Are we attacking the wrong sola scriptura?

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michaelp:
Too all of you: What if I posted this quote concerning you all? What if I called someone “stupid”? I would be called a Catholic hater and be attacked left and right. Why doesn’t anyone correct this kind of rhetoric?

Michael
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I didn’t call you stupid, Michael. I called you willfully ignorant. And that’s true.

You introduce arguments like “who interprets the Magisterium” once, and that’s understandable. And we explain the Magesterium to you.

But then a bit later, you come back with the same nonsensical proposition – and THAT is willful ignorance.
 
vern humphrey:
I didn’t call you stupid, Michael. I called you willfully ignorant. And that’s true.

You introduce arguments like “who interprets the Magisterium” once, and that’s understandable. And we explain the Magesterium to you.

But then a bit later, you come back with the same nonsensical proposition – and THAT is willful ignorance.
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Not really Vern. You are supposing that the Magisterium question was answered simply because you and others who already have their mind made up believe it was. I fully understand what the Magisterium is, but I disagree with the accertation that it does not have to be interpreted. It was a light hearted statement that maybe should not have been made. But I have the right to disagree without your ad homs coming to judge my motivations for disagreement.

Also, how else would anyone interpret that quote than to say that you are calling me stupid.
“Stupidity is exasperating. Willful ignorance is bulletproof.”
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Either the quote was in reference to me and I am the one who is accused of “stupidity” or it was an arbitrary quote that was misplaced. Maybe you meant only the last half, and the first half was over the top. But you should have only included the last half and called me “ignorant” (not much better). Either way, this type of rhetoric does not help, but hinders discussions (no winks, no smilies).

Michael
 
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michaelp:
Not really Vern. You are supposing that the Magisterium question was answered simply because you and others who already have their mind made up believe it was. I fully understand what the Magisterium is, but I disagree with the accertation that it does not have to be interpreted. It was a light hearted statement that maybe should not have been made. But I have the right to disagree without your ad homs coming to judge my motivations for disagreement.
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If you say the Magisterium has to be interpreted, you don’t understand what the Magisterium is.

And your lack of understanding is willful – the Magesterium is a Catholic concept. It is not what you persist in saying it is – you are trying to force your concept on the Catholic Church, and then attacking the Church for that concept.
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michaelp:
Also, how else would anyone interpret that quote than to say that you are calling me stupid.
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Anyone else would interpret it as saying you are willfully ignorant/.
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michaelp:
Either the quote was in reference to me and I am the one who is accused of “stupidity” or it was an arbitrary quote that was misplaced. Maybe you meant only the last half, and the first half was over the top. But you should have only included the last half and called me “ignorant” (not much better). Either way, this type of rhetoric does not help, but hinders discussions (no winks, no smilies).

Michael
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Actually, this diatribe of yours proves my point – you persist in claiming the quote means what it clearly does not mean. That’s Wiliful Ignorance.

It’s also called "playing the fool."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
If you say the Magisterium has to be interpreted, you don’t understand what the Magisterium is.

And your lack of understanding is willful – the Magesterium is a Catholic concept. It is not what you persist in saying it is – you are trying to force your concept on the Catholic Church, and then attacking the Church for that concept.
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Vern, if someone disagrees with you it does not mean that they are automatically wrong. You do not necessarily have all the right information. If you think you do, then you need to stay out of discussions, since discussion require at least two. I happen to understand exactly what the Magistirium is (it is not that hard) and believe that all information must be interpreted by definitions of the rule of aquisition of knowledge. You may disagree, but go to the thread that I started on this and disagree. You can discuss there.
Actually, this diatribe of yours proves my point – you persist in claiming the quote means what it clearly does not mean. That’s Wiliful Ignorance.

It’s also called "playing the fool."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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I guess that this is all that needs to be said on this Vern. You have now called me ignorant, stupid, and a fool. Think about that.

I also suggest that we do not use this thread anymore for this. You ought to start a new thread to carry on the same theme. You could call it . . . “Let’s all attack Michael since he does not disagree with us even though he has the right information. He is therefore stupid, ignorant, and foolish. Praise God”

Michael

Michael
 
vern humphrey:
Actually, this diatribe of yours proves my point – you persist in claiming the quote means what it clearly does not mean. That’s Wiliful Ignorance.
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Hi Vern,

Any future discourse I may have had with michaelp ended when I read some of his responses to discussions on the Real Presence. He insinuates cannibalism and makes condescending implications in reference to bowel movements. This comes from a very dark place. It is not michaelp that writes these insults against the Holy Spirit. It is something very dark and angry speaking through him. Forgive him for he knows not what he says.

**Matthew 10:14 **

And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.
 
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michaelp:
Vern, if someone disagrees with you it does not mean that they are automatically wrong. You do not necessarily have all the right information. If you think you do, then you need to stay out of discussions, since discussion require at least two. I happen to understand exactly what the Magistirium is (it is not that hard) and believe that all information must be interpreted by definitions of the rule of aquisition of knowledge. You may disagree, but go to the thread that I started on this and disagree. You can discuss there.
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The Magesterium is a Catholic concept, and it is not what you persist in saying it is – you are trying to force your concept on the Catholic Church, and then attacking the Church for that concept.

Doing it once is simple ignorance – and that 's no disgrace. Everyone is ignorant in some areas.

Doing it over and over again is Willful Ignorance, or playing the fool.
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michaelp:
I guess that this is all that needs to be said on this Vern. You have now called me ignorant, stupid, and a fool. Think about that.
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No, I’ve told you more than once – I have not called you stupid. I have said you are Willfully Ignorant, and you play the fool.

And simply by persisting in this argument, you prove me right.
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michaelp:
I also suggest that we do not use this thread anymore for this. You ought to start a new thread to carry on the same theme. You could call it . . . “Let’s all attack Michael since he does not disagree with us even though he has the right information. He is therefore stupid, ignorant, and foolish. Praise God”

Michael

Michael
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I suggest you play fair – that you do not try to force upon Catholics your idea of what Catholic institutions are – and them condeming us for them.
 
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Mickey:
Hi Vern,

Any future discourse I may have had with michaelp ended when I read some of his responses to discussions on the Real Presence. He insinuates cannibalism and makes condescending implications in reference to bowel movements. This comes from a very dark place. It is not michaelp that writes these insults against the Holy Spirit. It is something very dark and angry speaking through him. Forgive him for he knows not what he says.

**Matthew 10:14 **

And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.
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Michael likes to play Silly Buggers, and gets all huffy when he’d found out.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
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michaelp:
Felicity, you don’t have to become angry just because I am not convinced of most of the arguments. I could say the same thing about you, but I would never accuse anyone of such a thing. You have become VERY uncharitable all of the sudden and I don’t know why.
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What gives you the impression I’m “angry”? Because I hold your feet to the fire? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_39.gif Anger implies that I question in some way the veracity of my own arguements–that I feel there is a threat–I do not–and I am not angry.
:hmmm:(this is me just thinking out loud…)😉
I am being firm, as I have seen others be with you…do you think because I am a woman and I insist on being firm in my opinions, that somehow that must mean I’m angry?:hmmm:

Furthermore–I guess you have not read some of my more gentle posts to you. I have said all along that I am perhaps assertively defending my Church’s position, while at the same time trying to ascertain the logic and reason behind why you believe the way you do. I have pledged to pray for you and I do. I have told you that I am worried about your immortal soul, and I am. I have said that should you ever decide that the Truth is in the Catholic Church–no one will deride you for serving God so well in the Evangelical church, but rather we will rejoice at our brother receiving his full inheritance.

Correcting error is not UN-charitable–It is the MOST charitable thing to do. I have been forthcoming and willing to answer every one of your questions and I merely ask that you do the same. Because I choose to have a little force behind my words does not mean that I am angry–it simply means that I believe what I say and I mean it.
But when the rhetoric turns to attack …then the discussion necessarily comes to a conclusion.
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I have NEVER attacked you–I challenge you to find a single “attack” that has been issued from me in your direction–IT DOESN’T EXIST. I would appreciate it if you take that back.

And lastly, you do not have to criticize others to make your point to me.
 
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michaelp:
Felicity, you don’t have to become angry just because I am not convinced of most of the arguments. I could say the same thing about you, but I would never accuse anyone of such a thing. You have become VERY uncharitable all of the sudden and I don’t know why. Ani always has, but you have jumped on her train.

You must understand that their are true disagreements and there will continue to be. I don’t get upset because you don’t come to believe the way that I do. I just leave it in God’s hands and try to be gracious. But when the rhetoric turns to attack (as it always it with Ani–for that is all she seems to have), then the discussion necessarily comes to a conclusion.

I don’t have anything against you. I happen to disagree very strongly with your beliefs, but that is life. If you don’t want to talk to be about it in a real and charitable manner, fine. Be like Ani and alienate yourself from such discussion. But I suggest that you llok to Phil, Pax, Dennis, and Lisa and learn from them how to converse with people with whom you disagee, don’t follow Ani.

Michael
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Hello,Michael:) I am sorry that you disagree strongly with our beliefs,we are praying about that.St,Felicity I am sure wasn’t meaning to attack you,she PM’d me;) We have great love for you.Sometimes we get passionate about our faith as well,as do you sometimes.I can’t necessarily speak for Ani but Ani is probably passionate too:) Because of our love for you Michael we sometimes get sad,because we would love for you to have the fulness of faith,and get frustrated because we are mere creatures and can only do what creatures can do.The Holy Spirit is the only way that your understanding can take root.We know you love Jesus, we long for you to be as intamate as you can this side of heaven,with the 7 sacraments and the fulness of the faith.You aren’t at that point yet,but you are here and we are thankful for that.God Bless You
PS Please keep an open mind and never make assumptions that your interpretations are infallible;)
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Please keep an open mind and never make assumptions that your interpretations are infallible.
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Nor try to interpret the Magisterium. 😉
 
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