Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here?

[seabird3579]

Ortho:

I’d add the Catholic Church in America is subject to court decisions.

If a court decision goes against Catholic teaching, Catholics will go to jail First before they abide by an unconstitutional court opinion. Court opinions, or as you call them “decisions” are not law. They are only court opinions. If the Department of Justice chooses to enforce an unconstitutional decision, Faithful Catholics will go to jail first.

Any “decision” that throws Catholics into jail is by its nature “unconstitutional” because there is nothing in Catholic doctrine that is contrary to our U.S. Constitution. However, there are rogue justices that do not fully *Understand * the Constitution who no doubt in the future could issue an unconstitutional decision.

If that be the case, Faithful Catholics will go to jail first. But big deal, Scripture in as much says that they will throw you into prison and bring you before courts,…“on account of Me.”

 

[Ortho]

seabird3579:

If a court decision goes against Catholic teaching, Catholics will go to jail First before they abide by an unconstitutional court opinion. Court opinions, or as you call them “decisions” are not law. They are only court opinions. If the Department of Justice chooses to enforce an unconstitutional decision, Faithful Catholics will go to jail first.

Any “decision” that throws Catholics into jail is by its nature “unconstitutional” because there is nothing in Catholic doctrine that is contrary to our U.S. Constitution. However, there are rogue justices that do not fully *Understand * the Constitution who no doubt in the future could issue an unconstitutional decision.

If that be the case, Faithful Catholics will go to jail first. But big deal, Scripture in as much says that they will throw you into prison and bring you before courts,…“on account of Me.”

We can test the willingness of Catholics to go to jail when a court ruling goes against them. A court in Portland rules the parish assets belong to the diocese. The bishop says this is against canon law.

Who will be the first to go up the river? I say nobody goes. What do you think?

We also see courts in California forcing Catholic Charities to provide birth control coverage for employees. New York courts just did the same thing. Who went to jail?

All this jail stuff sounds really cool unless you are the one being measured for the striped suit. Then the fuller understanding clause kicks in.

 

[Malachi4U]

Ortho:

I probably could provide that stuff, but the effort isn’t worth it…

So, to make a claim is worthwhile but to prove it factual and real is futile? Do you work fo Al Jazera Arab TV per chance?

When I heard Baptists say, “John the Baptist founded my denomination” we should just accept it as real and factual?

When my Baptist friend said I, “Worship statues as idols” I should just believe him?

When my Baptist friend said, “Foxes Book of Martyrs is ALL true” I should just beleive him?

When I see it on CNN or read in the New York Times I should just believe it without proof?

Oh well, proof is just something we don’t need anymore. OK, I guess I’ll jsut have to believe what the Mormon “elders” told me this morning as true, since they also had NO proof of it.

You may not know this but I have grown to respect you and your opinions. You often make a good case and point. To be honest, this shocked me that it came from you. Perhaps you just had a ‘senior’ moment? You’re setting a higher standard for the Protestants on this sight so don’t take any steps backwards.

When I go to Protestant sites like my old Baptist sites. I learned I had to back “EVERY” statement with facts and Scripture or they just called it a lie. I at least had to have the facts ready when asked. Even when I gave Scripture quotes they often still denied it was true.

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

So, to make a claim is worthwhile but to prove it factual and real is futile? Do you work fo Al Jazera Arab TV per chance?

When I heard Baptists say, “John the Baptist founded my denomination” we should just accept it as real and factual?

When my Baptist friend said I, “Worship statues as idols” I should just believe him?

When my Baptist friend said, “Foxes Book of Martyrs is ALL true” I should just beleive him?

When I see it on CNN or read in the New York Times I should just believe it without proof?

Oh well, proof is just something we don’t need anymore. OK, I guess I’ll jsut have to believe what the Mormon “elders” told me this morning as true, since they also had NO proof of it.

You may not know this but I have grown to respect you and your opinions. You often make a good case and point. To be honest, this shocked me that it came from you. Perhaps you just had a ‘senior’ moment? You’re setting a higher standard for the Protestants on this sight so don’t take any steps backwards.

When I go to Protestant sites like my old Baptist sites. I learned I had to back “EVERY” statement with facts and Scripture or they just called it a lie. I at least had to have the facts ready when asked. Even when I gave Scripture quotes they often still denied it was true.

I really don’t have to back up my claim. Terrty Schiavo was taken off life support because the courts ruled for Michael. You can demand proof of that all you want. The body should suffice.

I don’t care what you believe about Baptists. Go for it. Believe.

Do what you wish with CNN or the NYT. Perhaps your Sunday church bulletin will shed some light on them.

It’s OK with me if you believe Mormon elders. Pay attention. You might learn something.

No senior moment at all. I simply made an evaluation of cost benefit. The cost of providing what you asked for outweighed any benefit to me. I chose myself over you.

If you don’t like the way you are treated at protestant sites, just don’t click on them. But if you go there, you might ask if Terry Schiavo is still alive, or did the courts rule for Michael. Why do you let people at those sites tell you what to do? Think for yourself.

Care to prove Jesus is God?

 

[seabird3579]

Ortho:

We also see courts in California forcing Catholic Charities to provide birth control coverage for employees. New York courts just did the same thing. Who went to jail?.

Forcing Catholic hospitals in California to supply contraceptives is still under court review, I believe it is still at the appellate level. You can be sure (or can we?) that the Supreme Court will not force Catholic hospitals to go against their religious beliefs. On the other hand, they may duck the issue and hide behind the “Congress shall enact no law” clause regarding religion. It seems this government pulls that one out of the hat when its convenient for them to do so. I hope the new Chief Justice will have the courage to take on this issue IF and When it comes before the Supreme Court.

If anyone has followed this particular issue more closely, I would like to see maybe a new thread opened regarding it.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?

Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible , but you know what I mean), etc…

Please pass on your thoughts.

I’ve been faced with hostility just for voicing disagreement or asking a question. For instance, I asked about the inverted cross, and someone accused me of thinking catholics are satanists; just because I stated that most people in our society most associate the inverted cross with satanism. (something hollywood and the media is to blame for.)

That’s why I don’t bother asking too many quetions about Catholic theology. I know I’ll offend someone and catch heck for it later. There is an unfriendly atmosphere on this site at times.

(just being honest! )

 

[Singinbeauty]

Chris LaRock:

I’ve been faced with hostility just for voicing disagreement or asking a question. For instance, I asked about the inverted cross, and someone accused me of thinking catholics are satanists; just because I stated that most people in our society most associate the inverted cross with satanism. (something hollywood and the media is to blame for.)

That’s why I don’t bother asking too many quetions about Catholic theology. I know I’ll offend someone and catch heck for it later. There is an unfriendly atmosphere on this site at times.

(just being honest! )

The catholic faith definitely does NOT have the corner hold on being beaten for their beliefs, whether in real life or online, but they do seem the most vocal. For the most part at least. But thats ok. SOME catholics just like to play the victim. Just like SOME protestants do.

Are the catholics too hard on protestants on here? Whether they are or aren’t makes no never mind to me. As long as the moderators (who have the power to ban people here) are fair and considerate I say flame away. I try to keep my cool and turn the other cheek (so to speak). I have had my beliefs called idiotic, unreal, stupid, garbage, just plain silly, etc. on here and on other boards. But after the initial shock of it all I pretty much try to love that person just like Christ would and take another step back from the catholic faith and look at it from a different angle. Attacking someone from another faith is NEVER a good evangalizing tactic because a lot of the times (as I am sure any catholic who has been attacked can agree) it just makes you dislike the religion further.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Kitty Chan:

Im really beginging to believe in my pet theroy that people attend particular churches because of their personality. Being one that is in between them at the moment I find it all rather interesting. Something I didnt notice when I was inside.

That’s been my theory for years! I keep saying that people are “congregating” according to their “gifts” and eliminating the spreading around of the “gifts” for the edification of the entire Body. That’s the beauty of Catholicism. It all stays in one Church, not to be divided up in that way.

Just an added thought!

God Bless,
Jeanette

 

[Ortho]

seabird3579:

Forcing Catholic hospitals in California to supply contraceptives is still under court review, I believe it is still at the appellate level. You can be sure (or can we?) that the Supreme Court will not force Catholic hospitals to go against their religious beliefs. On the other hand, they may duck the issue and hide behind the “Congress shall enact no law” clause regarding religion. It seems this government pulls that one out of the hat when its convenient for them to do so. I hope the new Chief Justice will have the courage to take on this issue IF and When it comes before the Supreme Court.

If anyone has followed this particular issue more closely, I would like to see maybe a new thread opened regarding it.

I’m not familiar with a particular Catholic hospital case in California. Are you talking about providing contraception to hospital clients or employees? The Cathoic Charities case revolved around the requirement for employers of a given size to include contraception in insurance coverage.

The Catholic hospitals would probably be governed by the Catholic charities insurance case if they supply insurance to employees. This is because the test the court defined would classify both Catholic Charities and hospitals outside the religious restriction in the legislation.

Yes, the case is being appealed.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi yes, I find that you all are driving me away with all the censorship.

 

[ISTPQ]

well i’m irish, and i can answer a definite YES. the church is getting weaker. when you take away the romanticisms and the idealism about representing the body of christ etc, and actually look at the facts, you can clearly see that the catholic church is fading away. twenty years ago the church had complete authoritave control over this country, in the schools and the government. now a church is lucky if it fills 1/4 of it’s seats on a sunday, such is the disconnection that my generation feels with the church. such a fall from grace.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Having drifted far off topic and into other issues, this thread is now closed.

 

[Neverland]

The sad thing is that not only the number, but the quality of Christians in general is weakening too. May be we have to start a campaign of love again, starting from oruselves, our family, friends.
I also believe that the unpopularity of Christianity is due to the negative campaign by “The World”. That’s why I am glad that I find a film titled The Gospel. I think it’s a good film (I only read the synopsis, about the revival of a Church - but I think it’s protestant).

Neverland

 

[Church_Militant]

ISTPQ:

well i’m irish, and i can answer a definite YES. the church is getting weaker. when you take away the romanticisms and the idealism about representing the body of christ etc, and actually look at the facts, you can clearly see that the catholic church is fading away. twenty years ago the church had complete authoritave control over this country, in the schools and the government. now a church is lucky if it fills 1/4 of it’s seats on a sunday, such is the disconnection that my generation feels with the church. such a fall from grace.

Yet as you say all that I see so many coming into the church and coming home, as well as the renewal of so many people day by day.

Often I have to ask? What are you doing to rebuild the church? Do you hear the Lord’s voice the way St. Francis of Assisi did?

If we have the knowledge and faith, why are we not teaching in our parishes and sharing our faith with others? Things won’t get better with us just sittin’ here on our backsides whinin’ and cryin’, now will it?

As to the original question…Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here? I don’t think so.
How many of you have seen the Catholic Answers tract called “How to Deal with Differences”? Very good stuff there, and I wish they’d put it on their library site.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Neverland]

Dear Church Militant,

Some are, if you care to see my discussion with a member here in “engage to non catholic”.
Look I always try to say that we are ONE in Jesus Christ. And we are. Our way may be different, but We Love Jesus Christ and Jesus loves us, and We try to be like Him.

In Jesus Love

Neverland

 

[Church_Militant]

Daniel Marsh:

Hi yes, I find that you all are driving me away with all the censorship.

Then you are saying something that violates the Forum Rules? I have yet to see anyone around here get “censored” unless that was the case. If you have a problem with the moderation here you are always free to contact them via PM and ask about whatever it is on your mind. I’ve interacted with every single moderator on here as well as the Super Mod and the Admins and they have always been respectful and fair with me. It has been my experience that CAF is one of the most balanced and decent forums that I’ve been on. If not, I wouldn’t be posting on here.
Pax tecum,

 

[Church_Militant]

Neverland:

Dear Church Militant,

Some are, if you care to see my discussion with a member here in “engage to non catholic”.
Look I always try to say that we are ONE in Jesus Christ. And we are. Our way may be different, but We Love Jesus Christ and Jesus loves us, and We try to be like Him.

In Jesus Love

Neverland

I never said that there aren’t some Catholics on here who could use a lesson in charity. I fully agree that there are some who need to get a grip and be kind to those of you who are non-Catholics. I try real hard to be a good example, but at the same time speak the truth and it isn’t always easy when talking to people who have been misled or decieved or misinformed about the Catholic faith. But then that’s why this site is here.

I searched out the thread that you mentioned and read over your exchanges with the folks there. I think that you missed some of the points that they were attempting to make, and if you’ll PM me I’ll get into that a bit with you if you like, since it’d be off topic on this thread.
Pax tecum,

 

[TamaraS]

ISTPQ:

now a church is lucky if it fills 1/4 of it’s seats on a sunday, such is the disconnection that my generation feels with the church. such a fall from grace.

I live in the Des Moines, Iowa area and our church can’t grow fast enough. Last night our Church was on the news because of our “growth problem” (good problem to have). Our Church is quite large (I’ve heard the Lutheran church across the street from us call our church “Little Jerusalem”). We keep adding on. A few years back we built an even larger worship space and enlarged our gathering space. Our mass times are still so full that they line the back of the worship space with stackable chairs, then put rows of them out in the gathering space. And we still do a nice job of maintaining the beauty of the structure. We have about 700 children in our religious education, that’s not including our Catholic school has a long waiting list. We have about 2,500 families (that’s a pretty good size for West Des Moines, Iowa). Lots of children!

 

[BrianH]

TamaraS:

I live in the Des Moines, Iowa area and our church can’t grow fast enough. Last night our Church was on the news because of our “growth problem” (good problem to have). Our Church is quite large (I’ve heard the Lutheran church across the street from us call our church “Little Jerusalem”). We keep adding on. A few years back we built an even larger worship space and enlarged our gathering space. Our mass times are still so full that they line the back of the worship space with stackable chairs, then put rows of them out in the gathering space.

Agreed here in Kansas, when I visit with friends…they are booming…they have to have 4 or 5 services per church to get everyone in…and if you are less than 15 minutes early…the seating stinks.
BH

 

[TamaraS]

BrianH:

Agreed here in Kansas, when I visit with friends…they are booming…they have to have 4 or 5 services per church to get everyone in…and if you are less than 15 minutes early…the seating stinks.
BH

You’re so funny! I am such a snail when I type! I edited my post by adding a little more to it and when I was done you had already responded to my post. Yes- it’s a great problem to have, isn’t it? We have 5 mass times each weekend. I really think they should add another one somewhere.