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Nanotwerp
Guest
Recent theories have been going that people in the Catholic Church are Jews. Since Peter The Apostle was Jewish, do we count as jews too?
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RosslynV
Guest
Yes we are in the sense that Catholics practice our faith under the new covenant which has fulfilled the old covenant under the Jews.
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Richard_White
Guest
I wouldn’t say that in so many words. But, if you are referring to the fact and the Truth that we, as Catholics, are the new Chosen People of God, then yes, we are! 
May God bless you all!
May God bless you all!
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TimothyH
Guest
Catholics are not Jews. We are Christians, not Jews.
Jews do not believe that the messiah has yet come. Christians believe that the messiah has come, walked out of his own grave, and will return at the end of time. You cannot believe both.
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15)
I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I am not Jewish. I am Christian. I am Catholic.
-Tim-
Jews do not believe that the messiah has yet come. Christians believe that the messiah has come, walked out of his own grave, and will return at the end of time. You cannot believe both.
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15)
I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I am not Jewish. I am Christian. I am Catholic.
-Tim-
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Richard_White
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In light of this post, I want to clarify my position. Do NOT say that particular thing in regard to “new Jews” or whatever you’r thinking. It is absolutely false and MUST BE AVOIDED. We, and I especially, are Catholic and Catholic alone. Amen. Absolutely nothing else.
However, I think I understand what you are attempting to say. Like I said before, we, as Catholics are the true and only Chosen People of God. The Jews were this during the Old Testament, but that was only temporary. It was always meant to be us Catholics alone, and that is obviously the way it is right now!
So, again, I say that I am a Catholic alone, living in the Light, the Love, and the company of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Three Divine Persons in the One and only God. Amen. Alleluia!
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TheWiseMan
Guest
No, we cannot be the new Jews. We can’t be because the Jews don’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
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StGerardMajella
Guest
Technically, this is not wholly correct. There are Jews that do believe that Jesus was the Messiah. First and foremost, there are the apostles who were Jewish, and the earliest followers of Christ were Jewish.
Today, in our modern times, we have Hebrew Catholics who are ethnically Jewish and still practice some of the Jewish religious practices, such as Passover, etc. They are in fully communion with the Church. There is also a rather large Messianic Jewish population in Israel that believes Christ was the Messiah, although these organizations are not typically considered to be in communion with the Church. And, in the Catholic Church, there are ethnic Jews that have converted to Catholicism.
In the Tridentine Rite, you can quite clearly recognize that most of the prayers originate from Judaism.
An interesting experiment: Take a Catholic Roman Missal, and compare the prayers with the Jewish Siddur (prayer book).
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TimothyH
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What you are talking about is supercessionism and it is not Catholic teaching.In light of this post, I want to clarify my position. Do NOT say that particular thing in regard to “new Jews” or whatever you’r thinking. It is absolutely false and MUST BE AVOIDED. We, and I especially, are Catholic and Catholic alone. Amen. Absolutely nothing else.
However, I think I understand what you are attempting to say. Like I said before, we, as Catholics are the true and only Chosen People of God. The Jews were this during the Old Testament, but that was only temporary. It was always meant to be us Catholics alone, and that is obviously the way it is right now!
So, again, I say that I am a Catholic alone, living in the Light, the Love, and the company of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Three Divine Persons in the One and only God. Amen. Alleluia!
Supercessionism is replacement theology - that the Jews are no longer God’s people, that the covenants with Abraham and David are void and that the Jews are all but irrelevant, replaced by Christians. There are several denominations which teach supercessionism including the Presbyterian Church USA to the point of anti-semitism and boycotts against Israel but it is not Catholic theology.
The Church does not replace Israel or the Jews.
The Church very clearly teaches that God chose the Jews first. They are the original hearers of God’s word. The Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets - we even say that in the creed. The promises God made to the Jews can never be taken away. Paul is very clear on this in his letters to the Churches in the New Testament.
Supercessionism is to be rejected by Catholics.
Pope Francis further warned us about triumphalism, thinking that we are special because we are Catholic. Our faith is a gift, revealed to us by God through his kindness. If it wasn’t for his gift we wouldn’t have it. We have not earned it and don’t even deserve it, and would know anything about it had he not revealed it to us.
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runningdude
Guest
The Jews are a distinct nation, that still exist to this day. Saint Paul opened Christianity to all nations, not exclusively the Jews.
Unless your mother is Jewish, you are not a Jew. It is really that simple.
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Richard_White
Guest
Simply put, you’re wrong. Read this article by a Catholic priest:
www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=9168
It’s pretty self-explanatory.
I know that our Catholic faith is a gift from God. I thank God for allowing mw to be born to a Catholic mother and to to be baptized as an infant, taken to Mass regularly, to receive Jesus in First Holy Comunion (and, of course, through to now and forever), to be able to go to Confession, to have received my Confirmation, to go to a Catholic school (since pre-K), and to live in a Catholic household with a firm and important faith (God is number 1 in my life and my mother’s)! I’m thankful especially that my mother was able to raise me Catholic and that we are able to live good, Catholic lives, because of the fact that my dad is actually Jewish (non-practicing, though [plus, thankfully, he was actually baptized out in California when he was younger and believes in Jesus, unforntunately he never told anyone but me and my mom, but I thank God that this is true…I don’t know which Christian denomination he went to for it, but it was most likely valid, most of them are…]).
So, don’t ever say that I’m not thankful to God for my Catholic faith, which I am blessed by God to have, because I very much am thankful.
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runningdude
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This is incorrect. The Old Covenant was open to only Jews. The New Testament is open to both Jews and Gentiles. The Covenants serve different purposes.
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manualman
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First, define your vocabulary. The old testament doesn’t talk about a Jewish people. It talks about Israel. The Israelites aren’t referred to as Jews until the NT. So don’t conflate the words Israelite and Jew. To make the waters even muddier, today’s definition of Jewish has as much to do with ethnicity as religion. I’ve met several atheists who identify themselves as Jewish.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the coming of Christ “superceded” the old covenant. It FULFILLED it. By fulfilling the covenant, Christ made it possible for all of humanity to become part of “God’s chosen people.”
So I’d say it’s better to say that both Christians and Jews today are descendants of Israel. Jews are those people of the covenant who tragically did not recognize Jesus as Messiah. Christians are the spiritual descendants of those who did. Interestingly, historical data suggest that most of the Jews actually did convert. Jewish population of the Roman empire at the time of Christ was about 10 percent. Fast forward a couple centuries after that and it’s more like 1 percent. Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in a war in that time period, but the numbers still don’t add up without massive numbers of Jews acknowledging Christ as Messiah and assimilating into the evolving church.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the coming of Christ “superceded” the old covenant. It FULFILLED it. By fulfilling the covenant, Christ made it possible for all of humanity to become part of “God’s chosen people.”
So I’d say it’s better to say that both Christians and Jews today are descendants of Israel. Jews are those people of the covenant who tragically did not recognize Jesus as Messiah. Christians are the spiritual descendants of those who did. Interestingly, historical data suggest that most of the Jews actually did convert. Jewish population of the Roman empire at the time of Christ was about 10 percent. Fast forward a couple centuries after that and it’s more like 1 percent. Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in a war in that time period, but the numbers still don’t add up without massive numbers of Jews acknowledging Christ as Messiah and assimilating into the evolving church.
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Psalitte
Guest
Jewish or not, the Church is the true Israel, and the successor to the Israel of the Old Testament, whether or not a secular state has decided to call itself that since 1948.
And as Rosslyn pointed out we are the continuation of the faith found in the Old Testament.
And as Rosslyn pointed out we are the continuation of the faith found in the Old Testament.
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TimothyH
Guest
Y’all should humble yourself for a few minutes, and stand in awe when you have an opportunity to speak with a devout Jew - someone who follows the original revelation of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.
They follow the religion of Moses who spoke with God face to face. They received the Law and the Ark and God himself led them through the Red Sea and through the desert as a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. These things may not have been the fullness of God’s plan, but they are not fake nor simply shadows of things to come. They were real and God meant every word he ever spoke through any of those we read about in the Old Testament.
And there are many Jews in heaven already. Moses, David, Samuel, Daniel and Job and Ruth are all Catholic Saints. Abraham’s memorial is October 9. Elijah the Jew was taken to heaven in flaming chariot. His memorial is July 20 and the entire Carmelite order venerates his memory.
-Tim-
They follow the religion of Moses who spoke with God face to face. They received the Law and the Ark and God himself led them through the Red Sea and through the desert as a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. These things may not have been the fullness of God’s plan, but they are not fake nor simply shadows of things to come. They were real and God meant every word he ever spoke through any of those we read about in the Old Testament.
And there are many Jews in heaven already. Moses, David, Samuel, Daniel and Job and Ruth are all Catholic Saints. Abraham’s memorial is October 9. Elijah the Jew was taken to heaven in flaming chariot. His memorial is July 20 and the entire Carmelite order venerates his memory.
-Tim-
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OraLabora
Guest
Tim thanks for this. Beautifully put.
Something I would hope anyone praying the Liturgy of the Hours would realize. Every year in the lectionary for the Office of Readings we go through the story of God’s relationship with Israel. Through the reading of psalms in the morning and evening, we are participating in the continuation of a noble Jewish tradition.
God does not break the deal that He made with Jewish people. He offered them a better deal, which some have refused, but He doesn’t break the original deal. If He did, faith would be worth no more than a puff of hot air… and Hope would evaporate with it.
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plainatheart71
Guest
Thank you TimH for what you posted. You are correct. Replacement theology is a heresy and is not taught by the Church. If it is then I am part of a Church that is not the one founded by Jesus, our Jewish Messiah.
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Psalitte
Guest
What in the world, so, Jew’s “need not convert to Catholic Church” ???
I’m confused. Are they saved, even though they rejected Christ?
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runningdude
Guest
That isn’t quite true. The Covenant was never a “deal”, but in fact a sacred burden. Following the death of Christ, the Jews are in fact released from the Covenant, which was fulfilled.
This is controversial, but in older versions of the Mass, on Good Friday, the observation of the Death our Lord, there used to be a prayer for the modern Jews, that they may come to know Christ and learn of their release from the Old Covenant. This prayer was omitted from current versions to help improve Jewish-Christian relations.
God released the Jews from the heavy burden of the Law. The current Jews will always hold a special place in God’s heart, but there is no parallel set of Covenants still in force.
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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Can we be considered Jewish if we call Mary “Our Blessed Mother” ?
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