Are there Pharasees around today?

[inJESUS]

Additionally, there is Halahca that is not based on Torah commandments (such as lighting sabbath candles, reading the book of Esther on Purim…)

Then there is Minhag. Tradition. Many things we do are not technicallyh laws but Minhag. But many Minhag has what amounts to the same force and effect as law/halacha.

So, while I disagree that the Phraisess were hard hearted, I agree that, if you wanted to take a religion to the masses, Judaism would probably not be your best choice. It is a difficult religion in many ways to follow, it requires a lot from its followers, including being educated/studying its texts…

thank you for your responses. I see you neglect 3/4 of the 613 laws. Why?

 

[mercygate]

thank you for your responses. I see you neglect 3/4 of the 613 laws. Why?

Much of the Law applies to the Temple and cannot be observed without it. My friendly neighborhood “rabbi” (a modern Orthodox co-worker) estimates that only about 250 of the laws can be observed today because the rest apply to the Temple.

 

[Valke2]

thank you for your responses. I see you neglect 3/4 of the 613 laws. Why?

Many are associated with sacrifices and Temple practices, which cannot be done today. Some are associated with agriculture within the boundaries of Israel and are not applicable to the diaspora (or non-farmers). All of the 613 that can be done are done today.

 

[inJESUS]

Valke2 please refresh my memory regarding stoning. Under what classification do you put it?

 

[Valke2]

Valke2 please refresh my memory regarding stoning. Under what classification do you put it?

Not sure what you mean. Stoning was one of four (I think) ways of putting one to death who had committed a capital crime. It was the means of execution for murderers, blasphamy and adultry. It was used only very rarely. According to the Talmud, it was used only when someone had been warned not to commit the crime, in public (at least two witnesses), and the person went ahead and committed the crime anyway (again, in front of two witnesses). From what we know the laws were in effect for about 4 centures and were carried out a total of 8 times. (Got that last bit from Wikipedia.)

 

[inJESUS]

Not sure what you mean. Stoning was one of four (I think) ways of putting one to death who had committed a capital crime. It was the means of execution for murderers, blasphamy and adultry. It was used only very rarely. According to the Talmud, it was used only when someone had been warned not to commit the crime, in public (at least two witnesses), and the person went ahead and committed the crime anyway (again, in front of two witnesses). From what we know the laws were in effect for about 4 centures and were carried out a total of 8 times. (Got that last bit from Wikipedia.)

i meant, is it related to the temple or can it be carried now?

 

[Valke2]

btw Valke2, you already said that you do not apply the Law in many circumstances.

I said or meant to say that when the law is particulary harsh, Judiasm tends to make it difficult to invoke, i.e., the requirement that two witnesses first warn someone not to commit murder and that two witnesses testify to seeing the act, before stoning can be administered.

Which is why, I think, that the argument that the pharisees were to rigid is questionable.

 

[Valke2]

i meant, is it related to the temple or can it be carried now?

Ahh. It is related to the Temple, because a death sentence could only be carried out by the Sanhedrin, and only when the Sanhedrin issued such a decision from a specific place within the Temple (or the courtyard. can’t recall).

Here’s something interesting about the Sanhedrin, which was made up of 71 sages. If the verdict was unanimous regarding a capital case, the accused was autmatically acquitted.

The Sanhedrin itself hasn’t been around since shortly after the destruction fo the 2nd Temple, although there has been a recent attempt to re-establish it. However, even those seeking to re-establish it today have conceded that it does not have the power to impose punishment, for various reasons.

 

[inJESUS]

thx Valke2…Have you got any site that lists the 613 commandmants and maybe if they are carried out or not?thx

 

[mercygate]

I said or meant to say that when the law is particulary harsh, Judiasm tends to make it difficult to invoke, i.e., the requirement that two witnesses first warn someone not to commit murder and that two witnesses testify to seeing the act, before stoning can be administered.

Which is why, I think, that the argument that the pharisees were to rigid is questionable.

This very point appears in Paul’s description of having been punished by beaten with “the 39 strokes.” The Law required 40, but the application was only 39 lest a mistake in counting should have rendered it more severe than the Law prescribed.