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Malachi4U
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The Church is growing but the clergy is shrinking. It could only happen with God watching out for us!
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JMJ
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sadie2723
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Let me state once and for all that I think that that Catholics are not being hard on Protestants here. What is true is that there are some major holes in Protestant belief. That is not say that they are all going to burn or that they are not saved as we are. Still, when you enter into a debate with those who understand the Church, you may be offended when you determine that there is nothing that the Catholic Church teaches that can’t be well defended with scripture. I think that the frustration that some Protestants feel when confronted with this fact may be being interpreted as our being hard on them. Well, sometimes the truth is hard to hear…especially when it comes from a people you have been taught are devoid of truth. To any Protestants that might have been offended by the truth…sorry.
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Singinbeauty
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I don’t mind when a catholic comes at me with scripture to verify what they believe and to justify some of their practices. What I do mind is being told that my belief is idiotic or stupid. That’s uncalled for. And yes, I do feel a bit bristled when I read that you believe that my belief system definitely has some holes in it. I do not see this and I believe that what is in my heart, mind, and soul is very real and whole. It’s the same as if I were to come on here and tell you that YOUR belief was idiotic or stupid with holes in it everywhere. But I don’t because I respect my catholic brothers and sisters and know that they are on a path to seek God.
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sadie2723
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Point well taken. I have a great amount of respect for my Protestant brothers and sisters. Sorry about the comment about the holes in Protestant theory. I did a poor job of defining that. What I meant by that was that, as a person who left the Protestant faith, I found that there were some questions I had that did not seem to have definitive answers. Those were answers that I found in the Catholic Church.I don’t mind when a catholic comes at me with scripture to verify what they believe and to justify some of their practices. What I do mind is being told that my belief is idiotic or stupid. That’s uncalled for. And yes, I do feel a bit bristled when I read that you believe that my belief system definitely has some holes in it. I do not see this and I believe that what is in my heart, mind, and soul is very real and whole. It’s the same as if I were to come on here and tell you that YOUR belief was idiotic or stupid with holes in it everywhere. But I don’t because I respect my catholic brothers and sisters and know that they are on a path to seek God.
If I upset you, that was not my intent. Sorry.
Really,
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Church_Militant
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You know that I agree with you . As you point out, it cuts both ways.I don’t mind when a catholic comes at me with scripture to verify what they believe and to justify some of their practices. What I do mind is being told that my belief is idiotic or stupid. That’s uncalled for. And yes, I do feel a bit bristled when I read that you believe that my belief system definitely has some holes in it. I do not see this and I believe that what is in my heart, mind, and soul is very real and whole. It’s the same as if I were to come on here and tell you that YOUR belief was idiotic or stupid with holes in it everywhere. But I don’t because I respect my catholic brothers and sisters and know that they are on a path to seek God.
However, I don’t believe that the Catholics as a whole here on CAF are unduly hard on the non-Catholics that post here. There are a few of us who are not good examples of Christian charity, but I think that the vast majority of the Catholics here are not guilty just as not all non-Catholics that we encounter (like my friends Zooey and SinginBeauty and stillsmallvoice) are rabidly and vitriolically anti-Catholic.
I have to offer this quote from Frank Sheed that we probably all need to keep in mind. “A man who does not want his religious opinions criticized should keep it to himself: to utter them is to offer them, and you cannot offer your views with a proviso that they are for admiration only.” (taken from the Catholic Answers tract: “How to Deal with Differences”.)
Pax vobiscum,
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pnewton
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No, but sometimes they are, I agree. Then there are others that are not. I do not advocate, though, that we should do unto others as they do unto us, but as they* should* do unto us. I would hope that this place always leads the pack in kindness and openness. But then I believe we have nothing to lose from polite debate. Maybe these other sites do.Any idea why they are so harsh and often rude to us on so many of their sites?
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Singinbeauty
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No apology necessary. I may get a bit bristled but it is a far cry from being offended. I think that one of the major things that both sides have to get into their heads and hearts is that as much as you believe and love your faith and that you have found the ‘right’ path so do I. You have passion and love for what you have found as I have for what I have found. To understand where the other side is coming from, not for a defense or for an attack but for love of your sibling in Christ, is where to start. There are times to be blunt but these are for times with those who are close to you and not those of whom you don’t even know. If you don’t know them personally you don’t know their hearts and where they stand with God. To brow beat someone in order to win them may only break their spirit and maybe even their fire for God. Because who is to love them if their sibling in Christ can’t even show it?
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Mickey
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**Let us, then, speak here about Christian love which enfolds within its embrace and holds not only our own relatives, brothers, friends, and acquaintances, but all men, and most of all those that are of the household of faith and brethren according to the Christian spirit. Two fruits of this love are explained here; first, to do evil to no one; and second, to show mercy and compassion to a neighbor in need. **
St. Tikhon of Zadonsk
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wiconvert
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Sometimes - when I come accross attitudes like this I wonder why I ever left the Lutheran Church to become a Catholic. What do you care for how they worship? Leave them alone - they are praying and worshiping the same God you are and just becuase they don’t do it exactly like Catholics do doesn’t mean that they need your advice and your patronizing condesending attituides or your help.
I know many many many faith filled Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists who live their faith every day - better than alot of Catholics do and don’t take the time that the Catholics seem to take to point out whats wrong with everyone who is not Catholic.
Knock it off - go out and spread the word of Christ and stop putting yourselves on such a high horse. There are not just only Catholics in Heaven and Christ didn’t come just to save us. He came to save everyone and it’s not up to you to decide who is going, who is right and who is so wrong.
Stop judging everyone else and pay attention to your own house.
There is enough to clean up within our own Faith that we don’t need to be pointing at someone else.
I know many many many faith filled Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists who live their faith every day - better than alot of Catholics do and don’t take the time that the Catholics seem to take to point out whats wrong with everyone who is not Catholic.
Knock it off - go out and spread the word of Christ and stop putting yourselves on such a high horse. There are not just only Catholics in Heaven and Christ didn’t come just to save us. He came to save everyone and it’s not up to you to decide who is going, who is right and who is so wrong.
Stop judging everyone else and pay attention to your own house.
There is enough to clean up within our own Faith that we don’t need to be pointing at someone else.
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tom4JC
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Was Jesus Catholic?I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too?)
Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?
Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?
Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?
Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible, but you know what I mean), etc…
Please pass on your thoughts.
What about those who died before Jesus’ atonement for sin?
Were they Catholic?
Were Adam and Eve Catholic?
Is God the Father Catholic?
Is the Holy Spirit Catholic?
You’re not being fair to Protestants.
You’re not being fair to Catholics.
More importantly, you’re not being fair to yourself.
Where does ‘your’ interpretation of God’s Word come from? Is it part of your own ME-ology, or someone elses? God’s Word will never be returned void. God’s Word is a seed. When the seed falls on someone’s heart, if the heart is hardened there will be no growth. If the heart is open to receive it, the seed will grow and produce fruit.
As for me, I am saved. Now.
I am justified. Saved from the wrath to come.
I am sanctified. Set apart to do carry out the will of God for my life.
I am glorified. In the eyes of God through the blood of Jesus Christ.
In a simplified version - I am not what I should be. I am NOT what I used to be. And better yet - I am not what I’m going to be !!!
If you think the Bible teaches you can’t be saved until death - my friend, you don’t know the Bible.
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Eden
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You do not have the authority to interpret the Bible for us. Are you familiar with the history of the compilation of the Bible and why you do not have the authority to give your own personal interpretations?
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shawnbm
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I understand (and I am technically a Protestant since my Western church is not in full communion with the Roman See)that we are all REDEEMED by Christ’s once-and-for-all sacrifice on the Cross, but not all are saved by virtue of that in terms of admission to heaven and dwelling in the presence of the Most High. Was Jesus Catholic is a red herring–there was no Church until His ascension and the passing on of the Holy Spirit and it is the Church (the Catholic or Universal Church) instituted by Christ Himself that is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible. See Ephesians 2: 19-20; I Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 1: 22-23. Even the heavens’ angels listen to the Church (not the Bible). Ephesians 4: 11-16. So, since the Bible has NEVER taught everything that has constituted orthodox Christian faith since the first centuries (the Catholic Church), you can’t rely SOLELY on the Bible, but must rely on the Church for teaching, instruction and the ministration of the Holy Sacraments instituted by our Lord and carried on by His Apostles in the Church since that time. Hence, since the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught from the time of Christ that faith is a journey (as opposed to a personal conversion experience, although that is a key part of any faith journey) and one can lose that promised land by taking up with heretics, backsliding and falling into mortal sin, I comprehend orthodox Christianity to view your personal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures to be errant, although there is some truth in parts of what you have just posted. Even so, He calls ALL to be saved and that is what we must try and do through not only our words, but our lives. Shalom.
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seabird3579
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My friend, if you have the fortitude to stick around, and the Humility to learn a lesson, I have complete confidence that the brilliant apologists on this site will help you see the error or your ways…
However, you might want to start a new thread that says something to the effect: “Tell me why I’m **Not ** once save, always saved!”
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tom4JC
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Yes, I’m well aware of the history of the compilation of the Bible.
I do not claim to have any authority.
I do have questions for you though.
When the Ethiopian Eunich was reading Isaiah while riding in his chariot, what did he ask Philip?
Have you ever heard of Constantine?
Look, I can’t tell you what the Bible means to you. I can only tell you what it means to me. That’s all I claim.
In the beginning was ‘the Word’, the ‘Word’ was with God, and the’Word’ was God.
The 'Word became flesh and dwelt among us. How many different ways can one interpret that?
The Muslims worship the Quran, the actual book itself. True Christian believers worship the ‘Person’ of the book. The Rama , not the logos
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MrS
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pretty well stated… one question?
When are you coming home?
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MrS
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The bible, when properly interpreted does not say this… because it does not say you are saved at one time… death, mid-life, at a particular time/day etc.
St Paul teaches that it is a process… which if completed by our death - and then the sheep are separated from the goats, not here on earth.
You may think think you are a sheep forever… but some one is pulling the (goat) wool over your eyes.
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mercygate
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Constantine? Where are you trying to go with that?
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Mickey
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Please don’t start the Constantine apostasy conspiracy again. We have been subjected to those lies too many times here.
Thanks and God bless,
Mickey
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Eden
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If you are well of the history of the compilation of the Bible, why do you accept the authority of the Church and its Bishops to decide which books were inspired yet you reject the Church in every other way?
Also, if you accept the authority of the Bishops at Carthage and Hippo to set the Canon in the 4th century, why does your Bible not contain the entire Canon set at that time?
Further, how were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of the Scripture in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc.?
Answers to these questions and more can be found at:
catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchfathers/volume37/ecouncil3718.cfm
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bengeorge
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Yes. You are all way too brittle and angry to the Protestants. I would never in a million years send a Protestant friend here to be evangelized.
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