Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here?

[AquinasXVI]

Alfie:

I mean this with all the sincerity and altruism…please, please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church before you write to us what you think we believe. Your assessment of our faith on many occasions is incomplete and to be honest, if what you think we believe is exactly what we believe, I wouldn’t be Catholic either.

And after you’ve read it and have a problem with it, then by all means, you are more than welcome to make comments and complaints that you see fit and illuminate to us where our orthodox faith of 2000 years have gone wrong.

I know this is coming off rough, for that I apologize. You are a brother to us and for our dialog to make any semblance to sense we must at least talk about the same thing not correct each other’s differences in semantics in an endless stream of posts.

Thank you.

in XT.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?

Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible , but you know what I mean), etc…

Please pass on your thoughts.

Protestant == anti-Catholic; whatever “anti-Catholic” may mean.​

I think Protestants are treated badly - there’s a lot of mockery of (say) Sola Scriptura: but precious little attempt to understand that particular idea or any others with any degree of intelligent sympathy, AFAICS

If such ideas are such obvious and utter rubbish - how come that Protestants (whom it is reasonable to assume are not all mentally retarded half-wits) don’t find it so ?

What happened to Vatican II’s directions on dialogue between Catholics and others ?

An apologetic that attacks what is not believed, is a waste of time and energy - quite apart from being likely to inflame those whose ideas are misrepresented. To convince people, one has to start by winning them over: not by making it clear that one has nothing but utter contempt for their most heartfelt beliefs.

As to making “a good case against Catholics” - a case is as convincing as one is prepared to find it, or is able to. Which is why some people are convinced by the Bible Code, and why others are convinced by the theological claoims of this or that Christian body or religion or other ideology. And why even valid criticisms of a religion or ideology will get no hearing from those unwilling to consider the possibility that they are rightly made and valid. ##

 

[adnauseum]

We must be careful to understand the true dynamics of a message forum. These are NOT one-to-one conversations, and so should not be bound by the social rules of one-to-one conversation.

In a private, one-to-one, one should of course be cordial. But a forum is not one-to-one. It’s a hybrid communication that is at once personal and social, private, but also public like graffiti, which is aimed at a wide audience and remains a public record.

If you met Larry Flynt privately, you absolutely owe him dignified and respectful treatment as a human being. But you are not required to allow his pornography in your house, and you have no obligation to defend his right to publish it. And you are fully within your rights to call it what it is.

To the person, caritas; but to a message deposited into the public domain, it is always our right, and even obligation, to issue a firm counterattack so that piece of doctrine, or propaganda, (or worse), does not lie there like graffiti looking one shred more credible than it is.

Please don’t confuse the obligation toward charity with our right to defend the public record vigorously, even to the point of calling nonsense exactly what it is.

 

[Zooey]

Alfie:

But the more times you go to mass the shorter time you will spend in purgatory…right? If so, than that is works.

But this just flat out is not true! This is NOT Catholic teaching.
My guess (& it is only a guess, but I have seen enough to have a pretty good idea) is that this information came from someone like Gendron or White…Someone that hates Catholics, & is determined to make the whole CC look bad.
These sort of folks, they pretty much invent whatever is needed, to make the CC look bad. Or they will pull something so far out of context, that the way they apply a statement has no bearing on what it originally meant at all.
Probably the worst thing I see in anti-Catholics, is the need to tell outright lies, if they can’t find anything to criticize. If there is nothing there, they make something up.
I have been at this site for a long time now (nearly a year), & I have not seen anything anywhere near like the treatment that I have seen at protestant sites. I have yet to find any of those that will let a real exchange of views go on…Disagree, & you get jumped on.

But, Alfie, I am saddened that this kind of fiction (re: purgatory & masses) is still in people’s minds that come here. For sure, there is nothing like that being said here. This is a great place to come to find out what:yup: Catholics really believe, as opposed to what :nope: somebody says that Catholics believe…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Alfie:

But the more times you go to mass the shorter time you will spend in purgatory…right? If so, than that is works.

What a curious notion - that may be what the idea suggests, but it is certainly a distortion. It’s a complete misunderstanding: though not perhaps an unnatural one, given the strong tendency to legalism in Catholicism.​

 

[Della]

I think Protestants are treated badly - there’s a lot of mockery of (say) Sola Scriptura: but precious little attempt to understand that particular idea or any others with any degree of intelligent sympathy.

If you really think that people who once held firmly to OSAS have no understanding of since becoming Catholic you have got to be kidding. And why should we have “sympathy” for nonsense? It’s a false gospel that needs to be exposed not held up for further examination as if it was in any way viable as truth.

 

[tjmiller]

The more times one goes to Mass - capital M, please - the longer one may be in Purgatory, depending upon one’s motives, intent, and moral fitness. Maybe even Hell.

 

[bones_IV]

Della:

If you really think that people who once held firmly to OSAS have no understanding of since becoming Catholic you have got to be kidding. And why should we have “sympathy” for nonsense? It’s a false gospel that needs to be exposed not held up for further examination as if it was in any way viable as truth.

I agree.

 

[Pax]

Alfie:

What gets me is that the Catholics on this forum think that just because someone is Catholic that, that will be enough to get them into heaven. When I make comments about the Bible saying that few people will make it to heaven I get answers like “well no one knows for sure who will make it”. If the Bible states that most people will not make it to heaven than it is a safe bet to say that the majority of people from any Christian denomination won’t make it. You make a big deal over infant baptism. Why? When it is by “Faith” we are saved. The Bible can’t be any more clear about what saves someone. You are like the Jews… you have a form of godliness but deny the truth. In fact I think it was Mike Gendron who pointed out that there are 150 references in the Bible about Salvation through faith and only 3 that mention baptism… but given a choice most people will choose the Catholic religion over the truth which is is only natural… because it is a ruse.

I can come up with ten or eleven verses concerning baptism that relate to salvation. Moreover, even if there were only one verse that said that baptism saves, then that one verse contradicts sola fide. Of course we can come up with tons of verses that deny salvation by faith “alone” without the verses on baptism. I will give you but one that I find Protestants constantly over looking:

Rom. 8:24
For we are saved by hope:

Now back to the topic of this thread.

I do not believe that we are too hard on Protestants in explaining and defending the faith. That having been said, I must admit that at times I have gotten irritated and in turn lost my sense of charity. At those moments, I would not say that I was too hard on my Protestant brother, but was instead unchristian toward him.

 

[Guar_Fan]

Alfie:

What I can’t understand is why some Catholics are so excited because someone converts to Catholicism. I am a Methodist but I do not have that loyalty to the Methodist church like a Catholic does to his church.

I guess it must seem strange. I know I have been puzzled by the seeming ease at which friends and relatives switch between being Methodist and Baptist and Presbyterian, etc. I get the impression (and I may be wrong) that the doctrines of a Protestant church are not important factors in deciding which church they will attend. I think most Catholics, on the other hand, would say doctrine is important. And maybe that is why some Catholics get excited over new converts.

But as others have mentioned, there are militant members in any faith community. And the destruction they bring to tolerance and dialogue should not distract the rest of us from sharing insights with one another.

 

[Ortho]

One of the fascinating things about these chat rooms is the animosity Christians feel towards other Christians. Now, they no longer kill each other over religion as in the past; secular society won’t let them. So, that’s progress.

Whenever I visit these rooms I’m reminded of the quote from somewhere that says, “See how these Christians love one another.” Well, I sure don’t see that.

 

[tjmiller]

Answer to OP:
No.

 

[exoflare]

Ortho:

One of the fascinating things about these chat rooms is the animosity Christians feel towards other Christians. Now, they no longer kill each other over religion as in the past; secular society won’t let them. So, that’s progress.

Whenever I visit these rooms I’m reminded of the quote from somewhere that says, “See how these Christians love one another.” Well, I sure don’t see that.

We don’t need permission from you merely to debate theology. If you consider this “animosity” that’s your problem.

 

[Ortho]

exoflare:

We don’t need permission from you merely to debate theology. If you consider this “animosity” that’s your problem.

See how these Christians love one another?

Don’t fret. You have my permission.

I see very little theological debate. There is much more name calling, sarcasm, ad hominem, assertions, and fabrication than theological debate.

 

[exoflare]

Ortho:

See how these Christians love one another?

I guess that’s supposed to be another underhanded comment. Apparently you are immune to your own standards of behavior.

Ortho:

I see very little theological debate. There is much more name calling, sarcasm, ad hominem, assertions, and fabrication than theological debate.

But if the moderators did something about this and kicked you off, would you really like it?

 

[Ortho]

exoflare:

I guess that’s supposed to be another underhanded comment. Apparently you are immune to your own standards of behavior.

But if the moderators did something about this and kicked you off, would you really like it?

Like most people, my high standards apply only to others.

Do you think the moderators agree with me? I’m flattered.

 

[exoflare]

Ortho:

Like most people, my high standards apply only to others.

Okay, so then we’ve clarified that you’re here just to tear everybody else down. At least people can be clear where you stand from now on.

 

[tjmiller]

OK, grow up, people.
Take a deep breath.
Do something else for a while.
Watch the Broncos beat the snot out of the Steelers tomorrow…

 

[Ortho]

exoflare:

Okay, so then we’ve clarified that you’re here just to tear everybody else down. At least people can be clear where you stand from now on.

Clarity is in the mind of the beholder.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Della:

If you really think that people who once held firmly to OSAS have no understanding of since becoming Catholic you have got to be kidding. And why should we have “sympathy” for nonsense? It’s a false gospel that needs to be exposed not held up for further examination as if it was in any way viable as truth.

But there is a difference between lovingly yet firmly telling someone that their belief may be a bit misguided and just brow beating them into submission (which, as we all know from personal experience, doesn’t ever work). Just think of the way you feel when a protestant comes on this board or in your face and tells you that everything you hold dear in your very soul is wrong, idiotic, lame, half the Truth, and that you are a knucklehead for believing it. What does that do to you? You bristle (and don’t deny it, we all bristle) and get ready for a throw down. It may be nonsense to you but it makes perfect sense to that other person. Beating someone up emotionally and in the spiritual sense is worse than if you were to physically do it OR even kill them. Keep this in mind.