Are these the 10 worst songs of all time?

[Sarah_Angel]

Oh my gosh, I know SO many people and churches who loves all these songs on the list. I don’t actually understand it. There’s this church we go to on vacation that loves Pescador de los Hombres and I’m not really sure why that song is so fantastic…

Except I do like I Am the Bread of Life, because it is scriptural and not nearly as tacky as many of the other ones on the list. It is, however, over-sung. And it can sound very terrible if sung too slowly and with a bad music group.

It’s tricky finding good songs in those Gather Hymnals. I’m not really sure why they’re so popular. I know that people tend to like older music better than some of the newer stuff out there (not that I blame them, because some newer music is pretty terrible too), but if I wanted older, I’d date it back way past the 1950’s. But that’s just me.

 

[ljubim]

strange meters and rhythms continued.

THERE IS A LOVE (Janco):the asymmetrical meter (7/4) changes to 4/4 for a single
measure, and then back. 7/4 is not someting that comes naturally to a congregation.
This seems almost silly, and one wonders if it was a joke to make the powers that be
look like fools for having accepted it (or at least for not having rejected it immediately).

GATHER US IN: rhythmically speaking, there isn’t much room for breathing in this piece.
The meter changes are 6/8, 3/8, 6/8, 3/8, 6/8. When done w/ the score fine. When
attempted by stand- in amateur musicians , “Yikes”.

CANTICLE OF THE SUN: I’ve yet to hear this one sung w/ the correct rhythm.I’ve often wondered if the rhythm in the 3rd measure(refrain) is a typo, or was Haugen actually serious. The 16th notes in the verses are very silly, and the congregation basically
does “what comes naturally”, and lengthens them to 8ths. Why were the unnatural 16ths
used instead of 8ths? This is a question we still ask ourselves 30 years after its publication.

BE NOT AFRAID: Very, very strange rhythmical writing if one is aiming at congregational
use when composing. It has probably NEVER been sung by a congregation as written.
The 16th, heavily dotted quarters, etc.(extreme shorts and longs) are all of a sudden abandoned in the 7th measure of verse 3. This is a mystery, because the words here could have been just as jerky in rhythm as the rest of it.Again, why? Did he not have enough ink in his pen to make the extra flags/dots at this point? Or is there a possible
internal joke(the words are “one day you shall laugh” ). You’ll laugh when you find out that the whole thing was a joke on the Church, and that the composer may have (note the words MAY have) laughed all the way to the bank.

SING A NEW SONG has an odd rhythmic notation in the 4th measur that is never sung that way (here). the 8th - quarter combination is always ironed out into 2 equal 8ths. This type of thing, as well as the similar “ironing outs” of the above pieces, is something that any trained musician would be aware of before attempting to write a piece. Very, very strange.

That’s all for now.

Awesome snowlake thanks for posting.

 

[ProVobis]

Lot’s of songs by Dan Schutte. I hope the music directors of my nearby parishes are aware of this list. How about “Enter Rejoice” and “Yaweh, I know you are near.” Why aren’t they on the list? Maybe the list needs to be expanded to the 29 worst songs of all time.

Ishii

The word “Yahweh” has been banned by the Church. I don’t know what they would substitute in the song with 2 syllables. “Oh God”?

 

[MarkThompson]

The word “Yahweh” has been banned by the Church. I don’t know what they would substitute in the song with 2 syllables. “Oh God”?

You can read his discussion of the issue here, if you’d like (PDF).

 

[pnewton]

Lot’s of songs by Dan Schutte. I hope the music directors of my nearby parishes are aware of this list.

Why would they be? It is artificial. Made from scratch. It has no authority.

I think Victoria was a tad out of line for imputing shame on people unfairly. It is quite an assumption that because someone picks music she does not like that they do not understand the significance of the Mass.

 

[Cat]

strange meters and rhythms continued.

THERE IS A LOVE (Janco):the asymmetrical meter (7/4) changes to 4/4 for a single
measure, and then back. 7/4 is not someting that comes naturally to a congregation.
This seems almost silly, and one wonders if it was a joke to make the powers that be
look like fools for having accepted it (or at least for not having rejected it immediately).

GATHER US IN: rhythmically speaking, there isn’t much room for breathing in this piece.
The meter changes are 6/8, 3/8, 6/8, 3/8, 6/8. When done w/ the score fine. When
attempted by stand- in amateur musicians , “Yikes”.

CANTICLE OF THE SUN: I’ve yet to hear this one sung w/ the correct rhythm.I’ve often wondered if the rhythm in the 3rd measure(refrain) is a typo, or was Haugen actually serious. The 16th notes in the verses are very silly, and the congregation basically
does “what comes naturally”, and lengthens them to 8ths. Why were the unnatural 16ths
used instead of 8ths? This is a question we still ask ourselves 30 years after its publication.

BE NOT AFRAID: Very, very strange rhythmical writing if one is aiming at congregational
use when composing. It has probably NEVER been sung by a congregation as written.
The 16th, heavily dotted quarters, etc.(extreme shorts and longs) are all of a sudden abandoned in the 7th measure of verse 3. This is a mystery, because the words here could have been just as jerky in rhythm as the rest of it.Again, why? Did he not have enough ink in his pen to make the extra flags/dots at this point? Or is there a possible
internal joke(the words are “one day you shall laugh” ). You’ll laugh when you find out that the whole thing was a joke on the Church, and that the composer may have (note the words MAY have) laughed all the way to the bank.

SING A NEW SONG has an odd rhythmic notation in the 4th measur that is never sung that way (here). the 8th - quarter combination is always ironed out into 2 equal 8ths. This type of thing, as well as the similar “ironing outs” of the above pieces, is something that any trained musician would be aware of before attempting to write a piece. Very, very strange.

That’s all for now.

The “analysis” has a lot of adjectives that can only be described as “personal opinions.”

E.g., “silly”
E.g. “very silly” “unnatural 16ths”
E.g. “very very strange” “internal joke”
E.g. “odd” “very very strange.”

These are not scientific terms because they can’t be measured. They’re opinions.

Even a word like “strange” cannot be used unless a comparison/contrast study is done in which many other songs from the same genre are studied and it is clear that the song is question truly is “strange” or “unusual” compared to other songs in the genre. To compare songs from two different genres (e.g., classical vs. pop) doesn’t work.

In addition, twice the statement was made that “a congregation has probably never sung this correctly.” That is pure conjecture. When I play pieces like “Canticle of the Sun,” or “Be Not Afraid”, I play the correct rhythm, and I’m sure many other instrumentalists and cantors in many parishes use the correct rhythm.

I have a problem when someone tries to present their personal opinion about songs in a format that makes it appear as an objective and knowledgeble musical theory analysis when in reality, it’s just bashing.

 

[snowlake]

QUOTE=pnewton;6853754]Why would they be? It is artificial. Made from scratch. It has no authority.
I think Victoria was a tad out of line for imputing shame on people unfairly. It is quite an assumption that because someone picks music she does not like that they do not understand the significance of the Mass.

Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever!

I think a lot of misunderstandings occur on these posts. In the above impromptu list,
certain songs were listed that have characteristics that can interfere with congregational
singing . In no way was it implied that it was an official list of things that are or should be
banned. They were just my thoughts about the inappropriate compositional techniques
used. My questions are “Why” did this happen, and “how” did it ever happen in the first
place.

P, it would be hard to say that Victorious was imputing shame on people. How do you know what he/she was referring to? We all read these posts through our own filters. The way I read the post, V. suggested that our musical choices at Mass might be different if we really understood the Mass better. Her statement is no different than
those offered to us by the Pope and other authorities. Therefore, how could you say that she is imputing guilt on people? You would have to say the same for the Pope, since you keep on bringing up the point that he offered these comments in un-authoritative talks and
articles.

About your preoccupation with lists: how could such a list be made? It would be very long, and it would have to include selections from every language and country. P.,every time a person offers an opinion or an objective truth about a piece they are not attempting to declare it banned. They are trying to use their God-given common sense and reasoning abilities to make determinations. Some of the information offered is opinion. some of it is objective fact. But I have to agree with you that it would certainly be better if things were clarified for us by the Bishops. In my opinion this can’t be done unless they themselves get a clarification from the Vatican about musical terms/characteristics that are incompatible w/ the Holy Sacrifice.

My personal concerns are mainly about how some of this music ever came into our parishes in the first place. How is it that a handful of composers exercise such control
over the entire English-speaking ( at least) Church, forming our tastes and theological
background from childhood up? They have more influence on us than the Teaching Church!
And objectively speaking, sometimes for ill, the YHWH and Mass of Creation flubs being examples.

I was looking at some Protestant sites about the connection of hymns to theology, and the
consensus of what I read only underscores the opinions of many posts: Hymns ARE theology, and they affect our entire formation as Christians, whether we are aware of it or not. In our case, because we have the Holy Sacrifice involved, it is not only the text, but the actual musical settings that are significant. I think V’s statement is so intimately connected with the mind of the Church, that absolutely no fault whatsoever can be imputed . Even if she and the Pope should eventually be proven wrong (?) , her statement was out of defense of Our Lord and the Mass, not out of a defense of the feelings of others. Sometimes this needs to be done.

 

[pnewton]

P, it would be hard to say that Victorious was imputing shame on people. How do you know what he/she was referring to?

What was said was:

we could actually see with our bodily eyes the reality of where we are at Mass, we’d be ashamed to sing a lot of what we’re singing.

Perhaps this was not meant to come across as so definite an I should not read it so literally, but it leaves no wiggle room. Not that we might be ashamed, but the we would be ashamed.

About your preoccupation with lists: how could such a list be made? It would be very long, and it would have to include selections from every language and country. P.,every time a person offers an opinion or an objective truth about a piece they are not attempting to declare it banned.

I have no preoccupation with list, nor can I imagine why you think I have. I did not start this thread. I have never made a list. I have referred to the fact that there is no list of songs inappropriate from the Church, at any level. Rather the preoccupation seems to be those that want to repeat their interpretation of Church teaching over and over again, instead of simply encouraging that all be diligent in reading what the Church has said and following to the best of their ability.

I know it is a thin line between disagreeing and being disagreable, but we can not judge others that are serving God to the best of their abilities because we do not see things the same way. You think I took Victorious the wrong way, and I acknowledge that you could be right. Yet how easy have the musical critics here been to judge everything in this thread in the worst possible light? I have done most of those songs on the list (not all) and I would not be in the least bit ashamed of my choice if Jesus returned in Glory during any of them.

 

[snowlake]

P., I think you’re right on many of these things. As far as the list goes, I was referring to
your repeated statements in many threads about the lack of a list, and your reasoning that, since one does not exist, no one has a right to bring up objections to certain pieces.

This is what I’ve learned: we might have to type in lengthy disclaimers before each post in order to make sure that we’re not taken the wrong way. For instance, every time certain
aspects of a piece are termed “objectionable” by someone, they will need to type in exactly what is opinion and exactly what they think is fact.

You’re right about everyone reading the documents, etc., and doing the best that they can.
Has anyone suggested otherwise? But to follow your suggestion to a “T” would preclude
any discussion of the songs at all. For instance, this would leave out important give and take about distinguishing between subjective/opinion oriented aspects of the music (of which there are many), and objective formal aspects(of which there are many). If we could separate the two and be able to make these distinctions, there would be less argumentation. One does not need an authoritative document to speak about compositional style, rhythm, meter, harmony, melody, instrumentation. People may have different opinions about what to do with the objective findings, but that doesn’t mean that
the findings are not objective in nature. Some people might even welcome the analyses
to help them with their own decision-making and opinions, since they might be less qualified to do those things themselves.

The statement that certain rhythms/meters are present in a piece is objective fact.
The statement that these songs are difficult to sing by a group “as written” is objective fact (I’m not speaking of a rehearsed choir, but a congregation). The resulting statement
that , because of these facts,it would not be a good idea to use those pieces is my
OPINION. Some people, when presented w/ the facts, would prefer to use the songs anyway. That’s their decision. No one was trying to declare a ban.

I sometimes go to a Sunday afternoon Mass where there is no musical accompaniment.
This is a very large parish, and there are hundreds of people there. The priest himself starts off the singing, and everyone joins in. He is a very young priest, and generally
uses quite traditional hymns. These are very easy to sing, and pretty rhythmically stable.
Because of this, everyone sings, and it works out well. When he has on occasion selected one or another of the highly complex rhythmic songs, the singing peters out,
some people are a beat or two (or a whole measure) ahead/behind others, and all ends
in a fiasco, w/ people laughing over the whole situation.

This serves to underscore the FACT that such pieces have inherent difficulties, and my
OPINION that other hymns should be used.

 

[CatholicZ09]

They didn’t mention “All Are Welcome” by Marty Haugen. I can’t believe that it didn’t make the list because that has got to be the single worst piece of church music ever written.

I never really liked Marty Haugen’s “All Are Welcome” used at Mass. My parish used it this weekend.

I tend to not like any of the “gathering” type hymns, such as “Gather Us In”, “Now As We Gather”, “Gather the People” “Gather Your People”, etc. etc.

It seems like the gathering songs tend to be more focused on us rather than what the big picture is. The only gathering songs that I can take in are “What Is This Place”, “Come, Ye Thankful People, Come”, and Owen Alstott’s “Gather Us Together”.

 

[jilly4ski]

I had the unfortunate opportunity to hear Jerusalem, my Destiny sung during a Good Friday service. Now because of that, I cannot stand that song. Talk about inappropriate at that time. The Gather hymnal places this hymn in the “Lent” section, which I don’t really understand. Someone was talking about the ridiculous fast meter on specific words in songs, well this in one. How fast can you say destiny…Go. Not to mention the peppy up beat rhythm and melody is completely inappropriate for lent.

Jerusalem My Destiny Rory Cooney

I have fixed my eyes on your hills, Jerusalem, my Destiny.
Though I cannot see the end for me I cannot turn away.
We have set our hearts for the way; this journey is our destiny.
Let no one walk alone. The journey makes us one.

Other spirits, lesser gods, have courted me with lies.
Here among you I have found a truth that bids me rise.

Refrain

See, I leave the past behind; a new land calls to me.
Here among you now I find a glimpse of what might be.

Refrain

In my thirst, you let me drink the waters of your life,
Here among you I have met, the Savior, Jesus Christ.

Refrain

All the worlds I have not seen you open to my view.
Here among you I have found a vision bright and new.

Refrain

To the tombs I went to mourn the hope I thought was gone,
Here among you I awoke to unexpected dawn.

Refrain

 

[ishii]

Why would they be? It is artificial. Made from scratch. It has no authority.

I think Victoria was a tad out of line for imputing shame on people unfairly. It is quite an assumption that because someone picks music she does not like that they do not understand the significance of the Mass.

The mistake was limiting it to 10 songs and also not forwarding it to every music director in the parishes within a 50 mile radius of my residence. These music directors are stuck in the 70’s with their warmed over, pop/folk songs. “…let our tears be turned into dancing…”(City of God) Ouch.

Stuck. In. The. Seventies.

Ishii

 

[bmadamsberry]

Are there any songs that are worthy for Mass? Afterall, it is Christ, physically present on the altar. Truely, no song is worthy enough to be sung in front of Christ. So the argument that people keep using of “we’d be embarressed to sing this in fron of Christ” or “that songs not worthy of the Savior” or “that song doesn’t represent Calvary correctly” is a bad, unlogical argument, because no song is worthy of being done in front of Christ.
I’ve been looking at some of the songs in Scripture, like in Revelations. Some of the songs are good songs… some of them would find fault in some of your eyes because they express “watered down” theology (like one verse that speaks of us becoming kings and priests), etc.

 

[pnewton]

The mistake was limiting it to 10 songs and also not forwarding it to every music director in the parishes within a 50 mile radius of my residence. These music directors are stuck in the 70’s with their warmed over, pop/folk songs. “…let our tears be turned into dancing…”(City of God) Ouch.

Stuck. In. The. Seventies.

Ishii

I do not understand the significance of one word sentences, but I think everyone is familiar with what year it is, your insults not withstanding.

FYI - CIty of God was written in 1947.

 

[benedictgal]

I do not understand the significance of one word sentences, but I think everyone is familiar with what year it is, your insults not withstanding.

FYI - CIty of God was written in 1947.

Actually, Dan Schutte is the composer and it was written in 1981. Schutte was born in 1947.

 

[pnewton]

Actually, Dan Schutte is the composer and it was written in 1981. Schutte was born in 1947.

I stand corrected. I had to look up the key to see what “b.” stood for. It never would occur to me that a composer’s birthday would be listed.

 

[benedictgal]

I stand corrected. I had to look up the key to see what “b.” stood for. It never would occur to me that a composer’s birthday would be listed.

Even though it’s a bad song, it would have been astounding to have had a child prodigy write something on the day he was born.

 

[ishii]

I do not understand the significance of one word sentences, but I think everyone is familiar with what year it is, your insults not withstanding.

FYI - CIty of God was written in 1947.

One word sentences were for extra emphasis. Sorry you found my post insulting. Speaking of insults, the folk/70’s music that is played in mass is really an insult to good, reverent liturgical music - and that goes for that 70’s-type song, City of God. I can’t imagine a song like that being written in '47.

More traditional music that is befitting of the liturgy, less modern,folk/'70’s protestant styled music. Please. Really. IMO anyway, and opinions are what this thread is all about right?

Ishii

 

[Jhonwask]

I actually like Toolan’s “I Am the Bread of Life” and Haugen’s “We Remember”.

Toolan’s song can be taken directly from scripture:

What scripture is “Sons of God” from?
sons of God, hear His holy Word
gather round, the table of the Lord.
Eat His Body, drink His Blood
and we’ll sing the song of love
hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, hallelu u-ia.

brothers, sisters, we are one,
and our song has just begun
in the Spirit, we are one,
and we’ll live for-evvvv-errrr.

I love being Catholic. I hate the songs they “play”. I feel like I’m at a campfire. some songs are beautiful, but don’t belong in a church. Some hymns are beautiful, and should be sung. There are tens of thousands of beautiful hymns written for the Catholic church. Why do I hear the same SONGS every week? I am just sad about this. I miss having a church orchestra and choir. Now we have an electric organ and a wedding singer, who gets applause after each Mass. I genuflect; most bow or wave their heads. I fold my hands; most put their hands in their pockets or around their spouse’s waist. I don’t even bring my cell phone into church; most turn off the ringer, some don’t bother. Are we that self-centered? Don’t we want to even TRY to be better, to do something HARDER, to listen to something LONGER not about US?

 

[Jhonwask]

I agree!!!

Not necessarily, bmadamsberry. Please note what the Venerable Pope John Paul II noted in his Chirograph on Sacred Music:

Pope Benedict XVI makes this point even clearer in Sacramentum Caritatis:

So, it’s not just the text, but the musical setting that is also involved. If something is inferior, it should not be used in the Mass. In the case of both Eagles’ Wings and I am the Bread of Life, the music is a musical genre that “fails to respect the meaning of the liturgy.”