S
sandusky
Guest
Older is only better, only if older is right.
Are those who do not receive Jesus in Holy Eucharist really Christians? Is it insanity for them to continue claiming to be Christians?
- Status
M
Mickey
Guest
Hooray! You are finally understanding! :clapping:
Sacred Tradition starts 2000 years ago and takes us to the present. What was true and correct 2000 years ago–is still true and correct 1000 years ago–is still true and correct today. Good for you sandusky–you are understanding!
The bread is at first common bread; but when the mystery sanctifies it, it is called and actually becomes the Body of Christ.
St. Gregory Of Nyssa, “Orations and Sermons” [Jaeger Vol 9, pp. 225-226] ca. 383 A.D.
R
rinnie
Guest
I think this all goes back to the same thing. Alot of these threads do seem to. In the Catholic Religion we do not have scripture only to teach us. That is why Jesus did not leave us the bible he left us the Church. He left his apostles to teach in that church to explain these things to us. Not to get off the subject and I do not want to do that, I am just stating a fact. Because if it were not for the Church and the teaching of the Church we in fact could never really understand what CHrist wanted us to know. You must have the gift of the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture. That, thank goodness is in the bible. While I agree Catholics do not understand everything either, we do have a church to go to and reveal to us the truth. And if you take 20 Catholics and they disagree about something or don’t understand they can all 20 go into the Church and come out and understand the truth. And they will accept it because they know the Church is the truth. And they will all come out with understanding and be in full agreement. That is the big difference between the Catholic Faith, if it comes between us and the Church the Church rules and is correct. We cannot and will not go against the teaching’s of the Church.Then non-Catholics don’t have eternal life, and they can’t.
Because it’s part of the context of the passage, and it explains what is meant by “not discerning the body.”
Paul doesn’t explain anything, he simply reiterates what Christ said at the supper.
I am sticking to the context, it’s you who’s not.
What are you talking about ”Paul placing a curse??? Paul doesn’t curse anyone.
Paul isn’t “handing on” anything; he’s simply re-stating what the Lord said at the supper.
:doh2:
By grace.
Those passages have nothing to do with John 6; the context of John 6, is John 6.
Paul doesn’t teach any such thing; neither does Peter.
:doh2:
LOL.
N
ncgolf
Guest
My own opinion and observations on this topic … if the Church is incorrect on the Doctrine of the Real Presence … then we cannot be Christian. This would put us with the pagan idoloters in OT Egypt worshipping an object like a god that is not God.
If the Church is correct … on something we cannot truly see with our senses then the Church has everything, for it has Christ … and we worship Christ as He commanded.
There is no wiggle room for us Catholics as none was left for us by the Apostles and this is why for us the Eucharist is the source and summit of our Catholic faith.
If the Church is correct … on something we cannot truly see with our senses then the Church has everything, for it has Christ … and we worship Christ as He commanded.
There is no wiggle room for us Catholics as none was left for us by the Apostles and this is why for us the Eucharist is the source and summit of our Catholic faith.
M
Mickey
Guest
Therefore, in order that we may become of His Body, not in desire only, but also in very fact, let us become commingled with that Body. This, in truth, takes place by means of the food which He has given us as a gift, because He desires to prove the love which He has for us. It is for this reason that He shared Himself with us and has brought His Body down to our level, namely, that we might be one with Him as the body is joined with the head. This, in truth is characteristic of those who greatly love. Job, indeed, was implying this when he said of his servants–by whom he was loved with such an excess of love–that they desired to cleave to his flesh. In giving expression to the great love which they possessed, they said: `Who will give us of his flesh that we may be filled?’ Moreover, Christ has done even this to spur us on to even greater love. And to show the love He has for us He has made it possible for those who desire, not merely to look upon Him,! but even to touch Him and to consume Him and to fix their teeth in His Flesh and to be commingled with Him; in short, to fulfill all their love. Let us, then, come back from that table like lions breathing out fire, thus becoming terrifying to the Devil, and remaining mindful of our Head and of the love which He has shown for us.
St. John Chrysostom, c. 390 A.D. Homily 46 (on John 6)
St. John Chrysostom, c. 390 A.D. Homily 46 (on John 6)
S
sandusky
Guest
I understand, Mickey. The thing that matters in regard to truth is age, and the older you get, the more right you are; correct? 
R
rinnie
Guest
And while I agree that they really don’t understand the great and wonderful gift that we have in the sacrament of Communion, the fact still remains that as long as they believe in the Trinity, they can be considered Christians. Because to be called a Christian you follow Christ and his commandments. So my answer would still remain to be yes even though they do not understand the importance of the Holy Eucharist, as long as they love God and again follow the ten, they can be called Christians.
R
rinnie
Guest
Now if you are were asking are they following the Catholic Faith, Well then thats another subject, and I believe they would even agree. THat would be no.
M
Mickey
Guest
Perhaps that is the case with you? I do not know how old you are, but you certainly think you are correct about everything.
But when the Apostolic Church has been teaching the Real Presence for 2000 years—and Sacred Scripture is clear about the Holy Eucharist–and the Church Fathers’ writings agree with Sacred Scripture—and the earliest Fathers (some of whom were disciples of the Apostles) also write about the Real Presence----------then it is very cut and dry.
How you can come to an alternate conclusion based on the 500 year old reformed interpretation of a worldly tradition----is a complete mystery to me. But you certainly have free will.
This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God’s Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus.
St. Justin Martyr, “First Apology”, Ch. 66, inter A.D. 148-155.
S
sandusky
Guest
Actually, I know the truth, and I prefer it.
S
sandusky
Guest
IMO, the older the CC gets, the more confused she becomes. :ehh:Perhaps that is the case with you? I do not know how old you are, but you certainly think you are correct about everything.
My understanding is based upon the older revelation of God which precedes the church.
S
sandusky
Guest
That seems to be the theology de jour in the CC’s confusion regarding former heretics who are now affectionately called “separated brethren.” :whacky:
M
Mickey
Guest
Many of your understandings are based on the false interpretations of the deceived reformers.
To communicate each day and to partake of the holy Body and Blood of Christ is good and beneficial; for He says quite plainly: ‘He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life.’ Who can doubt that to share continually in life is the same thing as having life abundantly? We ourselves communicate four times each week, on Sunday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday; and on other days if there is a commemoration of any saint.
St. Basil The Great, "Letter to a Patrician Lady Caesaria [93] ca. 372 A.D.
M
Mickey
Guest
You are entitled to your opinion.
S
sandusky
Guest
The reformers weren’t deceived; by His grace and providence, God recovered the Gospel of Christ through them, a Gospel which had been discarded in the papal struggles for power and wealth.
S
sandusky
Guest
:tiphat:
M
Mickey
Guest
LOL.
I see. The Gospel of Christ was lost until the reformers recovered it. Good one sandusky!
When we speak of the reality of Christ’s nature being in us, we would be speaking foolishly and impiously - had we not learned it from Him. For He Himself says: ‘My Flesh is truly Food, and My Blood is truly Drink. He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood will remain in Me and I in him.’ As to the reality of His Flesh and Blood, there is no room left for doubt, because now, both by the declaration of the Lord Himself and by our own faith, it is truly the Flesh and it is truly Blood. And These Elements bring it about, when taken and consumed, that we are in Christ and Christ is in us. Is this not true? Let those who deny that Jesus Christ is true God be free to find these things untrue. But He Himself is in us through the flesh and we are in Him, while that which we are with Him is in God.
St. Hilary Of Poiters, “The Trinity” [8,14] inter 356-359 A.D.
S
sandusky
Guest
Sadly, you don’t yet see, but I’ll continue praying for all of you.LOL.
I see. The Gospel of Christ was lost until the reformers recovered it. Good one sandusky!
M
Mickey
Guest
Tragically, you are not able to see through the veil that has blinded your understanding.
I have never stopped praying for you.
img46.imageshack.us/img46/9795/cross2smsx2.th.gifimg46.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif
You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. The chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ.
St Augustine, “Sermons”, [227, 21]
R
ralphinal
Guest
If they were not deceived, then 100% of the theology of denominations born of the Reformation should agree 100%.The reformers weren’t deceived; by His grace and providence, God recovered the Gospel of Christ through them, a Gospel which had been discarded in the papal struggles for power and wealth.
- Status