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Armor_of_Light
Guest
…or just Christians?
I thought it was everyone
I thought it was everyone
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Cristiano
Guest
Christians only, because of becoming adoptive children of God through the graces of the sacrament of baptism.…or just Christians?
I thought it was everyone
That does not exclude that we are all the results of his creation, that does not exclude that we are all created in his image, that does not exclude that we all have the same dignity, and that does not exclude that we all have the opportunity of eternal salvation.
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
Got it…thanks Christiano!
Does that mean that we cannot ‘fraternally correct’ everyone?
Does that mean that we cannot ‘fraternally correct’ everyone?
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Cristiano
Guest
Usually correction is for someone that knows or should know better and still chooses to do wrong, while education is for someone that does not know.
We are to correct and to spread the gospel, and that means that there is no hiding place from us speaking out.
Just because someone is not our brother in Christ that does not mean that we are exempted from treating them with brotherly love.
B
Bookcat
Guest
No such does not mean such…one is correcting in a “brotherly-way” …
B
Bookcat
Guest
Note too that one must use prudence in so correcting --and while there could be an obligation to correct such is not always the case and there is a “time to correct and a time not to”…
The Pope’s address from Last Lent went into fraternal correction:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/lent/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20111103_lent-2012_en.html
a very good read.
The Pope’s address from Last Lent went into fraternal correction:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/lent/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20111103_lent-2012_en.html
a very good read.
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
Very good indeed! Thanks for posting that…
I love that guy. His gentle voice and demeanor makes me think of Christ Himself.
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Vouthon
Guest
In 2010 Pope Benedict XVI said, “Despite the differences, Muslims are our brothers”.
Catholicism teaches that all men are in a sense by nature already children of God and are brothers and sisters of each other based upon their common origin, the Image of God in them which makes all men one and their ultimate destiny, which is the call to salvation.
This is called the brotherhood of man. This common brotherhood is purely natural, based in the natural law created by God and inherent within our human nature. Many religions have come to the awareness of this brotherhood which comes through a human birth.
Here are some “references” on this common natural brotherhood of man which Catholicism shares with other great world religions and even noble secular thinkers:
Catholicism teaches that all men are in a sense by nature already children of God and are brothers and sisters of each other based upon their common origin, the Image of God in them which makes all men one and their ultimate destiny, which is the call to salvation.
This is called the brotherhood of man. This common brotherhood is purely natural, based in the natural law created by God and inherent within our human nature. Many religions have come to the awareness of this brotherhood which comes through a human birth.
Here are some “references” on this common natural brotherhood of man which Catholicism shares with other great world religions and even noble secular thinkers:
(continued…)
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Vouthon
Guest
But this is not the special, second brotherhood of “Christ” which comes through a second divine birth - namely, baptism.
Catholicism recognises a second, distinct brotherhood which is not “natural” and which one “joins” upon the reception of baptism, becoming an adopted Son of God not by human birth but by spiritual renewal and regeneration.
This brotherhood is the unity of the Catholic Church. which is the sacrament of unity for all mankind.
It is not closed or elitest, but rather open to all. This brotherhood of the spirit exists for the common good of all men. It strengthens the natural fraternal unity of mankind by granting a second supernatural unity through the Holy Spirit which leads beyond earthly unity to eternal unity in the City of God, where God will be all in all.
God’s ultimate aim for humanity is for all human beings - who already brothers by nature - to be joined in supernatural unity within the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
To an extent this has already happened because there are people outside the Church who are actually within it. There are potentially many, many good pagans, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and even atheists who throughout the 2,000 years of Church history have become spiritually part of this supernatural brotherhood of man inagaugurated by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost without knowing it.
All human beings are somehow or other related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer from which they receive salvation even when they are outside the Church. Whether by explicit or implicit desire many non-Christians are spiritual members of the Church.
In fact some baptized Christians are not truly our brothers and sisters of Christ, since they live in grave sin and immorality, while there are wonderful non-Christians who possibly are our brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Church Fathers explained this truth:
We must hope and pray that all non-Christians are in this position.
In 1713 Pope Clement XI condemned in his dogmatic Bull “Unigenitus” the proposition of the Jensenist heretic Quesnel that “no grace is given outside the Church” just as Pope Alexander VIII had already condemned in 1690 the Jansenistic proposition of Arnauld: “Pagans, Jews, heretics, and other people of the sort, receive no influx [of grace] whatsoever from Jesus Christ”.
And so we find that one of the greatest Catholic mystics, Blessed Jan Van Ruysbroeck could write:
Catholicism recognises a second, distinct brotherhood which is not “natural” and which one “joins” upon the reception of baptism, becoming an adopted Son of God not by human birth but by spiritual renewal and regeneration.
This brotherhood is the unity of the Catholic Church. which is the sacrament of unity for all mankind.
It is not closed or elitest, but rather open to all. This brotherhood of the spirit exists for the common good of all men. It strengthens the natural fraternal unity of mankind by granting a second supernatural unity through the Holy Spirit which leads beyond earthly unity to eternal unity in the City of God, where God will be all in all.
God’s ultimate aim for humanity is for all human beings - who already brothers by nature - to be joined in supernatural unity within the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
To an extent this has already happened because there are people outside the Church who are actually within it. There are potentially many, many good pagans, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and even atheists who throughout the 2,000 years of Church history have become spiritually part of this supernatural brotherhood of man inagaugurated by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost without knowing it.
All human beings are somehow or other related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer from which they receive salvation even when they are outside the Church. Whether by explicit or implicit desire many non-Christians are spiritual members of the Church.
In fact some baptized Christians are not truly our brothers and sisters of Christ, since they live in grave sin and immorality, while there are wonderful non-Christians who possibly are our brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Church Fathers explained this truth:
I’m going to quote from an ultra-traditionalist Catholic authority, the founder of SSPX - a branch of traditional Catholicism that was excommunicated from the Church in the 70s for its extreme views and is now, slowly, being welcomed back again although with qualifications:
These non-Christians of goodwill - who are known to God if not to us - are our supernatural brothers in the bond of the Holy Spirit, as well as our natural brothers.
We must hope and pray that all non-Christians are in this position.
In 1713 Pope Clement XI condemned in his dogmatic Bull “Unigenitus” the proposition of the Jensenist heretic Quesnel that “no grace is given outside the Church” just as Pope Alexander VIII had already condemned in 1690 the Jansenistic proposition of Arnauld: “Pagans, Jews, heretics, and other people of the sort, receive no influx [of grace] whatsoever from Jesus Christ”.
And so we find that one of the greatest Catholic mystics, Blessed Jan Van Ruysbroeck could write:
In sum:
- We are all natural brothers and sisters
- All men are called to supernatural brotherhood in Christ within the bosom of the Catholic Church
- Simply because a person is not a bodily member of Holy Mother Church does not mean that they are not within her spiritually; just as those who are bodily members might not be spiritually joined to her anymore.
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Bookcat
Guest
I will note though that yes while one can call others who are not Christians “brothers” in very real senses-- there has been and is a very particular meaning of “brother” within the Church …and among Christians (See ignatius.com/Products/MCB-P/meaning-of-christian-brotherhood.aspx)
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Vouthon
Guest
Pope Benedict’s book on Brotherhood within the Church, written when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, is of great help in understanding the importance of Christian Brotherhood in the supernatural bond of the Holy Spirit through baptism
I have read it.Its important to understand the common, natural brotherhood of the human race as well, though and not confuse this doctrine with Christian Brotherhood - and also to factor in the idea of non-Christians being baptised by implicit desire, which at least in God’s eyes widens the scope of supernatural brotherhood and has important ramifications for understanding this doctrine. Its also important to note that Catholics believe in treating everyone equally and being compassionate to all without partiality, as the Christians did when severe plagues hit Rome during the second century AD - when they nursed sick pagans abandoned by their fellow pagans at personal risk to their own survival.
This is necause Christian charity is non-exclusive and non-discriminatory: it embraces all people, even one’s own enemies as the mystic Johannes Tauler explained:
Thanks for bringing it up!
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Vouthon
Guest
I think that you have forgotten about, misunderstood or are not aware of the Catholic Church’s teachings on the natural, God-given, inherent brotherhood of mankind according to the natural moral law which upholds the unity of the human race and demands that all men love each other as members of one family. This is the rationale for brotherly love.Christians only, because of becoming adoptive children of God through the graces of the sacrament of baptism…
Usually correction is for someone that knows or should know better and still chooses to do wrong, while education is for someone that does not know.
We are to correct and to spread the gospel, and that means that there is no hiding place from us speaking out.
Just because someone is not our brother in Christ that does not mean that we are exempted from treating them with brotherly love.
This is distinct from supernatural brotherhood in Christ through baptism which does not nullify natural brotherhood but strengthens and perfects it since Christian brotherhood endures for all eternity in heaven, whereas natural brotherhood is earthly and finds its fulfilment in the supernatural fraternal unity of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Before he was Cardinal…tis a rather old bookPope Benedict’s book on Brotherhood within the Church, written when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, is of great help in understanding the importance of Christian Brotherhood in the supernatural bond of the Holy Spirit through baptism
Its important to understand the common, natural brotherhood of the human race as well, though and not confuse this doctrine with Christian Brotherhood - and also to factor in the idea of non-Christians being baptised by implicit desire, which at least in God’s eyes widens the scope of supernatural brotherhood and has important ramifications for understanding this doctrine. Its also important to note that Catholics believe in treating everyone equally and being compassionate to all without partiality, as the Christians did when severe plagues hit Rome during the second century AD - when they nursed sick pagans abandoned by their fellow pagans at personal risk to their own survival.
!
Yes --and we are exhorted to a particular love of the Christian Brothers
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
Thanks for your informed points…I think that you have forgotten about, misunderstood or are not aware of the Catholic Church’s teachings on the natural, God-given, inherent brotherhood of mankind according to the natural moral law which upholds the unity of the human race and demands that all men love each other as members of one family. This is the rationale for brotherly love.
This is distinct from supernatural brotherhood in Christ through baptism which does not nullify natural brotherhood but strengthens and perfects it since Christian brotherhood endures for all eternity in heaven, whereas natural brotherhood is earthly and finds its fulfilment in the supernatural fraternal unity of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I was asking the question originally to determine who it is proper to offer ‘fraternal correction’ in the catholic sense. Can we offer it to everyone by virtue of our human brotherhood, or just Christians by virtue of our brotherhood in Christ?
Thanks again, dear brother.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Everyone…
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Vouthon
Guest
My dear brother/sister Armour
Does not Holy Mother Church address her teaching encyclicals to “all men of goodwill”? The Catholic Church throughout history has critiqued and corrected all manner of human societies, ideologies and peoples beginning with the Roman Empire up to now be they pagan or Christian.
I thus think that based upon her example it is our duty to seek to fraternally correct anyone we believe to be in need of advice and our guidance, irrespective of religion.
Pope Pius IX made this quite clear in the concluding section of one of my quotes above, which I shortened and this is the relevant part:
Hope that helps!
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Vouthon
Guest
Really?Before he was Cardinal…tis a rather old book
Yes --and we are exhorted to a particular love of the Christian Brothers
My copy has a picture of him with a cardinal’s hat and I assumed that he had wrote it while Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He was an excellent writer and thinker even back then! Impressive.
I believe that the young Pope in this book (if I recall correctly) was speaking against good intentioned but misled enlightenment notions of a universal brotherhood of man which are oriented towards a kind of secular, earthly messianism in which there is no place for the necessity and centrality of the Ark of Salvation, the Catholic Church whom all human beings are called to join.
The book is thus to be interpreted in that context and in view of that error.
Regardless, its an excellent book I agree.
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
I was called to task on another thread for suggesting that we should / must offer fraternal correction to all people.Really?
My copy has a picture of him with a cardinal’s hat and I assumed that he had wrote it while Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Regardless, its an excellent book I agree.
Thanks for the book suggestion, too. I have not read any of Cardinal Ratzinger’s or Pope Benedict 16…I’m still working on JPII!
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Vouthon
Guest
Well, the moral of the story is: stick to your guns
Blessed JPII I love him and his vast armada of talks and encyclicals.
Anything by Pope Benedict XVI from any part of his life is just sublime and spiritually/intellectually nourishing.
I heartily encourage you to read also encyclicals and talks by Blessed Pope John XXIII, Venerable Pope Pius XII and Pope Benedict XV. I have found them all particularly illuminating.
One of my fav’s is “Mater Magistra” by Pope John XXIII and Pope Pius XII’s talks range from almost every subject conceivable from federalism to the atomic bomb to…you name it!
And you must check out Pope Paul VI’s addresses on the “Civilisation of Love”. They are incredible!
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes as before being Cardinal as I recall.Really?
My copy has a picture of him with a cardinal’s hat and I assumed that he had wrote it while Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He was an excellent writer and thinker even back then! Impressive.
I believe that the young Pope in this book (if I recall correctly) was speaking against good intentioned but misled enlightenment notions of a universal brotherhood of man which are oriented towards a kind of secular, earthly messianism in which there is no place for the necessity and centrality of the Ark of Salvation, the Catholic Church whom all human beings are called to join.
The book is thus to be interpreted in that context and in view of that error.
Regardless, its an excellent book I agree.
He covers a good deal there.
The book is one to be savored --such a wonderful text.
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