C
Contarini
Guest
Define “absolutely sure”?Yop, we are…
If you mean that you personally have no feelings of doubt, then obviously only you can say that.
Edwin
- Status
If you mean that you personally have no feelings of doubt, then obviously only you can say that.
Edwin
D
Della
Guest
Definitely sure it is the truth because of the evidence for it (both natural and spiritual), but individuals may have doubts because of our fallen nature.
P
Peter_Plato
Guest
I suggest that a kind of triangulation (or rather a quadrangulation) from four directions can be brought into effect to make certainty possible.
When
- Sacred Tradition,
- Scriptural Authority,
- the Magisterial Authority of the Church and
- “personal” certainty (epistemic certainty from the combination of personal experience, scientific knowledge and ethics)
are ALL brought to bear, in appropriate proportion, certainty is not only possible but what does occur as a logical and natural consequence.
It is not the mindful that succumb to uncertainty, but rather those who develop tunnel vision and only take into account or overemphasize one or two of those perspectives who become susceptible to it.
L
Lapey
Guest
I am as sure as the truth will always be truth that the Catholic Church is the Church built upon the Rock Peter by Jesus whom He promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead and protect and the netherworld shall not prevail against Her.
What reason would I have to doubt? Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium contain the Truth, history defends this authority. To see otherwise is to ignore or misunderstand history.
You and I have had this discussion years ago, before I was ordained to the Diaconate. My security in these thoughts is only stronger.
Furthermore, if I would see “my church” accepting untruths like same sex relations/marriage, female ordinations, divorce and remarriage, etc. I would not doubt but run. I would then begin looking for what Church with ties to the beginning is not “changing with the times”, as truth does not change with the times.
H
HelenRose
Guest
In that wonderful book, “On Heaven and Earth: Pope Francis on Faith, Family, and the Church in the Twenty-First Century” written by Jorge Mario Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) and Abraham Skorka (a Jewish Rabbi), Rabbi Skorka stated that he was 98% certain that God exists. The 2% uncertainty made him humble. So for me (and I only speak for myself) I am 98% positive that the Catholic Faith is 100% TRUTH and I will leave 2% to keep me humble.
F
frobert
Guest
That is the way most people feel about the religion they have been born in especially when they are told from childhood that it is the only true religion.
A person I know who is of another religion and who I personally consider a holy man once told me he believed that when you die you are met by the God of your birth religion. As a catholic we are not suppose to believe such things but I do find it a charitable thought.
C
Contarini
Guest
There’s only one God. If my view of God is wrong–I know of course that it’s imperfect–I don’t want it to continue for all eternity.
Edwin
D
Della
Guest
Yes, like the young Calormen soldier in “The Last Battle” who had worshiped Tash all his life meeting Aslan the Lion whom he supposedly hated all his life. Aslan assured the young soldier that all he’d done that was good in the name of Tash he’d really being doing in Aslan’s honor (or words to that effect). This is in line with Catholic teaching regarding non-Catholics being saved through the redemption of Christ.
C
Contarini
Guest
I would say I was happy for your certainty, except for the nastiness of the last paragraph. I can’t be happy for whatever makes you inclined to engage in such digs against fellow Christians.
Edwin
B
Bookcat
Guest
Apt line from the Catechism:
157 Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can seem obscure to human reason and experience, but “the certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that which the light of natural reason gives.” “Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/157.htm
157 Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can seem obscure to human reason and experience, but “the certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that which the light of natural reason gives.” “Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/157.htm
B
Brendan_64
Guest
And this is the point. If we had complete ‘proof’ then there would be no need for faith. The fact that there is no absolute proof means that people have to have faith and unconditionally place their trust in the Lord. The lack of absolute proof is vital to our faith.
D
Della
Guest
Due to our fallen condition, it must be said, for some, even if absolute proofs were laid out before them they would not believe. Faith is a gift of God. We either accept it or we don’t. Many want the parts that make sense to them–using nothing but their own human reasoning, which is not faith, and others only want what makes them comfortable, again, which is a lack of faith. Absolute trust in God comes through surrender, an act of humility in which we acknowledge that some things are above our understanding, but that doesn’t make them unreasonable, only mysteries.
As our Pope Francis has said: “Faith is not a light which scatters all our darkness, but a lamp which guides our steps in the night and suffices for the journey.”
B
Brendan_64
Guest
Absolute trust in God comes through surrender, an act of humility in which we acknowledge that some things are above our understanding, but that doesn’t make them unreasonable, only mysteries.
L
Lapey
Guest
I’m very sorry if you feel this was aimed at other denominations, I am truly talking of some “progressive” ideas within Mother Church where I call home. If these abominations become accepted in the Catholic Church I will be running.
The last paragraph is not nasty, unless you feel these topics of sin which I bring up are acceptable; I highly doubt you believe that.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Speak for yourself!
D
DoGodsBidding
Guest
Yes, I am absolutely sure that Catholicism is true
DGB
DGB
C
Contarini
Guest
I’m very sorry. Frequently folks on this forum will bring up the fact that I’m still Episcopalian as a way of attacking my ideas when it really isn’t relevant to what is being discussed. I misunderstood you and I apologize.
Edwin
F
frobert
Guest
Are you are saying that if the CC does something that you deem inappropriate then you would no longer believe that it is the one true church and find another religion?
If that is so then how is it that different from many former Catholics who left the church when they felt neglected and marginalized, let’s say for example, gay Catholics and divorced Catholics?
F
frobert
Guest
I wonder if there is a difference between what you call ‘certitude’ and faith. As Catholics we accept what the church teaching on faith, in effect we are certain because of our faith. I believe that this can become a crisis of faith when a church tells us that if you have doubt you have lost your faith.
C
CatholicSoxFan
Guest
So, the evidence is good enough to take someone who is seeking to faith in God and His Church, and the faith is enough, combined with the evidence, to be certain. Did I get that right?
- Status