Are we liking other religions too much?

[WFS5801]

Listen to the dinamics in Christ teaching.

Until His transfiguration he clear preached that He is sent to the Jews

You’re talking about Judaism before Christ’s death and the ripping of the Temple veil from top to bottom. What’s called Biblical Judaism – it was the true religion of God. After the destruction of the Temple and the ceasing of the sacrifices (and the rejection of their Messiah), Judaism turned into something else with new rites and the Talmud called Rabbinical Judaism. This false religion grew up along side, and in opposition to, Catholicism. Your mixing up apples with oranges.

I don’t know what plans God has for Judaism (as a religion or people) in the future, but at the present time Jews (just as any other people) must be saved through the Catholic Church, either by converting to Catholicism or by living to the best of their knowledge to serve God and invincibly ignorant of the True Church.

“No man comes to the Father but by the Son.”

 

[WFS5801]

As I said, you will need to trust the Church in her teachings, and the Holy Spirit through the Church’s teachings. You are most certainly free to question the Church’s teachings in an honest effort to understand them, but good Catholics (which is to say, good Christians) are not free to reject them.

Reject which ones? Pre-Vatican II or post-Vatican II teachings? If they directly oppose one another we must reject the novel teachings. Truth can not contradict itself.

There is One, True, Catholic and Apostolic Church. All other Religions are false. This has nothing to do with personal humility, this has everything to do with the honor the True Church Christ founded deserves – at the very least from Catholics.

 

[meltzerboy]

You’re talking about Judaism before Christ’s death and the ripping of the Temple veil from top to bottom. What’s called Biblical Judaism – it was the true religion of God. After the destruction of the Temple and the ceasing of the sacrifices (and the rejection of their Messiah), Judaism turned into something else with new rites and the Talmud called Rabbinical Judaism. This false religion grew up along side, and in opposition to, Catholicism. Your mixing up apples with oranges.

I don’t know what plans God has for Judaism (as a religion or people) in the future, but at the present time Jews (just as any other people) must be saved through the Catholic Church, either by converting to Catholicism or by living to the best of their knowledge to serve God and invincibly ignorant of the True Church.

“No man comes to the Father but by the Son.”

Jews themselves do not distinguish between “Biblical” Judaism and “Rabbinical” Judaism. Torah Judaism still follows as many of the 613 commandments of Torah as it can (many can no longer be practiced) and the basic tenets of the faith as found in Maimonides’ “Thirteen Principles” are still adhered to. The Talmud in Judaism is based on Oral Tradition (but never contradicts the Mosaic Law of the Torah); just as Catholicism includes Scripture, Church Tradition, and the Magisterium and is thereby not Sola Scriptura, and Church Tradition does not contradict the teachings of the Gospel. There are no “new rites” in Torah Judaism. And I emphatically disagree with your statement that Judaism is in opposition to Catholicism. True, we do not believe in the divinity of Jesus; but we are not opposed to the practice of your faith. There is no era of history that I know of in which Jews actively discriminated against or persecuted Catholics. On the other hand, if you are using the word “opposition” simply to mean a difference in religious belief, I agree.

 

[t68ware]

As far as His Character is concerned – not to presume anyone fully understands Divine Nature – we believe in the same God. We all believe God capable of anger, compassion, mercy, that He’s One, etc.

Our perceptions of what God did, what are his plans, and why it’s this way – very different.

By the way, the Jewish perception of God is quite different, more so than Christian God minus Jesus. In fact, the Jewish and Muslim views of God are closer than the Christian and Jewish views.

It makes some further distinctions than that (e.g., you’re simply Catholic or not a Catholic), but the implications for not being a MOT is different, and not absolutely essential to salvation.

Your theology is in conflict with Church teaching.

To answer your second question, I don’t.

To answer your first:

1. So what they don’t believe Christ is God? Don’t you think they have unshallow, founded reasons for that?
2. We have to make good relations with Jews and Muslims.

We all have the responsibility of bringing righteousness into the world. The more help Christians can get, the easier it is for us to do our job.

(*Actually, some Muslims and Jews don’t feel the Church is cozying up to them. Matter of perspective.)

You disagree that Christ is the only way to God? really?? how many ways are there then? If believing that Christ is the only way to God is in conflict with Church teaching, then I am very sad I became Catholic. Believing Christ is God is a Scriptual truth…one that cannot be denied and still gain access to salvation. If the Church has THE answer about salvation, you should be very concerned that there are many who dont believe in Christ as the Incarnate God.

 

[laszlo]

You disagree that Christ is the only way to God? really?? how many ways are there then? If believing that Christ is the only way to God is in conflict with Church teaching, then I am very sad I became Catholic. Believing Christ is God is a Scriptual truth…one that cannot be denied and still gain access to salvation. If the Church has THE answer about salvation, you should be very concerned that there are many who dont believe in Christ as the Incarnate God.

Theologically Christ is the only way to God in the sense, that Christ is the Second Divine Person who incarnated, and thus elevated the human nature and through that the whole creation to God. Without the incarnation (at least after the original sin) there is no way for human being to be elevated to God.

This is entirely different from the question weather one should be Catholic or should be at least baptized to be united with God or not? The probable answer to this question is no, there are people who were not baptized and are saved. This is definitely true for those whom Jesus personally took to the heaven when He descended to Hell; but with high probability is true to the unbaptized who did not reached the age of decision (including the aborted children): Christ merited the salvation from the original sin, and they have no personal sin. Also probably true for those who do not know enough about the mysteries of our faith to accept or reject it, but basically have a honest life, and with their life chose God instead of the sin.

 

[Bezant]

You disagree that Christ is the only way to God?..really?? how many ways are there then?

We know where God is, we don’t know where He isn’t.

If believing that Christ is the only way to God is in conflict with Church teaching, then I am very sad I became Catholic.

Why? Something / Someone brought you here.

Believing Christ is God is a Scriptural truth…one that cannot be denied and still gain access to salvation.

Well, it’s a moot Scriptural point and interpretative point.

If the Church has THE answer about salvation, you should be very concerned that there are many who don’t believe in Christ as the Incarnate God.

I agree, as far as the Church is has the answer about salvation, the Church is the best way to salvation, but not the sole way to salvation.

 

[Seamus_L]

The Martyrs Of North America didn’t endure extreme hardship and horrific torture for the belief that all roads lead to Heaven.

 

[TrueLight]

The Martyrs Of North America didn’t endure extreme hardship and horrific torture for the belief that all roads lead to Heaven.

I’m actually dumbfounded by the openness to other faiths that I see in this thread. Why be Catholic?

 

[Seamus_L]

Just get yourself a St Joseph Baltimore Catechism and you’ll be fine.

 

[TrueLight]

Just get yourself a St Joseph Baltimore Catechism and you’ll be fine.

Are you saying that the Baltimore catechism is more traditional than the CCC, second edition?

 

[Seamus_L]

I’ve never seen anything that so beautifully and simplistically explains the Catholic. Every time I look at it I come away saying to myself, this is what I believe.

 

[TrueLight]

I’ve never seen anything that so beautifully and simplistically explains the Catholic. Every time I look at it I come away saying to myself, this is what I believe.

Okay, I thought it would be too simple. Isn’t that what Catholic schools used to use?

 

[laszlo]

Reject which ones? Pre-Vatican II or post-Vatican II teachings? .

The actual teaching, including the basic one:

Matt 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

 

[Bluegoat]

Overall, the Church has always acted as though a monotheistic God percieved by non-Christians is in some way a perception of the real God. It might be incomplete, it might have real error about God mixed in with truth, and it might even be really dangerous. But if people understand that creation originated in, and continues to be moved by, a single, underlying, undivided, self-existant principle, they are in some dim way percieving God.

Even when Paul visited the Greeks, he identified the altar to the uknown God as being of the real God. THis was I think to an extent a rhetorical device, but he was appealing to people on the basis of something they in some sense already knew, or felt.

And when successful missionaries go to people, this is almost always the basis they work on: God has an intimate connection with all human beings, and we can all percieve him spiritually and even intellectually. If you find where people are with that, you can give them more with real hope they can accept and understand it.

OTOH, many times the Church has taken a different tactic. She has not looked for common ground, she has not seen that other people have a relationship with God even if they don’t know it, they have nort respected their beliefs or intellectual accomplishments, or even their cultural accomplishment.

How well has this worked at converting people? I would suggest that even though much of this happened in the past, even today it prevents people from realizing that Christianity has truth and Christ is God.

People are always ready to tear down other people, they don’t want to respect them, they don’t want to learn even what they think, because it is “wrong”. People don’t need encouragement to do that, they do it on their own. They do need someone to tell them that they need to respect other people, and see that they already have a relationship with God and a real perception of him.

So no, I don’t think the CC is way off here in general. They really can’t do worse that the other method.

 

[Samuel63]

Truelight, there is only one reason you should be catholic. It is the faith God came to earth to establish and save us through. We have 7 sacraments to heal and strengthen us. We have saints, verified and documented miracles, martyrs, hope, charity. This is the faith!

Today we have people like Rev. Robert Sirico of the Acton Institue spreading great intellecutal insight. We have in our current pope, one of the greatest minds of my time on earth. We have great soldiers for Christ like Michael Voris that is on www.realcatholictv.com.

When I survey the landscape in our current age, the catholic church stands out like a “pearl of great price.” Sure, it has some heretics, some fallen priests, etc. Look deeper and see the history, tradition, presence of the Holy Spirit.

You got some good advice earlier to get a Baltimore Catechism. I recommend a book also - The Faith Explained, Leo Terese.

God bless everyone!

 

[TrueLight]

Truelight, there is only one reason you should be catholic. It is the faith God came to earth to establish and save us through. We have 7 sacraments to heal and strengthen us. We have saints, verified and documented miracles, martyrs, hope, charity. This is the faith!

Today we have people like Rev. Robert Sirico of the Acton Institue spreading great intellecutal insight. We have in our current pope, one of the greatest minds of my time on earth. We have great soldiers for Christ like Michael Voris that is on www.realcatholictv.com.

You got some good advice earlier to get a Baltimore Catechism. I recommend a book also - The Faith Explained, Leo Terese.

God bless everyone!

Thanks.

I’m actually reading Peter Kreeft’s Catholic Christianity right now which is an excellent book.

When I survey the landscape in our current age, the catholic church stands out like a “pearl of great price.”

I’m not so sure about that. Not if being Catholic, Protestant or Muslim is all the same. Not if Catholics are becoming more and more liberal.

 

[Samuel63]

I agree. Our faith is definitely not the same as protestant and muslim. The protestant faith is a successful establishment of a heresy.

The muslim faith is well, without miracles and witnesses. This is one of the many faiths in the world that was created by a single person based on private revelation (no witnesses). There are no miracles associated with this faith either (no stamp of God’s approval).

I am grateful to be in a faith, by the grace of God, that has public revelation and miracles in every age. What a tremendous joy!

I have to come back down to earth share some personal points related to liberal version of the catholic faith. My home parish is quite liberal. I am trying to correct a lot of errors there. It takes time, patience, learning the faith, and experience in battling the parish establishment. I agree with you, a liberal catholicism is not the answer.

When it comes to absolute truth, there is only one version. You cannot be liberal or growing liberal. This is the effect of the Modernist Heresy in our church today. It will pass over time.

Hold fast to the one true faith!

 

[t68ware]

Thank you for all the answers and small debates. My opinion of other religions has not changed…we have the answer as Catholic Christians, all the other religions are an attempt to find God, but only Christianity has the true answer. I do not believe that hoping others just walk through the doors of our parishes is enough, we must evangelize those not in the faith. My Protestant upbringing has taught me that we must be very active in a fallen world to point all peoples to Christ. As in the Protestant church, it seems Catholics, as seen in my thread, disagree on who is 'in the club" and who isnt…that is why we must always live and preach the truth, so that no one will be left without excuse. i love my Catholic faith, but I am becoming concerned over liberalism, as seen in the protestant church. God bless you all!

 

[wisdomseeker]

I agree in principle with what you say. Interfaith dialog and understanding of one another’s religious beliefs are essential if we wish to live together peacefully. Historically, it hasn’t worked out too well so far (what an understatement!); but, on the whole, at least regarding Christianity and Judaism, it is significantly better today than in years gone by. Why should we reverse the trend? I’m not saying, however, that the OP would like to do that. Rather, they seem concerned about keeping Catholics in the Church and, perhaps more important, justifying their belief that Catholicism is the true and full Word of G-d, so that being a Catholic does makes a difference and is not merely interchangeable with other Christian or non-Christian faiths. I can understand that view. Nonetheless, I think this goal can be achieved while, at the same time, encouraging Catholicism to embrace other people’s faiths, not necessarily as co-equals, but as worthy of respect.

Peacefull!!! this reminds me of what Jesus said, “when they all say peace, suddenly distruction will come upon them.” or something like that. something to watch.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Thanks.

I’m actually reading Peter Kreeft’s Catholic Christianity right now which is an excellent book.

I’m not so sure about that. Not if being Catholic, Protestant or Muslim is all the same. Not if Catholics are becoming more and more liberal.

I think if we know the Truth, we need to stick with it. although the CC is suffering right now because of so may rebels insided, we still need to stick by the Church and trust God to clean up the mess. There are the Traditional Masses being celebrated in many different places and there are NO also that are reverent, just support what is reverent to God.