Are Unitarians Christians?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Feedmysheep
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If any of us are “saved” it is and always has been through the grace and mercy of God in Christ that does so. He and He alone is the Redeemer…and Sustainer…and Lover…and Daystar that Lights our way back to the Presence from which we came.

I do not believe reciting or ascenting to doctrines and dogmas and creeds and “theological” propositions is what brings our world wholeness…it is the work of God which brings us into relationship with Him.
Yes, you are correct that reciting doctrines and dogmas and creeds do not bring our world wholeness.

However, would it not be true, from logic, that assenting to these doctrines and dogmas and creeds will, by definition, bring our world wholeness?
 
One of the things that sets UU’s apart from other Christians is what sets Friends apart as well…we seek to follow the “religion” OF Jesus and obey his ethical and moral teachings…
What ethical and moral teachings did Jesus profess that any morally sane person does not already know?

That is, Jesus does not provide any new ethical or moral teachings–everyone who has any moral competence already knows to “do unto others”. In fact, that teaching, as I’m certain you know, is not exclusive to Christianity.

So I find it puzzling that many follow Jesus because of his “ethical teachings”, which were not, to be frank, mind-blowingly trenchant and philosophically profound.

Everyone already knows to turn the other cheek.

Isn’t that the point of atheism? Everyone already knows, through the law written in his heart, what’s the moral thing to do?
other Christians follow a religion ABOUT Jesus as much of their time is spent defining what they are to BELIEVE about him…almost to the exclusion of his ethical and moral teachings.
Catholics spend a lot of time contemplating this:
He was the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world.

THAT is why he came–not to be a good moral teacher, not to heal the sick (he healed only a handful, and if that was his purpose, then he failed miserably), not to create a military revolution…🤷
 
All of these debates are just playing with words, really. I think we can all agree - be we Catholic or Unitarian or anything in between - that the modern denomination called the “Unitarian Universalist Association” is not a Christian body. On the other hand I would contend it yet contains many members who are Christians, even though I viciously oppose their beliefs.

The Bible never gives a definition of what a “Christian” is, and does not seem to attach any importance at all to the term. So I would much prefer to use it as a simple demographic category - a person who professes to follow Jesus.

You can say a Christian must be baptized - very well, but how do you describe one who has spent years studying the Bible and believes every article of the Faith, but lives in some isolated place and never was able to be baptized? I simply cannot in honestly use any other word than “Christian” to describe his religion.

Or you can say a “Christian” must believe the Nicene Creed - very well, but what do we call the liberal of today who denies the virgin birth? His is a horrible heresy, to be sure, but despite this heresy he prays to Jesus Christ. And again, is his religion is not Christianity, then what is it?

These restrictions are all very good for the word “Catholic” - I will agree one cannot be a Catholic who is not baptized, or who denies the Creed. But the Roman Church is an actual visible institution, and has the ability to make rules and decisions, which Christianity as a whole - even if the Catholic Church is the true church - does not. So I cannot for the life of me understand this bizarre reluctance to call people of erroneous belief or irregular sacramental situations by the word “Christian”, which any impartial outsider should see they deserve.
:bowdown: :bowdown2: :amen:

One of the wisest posts I’ve seen on this, or any other, thread!!!
 
Oh thank goodness! :extrahappy: For a second there…:rolleyes:

Unbelievable…
Fireman,
*
What is your problem?*

This thread started with the question “Are Unitarians Christians?”

In the common definition of the word, No. Some Unitarians venerate Jesus but few, if any, believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was (is) God.

Then people asked whether UU is a cult?

Here’s a definition of cult from the Free Online Dictionary: (emphasis mine)
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
  1. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
  2. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.

6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

If you feel that UU is a cult because it’s false, then all other religions besides the RCC–are cults–Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Orthodoxy, and of course, all Protestants.

UU doesn’t devote itself to an ‘originator’ and claims no exclusive or exceptional powers for UU members or its leaders.

UU-ers (;)) aren’t obsessive, faddish and are certainly not exclusive or esoteric–indeed, they have been criticized for being too inclusive.

I find it odd that questions about UU keep coming up on CAF. Why the interest? UU is small, though influential beyond its numbers, like the Quakers, and funds international charities beyond its numbers, also like the Quakers. But UU should hold no interest for Catholics. UU-ers don’t keep asking about the RCC–many UU members, indeed a substantial percentage, are* former* Catholics.
 
This story is truely touching and invokes thoughts of similliar friends & relatives.
I can’t help but believe that, since she would not step inside a Catholic Cathedral even to simply cool off in that terrible heat, she is not at all comfortable with her choice. To realize that this gal, with the tremendous example of her Catholic Mother, no longer believes in the divinity of Christ, is just so sad.
 
I find it odd that questions about UU keep coming up on CAF. Why the interest? UU is small, though influential beyond its numbers, like the Quakers, and funds international charities beyond its numbers, also like the Quakers. But UU should hold no interest for Catholics. UU-ers don’t keep asking about the RCC–many UU members, indeed a substantial percentage, are* former* Catholics.
Why in the world would questions about Unitarians be odd on a forum that discusses religious beliefs? :confused:

The topic has taken up only a minuscule portion of the CAFs discussions, really.
 
Why in the world would questions about Unitarians be odd on a forum that discusses religious beliefs? :confused:

The topic has taken up only a minuscule portion of the CAFs discussions, really.
Because it keeps coming up. The UU’s are a small denomination, the RCC is a large one, although filled with members of various shades of belief and observance, and the RCC is (apparently) being chased and harassed by the evangelicals, the Mormons and the JWs, moch larger and rapidly growing groups, and possibly losing members to these groups, especially in South America. However, there is frequently a CAF thread on the UUs which ends up ridiculing them and listing all the reasons they aren’t Christian. The UU is well represented online by the UUA, with links which have already posted for anyone interested in the ‘official’ line on what UUs believe. Go there for the answers. If you’re curious about UU, and I suspect a number of CAF posters are curious, go to the UU churches.
 
Because it keeps coming up. The UU’s are a small denomination, the RCC is a large one, although filled with members of various shades of belief and observance, and the RCC is (apparently) being chased and harassed by the evangelicals, the Mormons and the JWs, moch larger and rapidly growing groups, and possibly losing members to these groups, especially in South America. However, there is frequently a CAF thread on the UUs which ends up ridiculing them and listing all the reasons they aren’t Christian. The UU is well represented online by the UUA, with links which have already posted for anyone interested in the ‘official’ line on what UUs believe. Go there for the answers. If you’re curious about UU, and I suspect a number of CAF posters are curious, go to the UU churches.
Yes, it keeps coming up as there is a constant stream of new posters.

I have been on the CAFs for a long time and the amount of posts dedicated to Unitarians hardly raises a blip.

At any rate, we are free here to discuss any religious topic, and certainly the doctrines of Unitarians are up for grabs. 🤷
 
Well regardless of any of the responses here, and regardless of the way that anyone feels, please know that Unitarians are not weird cult members. (7 US Presidents were Unitarian!) We are your neighbors, your colleagues, your friends and we love you, and respect and admire your undying faith as Catholics.

In God’s Love,

Steve
 
Yes, you are correct that reciting doctrines and dogmas and creeds do not bring our world wholeness.

However, would it not be true, from logic, that assenting to these doctrines and dogmas and creeds will, by definition, bring our world wholeness?
If by “assenting” to these doctrines causes your life to exemplifiy the Spirit of Christ…and inspire you to serve your neighbor…to “live in peace and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord”…then there would be merit in those doctrines…as even the “deomons believe and tremble”…but if those doctrines cause hate and discention…anger…rudeness…pain and separation from the ones who wear the face of Jesus in our world…they aren’t much good at ministering to this broken world…IMO.
 
7 US Presidents were Unitarian!
So? That doesn’t change a thing… It’s not like these men were right in everything they did or believed. They were human too.
I don’t know how that changes anything in the question whether or not Unitarians are Christians.

Apart from that I don’t believe that your count is quite right:
  • Baptist (4): Warren G. Harding, Harry S. Truman, Jimmy E. Carter, William J. “Bill” Clinton
  • Congregationalist (1): J. Calvin Coolidge Jr.
  • Disciples of Christ (2): James A. Garfield, Lyndon B. Johnson
  • Dutch Reformed (2): Martin Van Buren, Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt
  • Episcopalian (10): George Washington, James Madison Jr., James Monroe, William H. Harrison, John Tyler Jr., Zachary Taylor, Chester A. Arthur, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Gerald R. Ford, George H. W. Bush
  • Methodist (3): James K. Polk, William McKinley Jr., George W. Bush
  • No specific affiliation (5): Thomas Jefferson, Franklin Pierce, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes
  • Presbyterian (8): Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan Jr., Ulysses S. Grant, S. Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, T. Woodrow Wilson, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ronald W. Reagan
  • Quaker (2): Herbert C. Hoover, Richard M. Nixon
  • Roman Catholic (1): John F. Kennedy
  • Unaffiliated Christian (1): Barack H. Obama
  • Unitarian (4): John Adams, John Q. Adams, Millard Fillmore, William H. Taft
(I sorted their affiliation alphabetically and their names within the groups after the years of their first presidency.)

    • George Washington – Episcopalian
    • John Adams – Unitarian, originally Congregationalist
    • Thomas Jefferson– no specific affiliation, somewhat affiliated with the Episcopal Church (where he was a member), Unitarianism, and Deism. “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.” (Source of Quote)
    • James Madison Jr. – Episcopalian (some sources classify him as a deist)
    • James Monroe– Episcopalian
    • John Quincy Adams– Unitarian
    • Andrew Jackson– Presbyterian
    • Martin Van Buren – Dutch Reformed
    • William Henry Harrison – Episcopalian
    • John Tyler Jr. – Episcopalian
    • James K. Polk– Methodist
    • Zachary Taylor – nominally Episcopalian
    • Millard Fillmore – Unitarian
    • Franklin Pierce – no specific affiliation (later Episcopalian)
    • James Buchanan Jr. – Presbyterian
    • Abraham Lincoln – no specific affiliation (though he frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible he never officially joined any church)
    • Andrew Johnson – no specific affiliation
    • Ulysses S. Grant – Presbyterian, Methodist
    • Rutherford B. Hayes – no specific affiliation (sources vary)
    • James A. Garfield – Disciples of Christ
    • Chester A. Arthur – Episcopalian
    • S. Grover Cleveland – Presbyterian
    • Benjamin Harrison – Presbyterian
    • Grover Cleveland – see 22
    • William McKinley Jr. – Methodist
    • Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt – Dutch Reformed (some Episcopalian affiliations)
    • William Howard Taft – Unitarian
    • T. Woodrow Wilson – Presbyterian
    • Warren G. Harding – Baptist
    • J. Calvin Coolidge Jr. – Congregationalist
    • Herbert Hoover – Quaker
    • Franklin D. Roosevelt – Episcopalian
    • Harry S. Truman – Baptist
    • Dwight D. Eisenhower – Presbyterian (Due to his parents he was first part of the River Brethren, then a JW. He was baptized and confirmed Presbyterian shortly after his first inauguration.)
    • John F. Kennedy – Roman Catholic
    • Lyndon B. Johnson – Disciples of Christ
    • Richard Nixon – Quaker (though he had some issues with some within his faith over the Vietnam War)
    • Gerald R. Ford – Episcopalian
    • Jimmy E. Carter – Baptist (former Southern Baptist. Distanced himself from the SBC in 2000 over several issues, among them the SBC’s denial of female ordination.)
    • Ronald W. Reagan – Presbyterian (Self-identification. He was raised Disciples of Christ)
    • George H. W. Bush – Episcopalian
    • William J. “Bill” Clinton – Baptist (Southern Baptist, though some in his denomination have issues with him on several matters)
    • George W. Bush – Methodist (raised Episcopalian)
    • Barack Obama – unaffiliated Christian (though baptized in the UCC)
 
Well regardless of any of the responses here, and regardless of the way that anyone feels, please know that Unitarians are not weird cult members. (7 US Presidents were Unitarian!) We are your neighbors, your colleagues, your friends and we love you, and respect and admire your undying faith as Catholics.

In God’s Love,

Steve
I sense an attempt to demonize and isolate UUs on this forum. They are not members of a cult. They do attract disaffected Catholics, in numbers proportionate to their percentage of the population, but not because they proselytize, aside from the occasional newspaper ad. Their influence is out of proportion to their numbers, as is their charity, which is well-funded. If you fear incursion by UUs, however, you are mistaken. Address your concerns to the Mormons, pentecostals, JW’s and evangelicals. Not to UU.
 
I sense an attempt to demonize and isolate UUs on this forum. They are not members of a cult. They do attract disaffected Catholics, in numbers proportionate to their percentage of the population, but not because they proselytize, aside from the occasional newspaper ad. Their influence is out of proportion to their numbers, as is their charity, which is well-funded. If you fear incursion by UUs, however, you are mistaken. Address your concerns to the Mormons, pentecostals, JW’s and evangelicals. Not to UU.
Well the question was whether Unitarian’s are Christians and that is what is being debated… even though we already have an answer from a Unitarian:
Well, you are right. I am not a Christian. I am a Unitarian.
 
If by “assenting” to these doctrines causes your life to exemplifiy the Spirit of Christ…and inspire you to serve your neighbor…to “live in peace and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord”…then there would be merit in those doctrines…as even the “deomons believe and tremble”…but if those doctrines cause hate and discention…anger…rudeness…pain and separation from the ones who wear the face of Jesus in our world…they aren’t much good at ministering to this broken world…IMO.
Well,of course, Publisher. 🤷
 
Well the question was whether Unitarian’s are Christians and that is what is being debated… even though we already have an answer from a Unitarian:
This question has already been answered. Why is the thread continuing?
 
This question has already been answered. Why is the thread continuing?
Think of it like being at a cocktail party and someone asked the question. Perhaps the answer was resolved after 2 or 3 people contributed their opinion. However, now the conversation has segued into “why do people discuss the UU denomination?”

🤷
 
This question has already been answered. Why is the thread continuing?
I guess it’s for the sake of having a good conversation about the key issue that is separating the UU’s from what we commonly call Christianity, that issue being the deity of Jesus Christ.
That issue is also one between most of us and the Religious Society of Friends (a.k.a. Quakers) which makes this an interesting topic as it’s now got an even wider scope.
 
I guess it’s for the sake of having a good conversation about the key issue that is separating the UU’s from what we commonly call Christianity, that issue being the deity of Jesus Christ.
That issue is also one between most of us and the Religious Society of Friends (a.k.a. Quakers) which makes this an interesting topic as it’s now got an even wider scope.
Quakers tend to be more ‘religious’ than UUs. They were frankly mystical at the start (hence the name) and were/are theists and followers of the social gospel of Jesus, which they still are. Most Quakers attend Meetings, dominated by silence and witness. They refer to the “Light” and “that of God” at Meeting–when they talk. There are both Quakers and UUs that follow Jesus as a great prophet, teacher and spiritual leader, and I think those UUs who* focus* on Jesus have groups within UU churches–there are always a lot of groups and committees, ditto the Quakers–and also talk to each other online. In addition to Quaker Meetings, there are a few Quaker churches, especially in the midwest, where they sing hymns, have a Quaker minister and maybe a sermon (I have never attended one of these).

I don’t know if viewers are aware of this, but in the contest of the Quaker Meetings, there aren’t any ministers. (Confusing: both the congregation and its services are referred to as meeting–usually the congregation is a Meeting, and the service is a meeting). Elected members of the Meeting run the Meeting, but all the members are expected to donate their time and involvement in a serious way.

There are ‘birthright’ Quakers (their term) and UUs, but many are refugees from other denominations, for UU in proportion to the percentage in the general population, thus a lot of former Catholics, mainstream Protestants and quite a few Jews, the latter perhaps more than the general population.

UU has a strong presence in international charity, but the Quakers’ presence is remarkable, considering their numbers and the fact that most Quakers aren’t rich–in the American Friends Service Committee. The Quakers have founded many outstanding colleges such as Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Earlham, Wm. Penn, Friends University, Whittier, George Fox, Guilford Colleges, Johns Hopkins and Cornell Universities, and Germantown Friends and Delaware Friends, outstanding prep schools. They founded and maintain an outstanding groups of fully accredited retirement homes in the east and Middle Atlantic states known as the Kendal Corporation.

…all by a denomination with a US 2007 membership of about 86,830 members!–the size of some RC dioceses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top