourself. Again, a situation that invites internal discord.

I have friends and acquaintances who remain believers in Christianity and who have left for other faith traditions (such as Episcopalianism), because of disagreements with Rome, and others who have remained token Catholics – not practicing but occasionally attending Mass without receiving.
 
davidv said:
If you don’t feel the love of God available through the Church, I don’t believe the problem is with the Church.
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Oh, I feel the love of GOD, but I wager I am not alone in wishing that the Church would treat her children with more love and compassion. The Church is our mother for a reason and I would just like to see a more human maternal side to her, that’s all, as if she wants the best for me and wants me to be happy. I know this is true, I just think the Church could do a better job of expressing that to Catholics and to the world.
 
PJM said:
Given the sad fact that sooooo many folks are choosing to leave the CC; I’m very curious as to why this is? And are there reasons actually of merit and are they justifed?
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The need to have divorce, contraception, abortion, homosexual sex are the major reasons amongst ex-Catholics I know.

Then the next thing you know Mary and reconciliation are their whipping boys.
 
I do not think there are any valid reasons for leaving the Catholic faith. Some people, however, never knew the faith that they are leaving. If they have never been taught what we believe, our history, our doctrines, how can we be surprised when they leave? Having a true love for our Lord, even if outside of the Catholic Church, is better than going through meaningless motions. If they learn who Jesus is, and learn to love him, learn to listen to him but somewhere other than our Church, we can pray that He will lead them home, but we cannot say that they have not made progress. Now I will duck before I get beaten…
 
Thoughtfulone said:
Oh, I feel the love of GOD, but I wager I am not alone in wishing that the Church would treat her children with more love and compassion. The Church is our mother for a reason and I would just like to see a more human maternal side to her, that’s all, as if she wants the best for me and wants me to be happy. I know this is true, I just think the Church could do a better job of expressing that to Catholics and to the world.
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Since all human members of the Church alive today are sinners, no one, including you nor I can love others perfectly. Christ said that we must forgive, lest He not forgive us. Those that do not love perfectly, do so because they don’t obey Church teachings. Whatever wrongs you have encountered are not because of the Church, but are despite the Church.
 
Thoughtfulone said:
Oh, I feel the love of GOD, but I wager I am not alone in wishing that the Church would treat her children with more love and compassion. The Church is our mother for a reason and I would just like to see a more human maternal side to her, that’s all, as if she wants the best for me and wants me to be happy. I know this is true, I just think the Church could do a better job of expressing that to Catholics and to the world.
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How is The Church not treating her children with more love and compassion?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
How is The Church not treating her children with more love and compassion?
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Well, I like to use a parent-teen relationship as an analogy, since the Church is our mother after all.

Let’s say I want to go to a party. My Mom says “no”. I ask why. She goes into some long explanation citing dry, hour-long unrelatable statistics about drinking and driving among teens and the dangers of such things. I tell her she’s ruining my life and all my friends are going and I’m going to be a social pariah if I don’t go and why can’t I go just this once? She rolls her eyes and says I’m being dramatic and gives me the old “Because I said so”. I sneak out later that night and do what I want anyway.

This is how the Church handles things all too often. I want to use contraception, the Church says “no”, I ask why. I get a huge list of encyclicals and quotes and hundreds of pages of dry, dusty, 2000-year-old material. When I say, “But everyone else does it and I can’t afford any more kids and the doctor says if I have another c-section I might die…why can’t I use it now?”, and I get the basic “Because we said so.” Now, many people here shut down and turn away from the Church and do what they want.

Now let’s say that when my Mom (or the Church) says “no” and I ask “Why?”, I’m told, "Because I love you! I know that this is very difficult for you to understand right now because you think I’m just being dictatorial and that I don’t want you to have any fun, but trust me, this is what is best for you. You might have fun tonight, but it’s my job to worry about much more than how much fun you are having tonight! I want you to be happy forever, and I will do whatever it takes to make sure that you stay on the right path that will get you there. You are the whole reason I am here, to guide you and to love you and to be the one who looks out for your well-being. You are the most important thing in the world to me and even though you might not like it, this is what is best and you just have to trust me. Oh, and here’s a bunch of statistics and pages of materials to back up my reasons for knowing that this is the right thing for you 🙂 " I might be annoyed, I might not get it, but I will go up to my room and think about it and I will be obedient.

This is the kind of loving, personal attitude I would like to see more often from the Church/priests/bishops/Pope/Magisterium and I think it would go a long way toward keeping us Catholics in the pews.
 
Thoughtfulone said:
Well, I like to use a parent-teen relationship as an analogy, since the Church is our mother after all.

Let’s say I want to go to a party. My Mom says “no”. I ask why. She goes into some long explanation citing dry, hour-long unrelatable statistics about drinking and driving among teens and the dangers of such things. I tell her she’s ruining my life and all my friends are going and I’m going to be a social pariah if I don’t go and why can’t I go just this once? She rolls her eyes and says I’m being dramatic and gives me the old “Because I said so”. I sneak out later that night and do what I want anyway.

This is how the Church handles things all too often. I want to use contraception, the Church says “no”, I ask why. I get a huge list of encyclicals and quotes and hundreds of pages of dry, dusty, 2000-year-old material. When I say, “But everyone else does it and I can’t afford any more kids and the doctor says if I have another c-section I might die…why can’t I use it now?”, and I get the basic “Because we said so.” Now, many people here shut down and turn away from the Church and do what they want.

Now let’s say that when my Mom (or the Church) says “no” and I ask “Why?”, I’m told, “Because I love you! I know that this is very difficult for you to understand right now because you think I’m just being dictatorial and that I don’t want you to have any fun, but trust me, this is what is best for you. You might have fun tonight, but it’s my job to worry about much more than how much fun you are having tonight! I want you to be happy forever, and I will do whatever it takes to make sure that you stay on the right path that will get you there. You are the whole reason I am here, to guide you and to love you and to be the one who looks out for your well-being. You are the most important thing in the world to me and even though you might not like it, this is what is best and you just have to trust me.” I might be annoyed, I might not get it, but I will go up to my room and think about it and I will be obedient.

This is the kind of loving, personal attitude I would like to see more often from the Church/priests/bishops/Pope/Magisterium and I think it would go a long way toward keeping us Catholics in the pews.
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Some Catholics, like many teens, will accept neither answer. They just want things their way, no matter what.

One of the reasons you may not see the second kind on answer on this forum is the nature of the questions asked and the particular kind of apologetics that has developed here. Another reason is that many do not accept that putting up boundaries is a loving thing to do.
 
davidv said:
Some Catholics, like many teens, will accept neither answer. They just want things their way, no matter what.

One of the reasons you may not see the second kind on answer on this forum is the nature of the questions asked and the particular kind of apologetics that has developed here. Another reason is that many do not accept that putting up boundaries is a loving thing to do.
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I’m not really referring to the people here, although they definitely tend to throw up lots of encyclicals and facts when someone has a question…that or they just tell you “Because the Church says so”, but that is the way of apologetics, unfortunately. I guess I would like the Church leaders to address the everyday Catholic more often, to acknowledge that we make many sacrifices to be faithful, acknowledge our fears and doubts, make us feel like intimate members of a family as opposed to one of a billion Catholics who just needs to obey without question. PJP2 had a gift for personalizing Catholicism fairly often. I wish there were more like him.
 
Thoughtfulone said:
I’m not really referring to the people here, although they definitely tend to throw up lots of encyclicals and facts when someone has a question…that or they just tell you “Because the Church says so”, but that is the way of apologetics, unfortunately. I guess I would like the Church leaders to address the everyday Catholic more often, to acknowledge that we make many sacrifices to be faithful, acknowledge our fears and doubts, make us feel like intimate members of a family as opposed to one of a billion Catholics who just needs to obey without question. PJP2 had a gift for personalizing Catholicism fairly often.** I wish there were more like him**.
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There are many more. My current pastor is one of them. I am truely sorry you haven’t encountered more of them.
 
I’m the mother of three, ages 29, 27, and 25.

I know first hand that most parents do indeed say, "I love you, this is why even though when you think I’m being too harsh I’m really loving you, it would be easy to say yes and get you feeling all happy because you get what you want. . .but what you ‘want’ is going to wind up hurting you dreadfully. Rather than let you hurt yourself, I’d rather hurt myself by hearing you ‘hate on me’. And here are not just ‘because I say so’ reasons but facts and testamonies from people who experienced these things first-hand and know ALL the facts."

What do the kids hear?? 'blah blah blah blah (no you can’t) blah blah (SAYS she loves me but sure doesn’t show it) blah blah blah (can’t trust grownups) blah blah (they don’t know anything) blah blah (just shut up you stupid evil hypocrites).

At first, they will first rant and rave about how ‘mean’ you were and how rigid and hateful and use this as an excuse to do the wrong thing because obviously YOU are the one who is wrong and what they do is therefore ‘right.’
Then they will blame you for not being ‘strong enough’ to stop them from doing wrong. You didn’t make it ‘clear enough.’ You didn’t talk long enough. So their wrongdoing was your fault --not because you didn’t tell them, but because you didn’t work hard enough for them to REALIZE that you were ‘right’.
Then. . .usually in the mid 20s. . .they start to allow as how maybe you DID make it clear but they weren’t quite able to understand because somebody ELSE (older sibling, trusted peer, celebrity of the month) had ‘forced’ them to disregard you by somehow misrepresenting you. So now it is the fault of that OTHER person.

FINALLY they take on their responsibility. “Yes Mom, back when you told me X, was wrong and why, and I did X anyway, it wasn’t because of YOU, or because of my best friend, it was because I didn’t want to listen and I made a bad decision. I’m sorry.”

Now I’m not saying that there are not certain people (priests, religious, even people on Catholic forums) who are pretty much into thundering “Don’t do this” without much (if any) “because I love you”. There are. But they’re the exception, not the rule.

But there are also a lot of “la la la I’m not listening” people (NOT that I am accusing anybody personally!) who make bad decisions and then want to blame it, not on themselves, but on the ‘lack’ of somebody else. . .mom or “The Church”. . .and because they know that both Mom and The Church went to a lot of trouble to make it clear that some decisions are BAD DECISIONS, the only way to make it Mom’s or the Church’s FAULT is to ignore the teaching part and start to accuse them of just not being LOVING enough. 😃
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I’m the mother of three, ages 29, 27, and 25.

I know first hand that most parents do indeed say, "I love you, this is why even though when you think I’m being too harsh I’m really loving you, it would be easy to say yes and get you feeling all happy because you get what you want. . .but what you ‘want’ is going to wind up hurting you dreadfully. Rather than let you hurt yourself, I’d rather hurt myself by hearing you ‘hate on me’. And here are not just ‘because I say so’ reasons but facts and testamonies from people who experienced these things first-hand and know ALL the facts."

What do the kids hear?? 'blah blah blah blah (no you can’t) blah blah (SAYS she loves me but sure doesn’t show it) blah blah blah (can’t trust grownups) blah blah (they don’t know anything) blah blah (just shut up you stupid evil hypocrites).

At first, they will first rant and rave about how ‘mean’ you were and how rigid and hateful and use this as an excuse to do the wrong thing because obviously YOU are the one who is wrong and what they do is therefore ‘right.’
Then they will blame you for not being ‘strong enough’ to stop them from doing wrong. You didn’t make it ‘clear enough.’ You didn’t talk long enough. So their wrongdoing was your fault --not because you didn’t tell them, but because you didn’t work hard enough for them to REALIZE that you were ‘right’.
Then. . .usually in the mid 20s. . .they start to allow as how maybe you DID make it clear but they weren’t quite able to understand because somebody ELSE (older sibling, trusted peer, celebrity of the month) had ‘forced’ them to disregard you by somehow misrepresenting you. So now it is the fault of that OTHER person.

FINALLY they take on their responsibility. “Yes Mom, back when you told me X, was wrong and why, and I did X anyway, it wasn’t because of YOU, or because of my best friend, it was because I didn’t want to listen and I made a bad decision. I’m sorry.”

Now I’m not saying that there are not certain people (priests, religious, even people on Catholic forums) who are pretty much into thundering “Don’t do this” without much (if any) “because I love you”. There are. But they’re the exception, not the rule.

But there are also a lot of “la la la I’m not listening” people (NOT that I am accusing anybody personally!) who make bad decisions and then want to blame it, not on themselves, but on the ‘lack’ of somebody else. . .mom or “The Church”. . .and because they know that both Mom and The Church went to a lot of trouble to make it clear that some decisions are BAD DECISIONS, the only way to make it Mom’s or the Church’s FAULT is to ignore the teaching part and start to accuse them of just not being LOVING enough. 😃
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Maybe some people do this. Not me. I’m actually trying very hard to be obedient to the teachings I don’t understand or disagree with. I just wish I felt like my Pope and Church could recognize what a struggle it is and give those of us who are trying a big 👍 once in awhile. I guess I just want a more personal relationship with the Church.
 
davidv said:
There are many more. My current pastor is one of them. I am truely sorry you haven’t encountered more of them.
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Me too! I’m not about to leave the Church over it or anything, but I think maybe this is why some people do…they are missing a vital connection that they sometimes find in some Protestant (specifically non-denominational) churches.
 
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