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Libero
Guest
Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here?
YES!
YES!
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Della
Guest
If by that you mean that those who want to tell us that Catholics are all wrong about everything, so we stand up for what the Church truly teaches, then yes, we are “too hard” on them. We won’t let them remain in their ignorance and prejudice just to make them feel good about themselves. Sometimes people need to be awakened from their errors in order to shake them out of their grooves so that they can think outside the boxes in which their various denoms of the anti-Catholic sort have placed them.
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Della
Guest
Believe it or not telling the truth doesn’t mean we can’t do it in love. Besides, anyone who comes roaring in here spewing their anti-Catholic nonsense ought to be told, and told plainly, that the blatant lies they have swallowed whole and without question are exactly that. It may be they aren’t as culpable as the person who invented such lies, but in as far as they did nothing to discover the truth, they are culpable. They could at least be respectful, as many are, to say, “I don’t understand this teaching of the Catholic Church, could you please explain it to me or recommend a good resource for finding out the truth.” Those people get every kind of respect and honor from me and everyone else here. And even those who do come here with an agenda get treated far better than any Catholic would be treated on one of your side’s favorite anti-Catholic fora.But there is a difference between lovingly yet firmly telling someone that their belief may be a bit misguided and just brow beating them into submission (which, as we all know from personal experience, doesn’t ever work). Just think of the way you feel when a protestant comes on this board or in your face and tells you that everything you hold dear in your very soul is wrong, idiotic, lame, half the Truth, and that you are a knucklehead for believing it. What does that do to you? You bristle (and don’t deny it, we all bristle) and get ready for a throw down. It may be nonsense to you but it makes perfect sense to that other person. Beating someone up emotionally and in the spiritual sense is worse than if you were to physically do it OR even kill them. Keep this in mind.
And what I was addressing was the fact that contrary to what Gottle of Gear wrote, most of us here are converts who once embraced OSAS, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc. ourselves and so know all about it. We know it to be nonsense, so it is our duty to help others to see it too. Not by browbeating or insulting them but by simply telling them the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong in doing that!
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Libero
Guest
By that I mean people who choose merely to attack protestants, using unintelligent remarks and stupid comments. I also refer to the occassions when some may use the idea of being protestant in a derogatory manner, such as “Oh you are becoming a protestant”.
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Malachi4U
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:
You are right in that not all Protestants are anti-Catholic. Not all anti-Catholics are Protestant either. Some are NAZI’s some are Communists some are…
Anti-Catholics might be considered those that make money off missleading people on what Catholicism is. People that attack Catholics as the pawns of Satan during their worship service. People that hate what they want the Catholic Church to be, not what it is. Most of the Baptist sects I was in as a Protestant had the preachers at the pulpit preaching on how the pope was the anti-Christ and all the evils of the Catholic Church. I’ve seen some Baptist preachers attack the Catholic Church nearly every week with the same verbal abuse the NAZI’s gave the Jews. (Of course without the use of hostilities, just vocal abuse and lies).
I had a friend that was in the World Wide Church of God. He often told me how he is taught that the Catholics are Satans army and how the pope will head the one world government during the end times and hunt down and kill all the Christians. My wife’s Baptist aunt and cousins also believe this same thing are are taught it as well. My wifes Grandmother (Methodist) believes this but I do not blame the Methodist preachers, I think she was just raised to hate Catholics.
Someone that disagrees with Catholics is not anti-Catholic, someone that teaches or spreads the lies above is. My opinion only of course and this is NOT Church Dogma
.Here are some links that I would consider anti-Catholic:
Here
Here
Here
Here
PS. Would there even be a Seventh Day Adventist sect if they didn’t have a Catholic Church to attack? I have good friends that are SDA and though they don’t believe all their sect missleads them in but, they are taught to hate the Catholic Church nearly weekly.
Why are some churches built on so much hate, or at least spread it?
It’s OK though, Jesus told me to forgive them and I do. I hope all of you forgive them as well.
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bengal_fan
Guest
i have to disagree with you here. most catholics i know are extremely committed to helping the poor, and catholics far outnumber protestants in the mission field as well.
again i disagree. it is impossible to enter heaven without works because faith without works is dead. i know the argument of the thief on the cross, but he performed the only work he was capable of, emptying himself of all of his pride and trying to share the truth with the other thief. but any “believer” who doesn’t perform works is not truly saved.
it is because they feel they have the fullness of the Christian faith. they believe they have the entire truth while protestants and orthodox have only parts of the truth (they might be very significant and large parts but just parts none the less). if you feel you have the truth and you don’t share it with some one, you don’t truly love them. if you have the truth and some one else comes to believe it…shouldn’t you celebrate. another reason catholics get so excited is because they have a vision of the body of Christ (the church) being united once again here on earth as it should be instead of bickering with one another.
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tjmiller
Guest
It is a very exciting thing, for us Catholics in the wayfaring state as also for the Saints and the Angels in Heaven, when someone comes into the One True Church personally established by Jesus Christ Himself, endowed with the fulness of divine truth and of the means of holiness and salvation, Mother and Teacher of all churches, built upon Peter and his Successors in the Apostolic Hierarchy until the end of time!
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MusicMan
Guest
I was taught in Catholic grade school that “two wrongs don’t make a right.” I see a great deal of, “on these other ‘Christian’ posting boards they do a lot of Catholic bashing, so it’s OK for us to do the same here.” Those of you who have that attitude are WRONG. Absolutely wrong. We Catholics… we Christians, really… are called to be above that sort of thing. Didn’t Jesus teach us to love and forgive our enemies and those who hate us? Turn the other cheek?
Further, I am deeply offended with all of the, “Such-and-such faith doesn’t have valid orders so we KNOW that their communion is invalid and they don’t actually have [priests]” talk that I see in the various threads here. We don’t actually know this. Our Church has evaluated the history of these denominations, and we believe this. When we say these things in the company of Protestants, especially with the aim of belittling their faith so they convert to ours, it makes us no better than a school yard bully. A Catholic school yard bully.
If you want our separated Protestant brothers and sisters to “come home to the One True Faith,” try a little charity. Take Jesus at his word and love your neighbor. Be respectful of their faith. Maybe through your charity and respect, they will come to believe that the Catholic Church is a good religion and the one to belong to. NOBODY likes a bully. Don’t be one.
After observing 9 months of the Pontificate of His Holiness, Benedict XVI and reading his writings, I am convinced that the route of charity, love, and witness are the methods he wishes us to employ to bring unity throughout Christianity. I suspect that if he read this thread, he would agree with me about evangelization through respect and charity, not bullying about how their faith, beliefs, orders, and communion are flawed.
Further, I am deeply offended with all of the, “Such-and-such faith doesn’t have valid orders so we KNOW that their communion is invalid and they don’t actually have [priests]” talk that I see in the various threads here. We don’t actually know this. Our Church has evaluated the history of these denominations, and we believe this. When we say these things in the company of Protestants, especially with the aim of belittling their faith so they convert to ours, it makes us no better than a school yard bully. A Catholic school yard bully.
If you want our separated Protestant brothers and sisters to “come home to the One True Faith,” try a little charity. Take Jesus at his word and love your neighbor. Be respectful of their faith. Maybe through your charity and respect, they will come to believe that the Catholic Church is a good religion and the one to belong to. NOBODY likes a bully. Don’t be one.
After observing 9 months of the Pontificate of His Holiness, Benedict XVI and reading his writings, I am convinced that the route of charity, love, and witness are the methods he wishes us to employ to bring unity throughout Christianity. I suspect that if he read this thread, he would agree with me about evangelization through respect and charity, not bullying about how their faith, beliefs, orders, and communion are flawed.
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seabird3579
Guest
Yes, well it may be “works” but it is the “works” of the Holy Spirit, because it is by His grace and the Sacrifice of Christ that we grow in faith and love. And, unless “we eat his body and drink his blood, we shall not have life within us.”
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seabird3579
Guest
In fact, Della, Telling the Truth about Christ and His Church is arguebly the *Most charitable * thing someone can do. Truth, even when said with all the niceties one can muster doesn’t always feel warm and fuzzy. But we do know that the Truth, embraced humbly, will set you Free.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
Hello was just surfing checking out stuff and was attracted to the info on chick tracts, I do not like them but was sad to see even more detail on them written in the library. So decided to around your site, so next I see there is info on how to convert fundys, and states that they are in fact the opposition. well … I think it is in a section about hostile fundys so I guess I can let it slide in context it seems fine.
Then I notice this thread and my heart breaks, is everyone telling me that truly if someone is not of a particular church then they dont “get in” ?? I post at a atheistic site and one of their complaints is believers dont get along and it helps them toss Christ out the window, gives them fuel for their fire.
Why would any non believer even consider what Christ said if His people cannot agree on a meeting place.?? We are only providing another excuse for them. Im not catholic but my friend is and I occasionaly attend with her, Gods there and Hes in other churches as well, not to mention work, message boards, camping, everywhere. I submit to the thread how is it we can tie God to anywhere or anything???
Just who is going to be in Heaven if everyone else is wrong, if every side is wrong, this discourages me I cant imagine what it does to a non believer.
I hope this does not come across angry, its terribly discouraging.
Then I notice this thread and my heart breaks, is everyone telling me that truly if someone is not of a particular church then they dont “get in” ?? I post at a atheistic site and one of their complaints is believers dont get along and it helps them toss Christ out the window, gives them fuel for their fire.
Why would any non believer even consider what Christ said if His people cannot agree on a meeting place.?? We are only providing another excuse for them. Im not catholic but my friend is and I occasionaly attend with her, Gods there and Hes in other churches as well, not to mention work, message boards, camping, everywhere. I submit to the thread how is it we can tie God to anywhere or anything???
Just who is going to be in Heaven if everyone else is wrong, if every side is wrong, this discourages me I cant imagine what it does to a non believer.
I hope this does not come across angry, its terribly discouraging.
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Ignatius
Guest
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she_he
Guest
Personally I think this goes both ways and then another
yes SOMETIMES SOME of the posts are unfair to protestants.
But protestant posts are no different.
whats worse is the wars between the ranks Catholics chopping down another Catholic.
There are a lot of “judges” on these forums,Catholic and protestant.
you have to learn to recognize these posts and either ignore it.
disassemble it and see what is actually worth reading.
or you can stoop down and “fight back” which does nothing but make both sides of the fence look bad…
I say this as a Lutheran converting to Catholic.I get knocked once in a while being a Lutheran by Catholics who have no Idea anything about the Lutheran religion,they dont even stop to think about all the teachings they still hold true and dear From Martin Luther whom started the Lutheran church.
I have even been accused of being "pro abortion, pro BC, Because i am from a Protestant religion,and thats so far off its not funny.
But you know what?
I do not get any grief from the CATHOLIC church i attend or any of its members and that is what matters not what some person behind a keyboard does/says.
its actually nice at my RCIA classes when i am asked about Lutheran beliefs for comparison to Catholic beliefs,its amazing just how almost exact they really are. and yes i know there are some “wildcat” Lutheran churches that differ,
but the same holds true of Catholic churches.
also lets not forget the “posers” that stop by just to “stir up a hornet nest”
we are all Brothers in gods eyes,and none of us are perfect…
yes SOMETIMES SOME of the posts are unfair to protestants.
But protestant posts are no different.
whats worse is the wars between the ranks Catholics chopping down another Catholic.
There are a lot of “judges” on these forums,Catholic and protestant.
you have to learn to recognize these posts and either ignore it.
disassemble it and see what is actually worth reading.
or you can stoop down and “fight back” which does nothing but make both sides of the fence look bad…
I say this as a Lutheran converting to Catholic.I get knocked once in a while being a Lutheran by Catholics who have no Idea anything about the Lutheran religion,they dont even stop to think about all the teachings they still hold true and dear From Martin Luther whom started the Lutheran church.
I have even been accused of being "pro abortion, pro BC, Because i am from a Protestant religion,and thats so far off its not funny.
But you know what?
I do not get any grief from the CATHOLIC church i attend or any of its members and that is what matters not what some person behind a keyboard does/says.
its actually nice at my RCIA classes when i am asked about Lutheran beliefs for comparison to Catholic beliefs,its amazing just how almost exact they really are. and yes i know there are some “wildcat” Lutheran churches that differ,
but the same holds true of Catholic churches.
also lets not forget the “posers” that stop by just to “stir up a hornet nest”
we are all Brothers in gods eyes,and none of us are perfect…
John
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Church_Militant
Guest
This is just one more excellent example of the glaring fact that you do not know what you are talking about concerning the Catholic faith. This may be your (very faulty!) understanding of what we believe, but it is not what Catholics believe.
Infant baptism is off-topic, as is your remarks about “faith alone” saving us.
Gendron is messed up in a big way then. Baptism refrences and Baptize and Baptized Yet he would never tell you that the only verse in the Bible where “faith” and “alone” are used in the same verse is James 2:24 where it plainly says, “24: You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
But because that is what you want to believe that is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but I wouldn’t believe Gendron about the Catholic Church, because those of us who know what it really teaches DON’T leave it and then if we ever do find out what it teaches compared to non-Catholic churches, we come home…just like I did. I’ve looked his website over and he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
This is nothing more than more of your anti-Catholic rhetoric which you cannot support from facts and I challenge you to open a thread in the Apologetics forum here and prove to us all on that thread that Catholicism is a ruse. I assert right now that you cannot do it, and that I and my fellow Catholics here will rip whatever “proofs” you provide to shreds.
Am I being “too hard on you” now? :yawn:
I don’t think so at all.
Am I gonna cut you any slack in our debate? NO WAY.
I have been here on CAF for well over a year and in that time I have seen a truckload of bunkum unleashed on us here in opposition to our faith and in general the majority of n-Cs who have offered it have been far and away less charitable to us than we have been in return.
I believe that what really grinds their backsides to the bone is not that we are uncharitable, (though there are some of us who need to read carefully before we respond) but that we take their allegations apart methodically and factually and that they are offended that we can do that and don’t fall on our faces and renounce the Catholic faith.
I LOVE my faith, and I came back to it via a very hard won battle that took over 34 years. I wouldn’t be Catholic if I thought for a second that it wasn’t the fullness of Christian truth. I love the n-Cs that I interact with on here, and some like Zooey, SinginBeauty, RyanL’s wife, and stillsmallvoice are dear friends, but many many more are very hard to love as they attempt to tell us that we are wrong when in almost every case they have just as miserable comprehension of Catholic belief and teaching as you have displayed in this and your other posts to date Alfie.
Are we too hard on them you ask? Relative to the way that Catholics are treated on some of the n-C forums listed above and some of the others that I am on…they have nothing to gripe about and have in fact died and gone to heaven…
Should we strive to be more charitable? Absolutely!
Should we back down in the presentation of the truth when confronted with bunkum and ignorance? Absolutely NOT!
Some of you n-Cs have a very messed way of “witnessing” if what I’ve seen so far is an example of your idea of charitable and knowlegeable faith sharing.
Pax vobsicum,
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Church_Militant
Guest
I don’t think that you have been around the forums long enough to make a statement of this kind, though I agree with you concerning His Holiness. However, these folks don’t go to him for answers… they attack us.
Much of what you cite above is not “bullying” at all, but the simple presentation of facts. Something that Benedict XVI has done for years prior to becoming pope.
I have very rarely seen a thread on this forum that “bashes” n-C faiths and the mods here are careful to insure that that is not allowed, holding us Catholics here to a higher standard, while allowing and encouraging us to debate and offer accurate answers to n-Cs who post here.
One thing you may not have twigged to is that almost all of the forums here on CAF are in fact debate forums. It is in the nature of Apologetics to have to do that to some degree, and frankly, most of those n-Cs who get heated responses get them because they enter the discussion with heat and offensive anti-Catholic rhetoric to begin with.
There is no bullying here on CAF… the mods wouldn’t allow it, and most of us wouldn’t participate in it.
Pax tecum,
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
I almost never go in GT anymore - I have a hard time holding charity with such spite.
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Ortho
Guest
How does one figure out what Catholics believe? I hear all kinds of different things from Catholics.
For example, it looks like most Catholics think artificial birth control is OK. Then others say Catholics don’t believe it it.
Catholics vote for candidates that support abortion. Then other Catholics say that is unacceptable.
Lots of Catholics are divorced. Then other Catholics say Catholics don’t believe in divorce.
Many Catholics supported disconnecting Terry Shiavo. Then other Catholics said that was murder.
I suppose someone will say one should consult the catechism to find out what Catholics believe. But by consulting the catechism, we just see that many Catholics don’t believe the catechism.
This looks very much like a free-thinking group.
For example, it looks like most Catholics think artificial birth control is OK. Then others say Catholics don’t believe it it.
Catholics vote for candidates that support abortion. Then other Catholics say that is unacceptable.
Lots of Catholics are divorced. Then other Catholics say Catholics don’t believe in divorce.
Many Catholics supported disconnecting Terry Shiavo. Then other Catholics said that was murder.
I suppose someone will say one should consult the catechism to find out what Catholics believe. But by consulting the catechism, we just see that many Catholics don’t believe the catechism.
This looks very much like a free-thinking group.
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Paris_Blues
Guest
Are we too hard?
Well, we can be charitable and teach them the Truth of what the Church was meant to be or we can be mean nasty Catholics and just say that their beliefs are a bunch of bs (not saying all are, just making a point).
I think there’s a time where we as Catholics need to be more bold in some cases because we love our Protestant brothers and sisters and should tell them the Truth in love.
But in most cases, they are the ones who should decide to believe it or not. I mean, I HOPE they believe and know the Fullness of Truth; I don’t want them to be led astray. But we can’t force them to believe.
Well, we can be charitable and teach them the Truth of what the Church was meant to be or we can be mean nasty Catholics and just say that their beliefs are a bunch of bs (not saying all are, just making a point).
I think there’s a time where we as Catholics need to be more bold in some cases because we love our Protestant brothers and sisters and should tell them the Truth in love.
But in most cases, they are the ones who should decide to believe it or not. I mean, I HOPE they believe and know the Fullness of Truth; I don’t want them to be led astray. But we can’t force them to believe.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
I have to request that you refrain from mocking or putting down the faith of the many people on this forum. Many issues have importance do to Biblical reference in the Church and there are reasons for all practices of the Church. Many here feel strongly to their beleifs and trust in the Catholic Church.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
It is sad that so many Catholics do not even know the Faith…but that is a problem for those people who chose to dissent rather than pointing a finger at the Catholic Faith itself -* (wherein lies unmovable Truth.)*
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