Are we losing a sense of the sacred?

[Tigg]

I remember way back when our churches were not locked and you could enter any time of the day or night to a silent, dark room alight only with flickering candles and the sanctuary lamp lighting the tabernacle. And as the church filled for, or emptied after Mass, there was very little talking. Almost everyone stayed a few moments for private devotion when Mass was over. Even the children were quiet. It was almost as if everyone knew they were in a holy place, a place of awe and wonder. Of course, this was prior to Vat II and Novus Ordo.

I had posted on another thread that I felt we were losing a sense of what is sacred and holy. I believe this is a very serious topic and one deserving of its own thread. I was hoping to avoid discussion of anything pre-Vat II, but just discuss the things that seem to be detrimental in our communication with God and the ways that interfere with our worship of Him in our churches and daily life today.

Is it an overall “loss of faith?” Stats recently show that only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence any more.

Does vulgar and/or immodest dress at Mass contribute?

Is it the music?

Have we lost the notion of “Sacrifice” and the sense of the priest’s special anointing as a result of too much laity participation?

Have we lost the sense of reverence before the King and become lax and casual in conduct?

Are we emphasizing community too much?

Is it the Cheerios in the forward pew that the toddler left behind at the prior Mass?

Are we losing a sense of the sacred in our churches (and interiorly?) And how can we get it back?

 

[glenaitken]

yup…pray and be holy

 

[MarieVeronica]

After an absence of 10 years, and subsequent return… Praise God… I noticed many of the things which you have described. And I have often found myself sitting in the pew… with a dumbfounded feeling… and wondering… “when did THAT start?”

But, one day… watching EWTN… I heard some very good advice. I can’t remember who said it… but it was this… “you don’t leave Jesus, because of Judas” (or something to that effect).

Well, it got me thinking. Our dear Lord promised: “And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18).

I think that those of us who remain loyal to the Pope and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church… will always exist in the Church… till the end of time. We are living out the promise of Our Lord, by our faithfulness to His Will.

While these things are sometimes disturbing… still, they will not destroy the Catholic Church (Our Lord said so!). But we must pray, continue to be obedient to the Pope and receive the Sacraments. And in the words of our late Holy Father, John Paul II… “Be Not Afraid”. Hope this helps. God bless.

 

[chrisb]

I remember way back when our churches were not locked and you could enter any time of the day or night to a silent, dark room alight only with flickering candles and the sanctuary lamp lighting the tabernacle. And as the church filled for, or emptied after Mass, there was very little talking. Almost everyone stayed a few moments for private devotion when Mass was over. Even the children were quiet. It was almost as if everyone knew they were in a holy place, a place of awe and wonder. Of course, this was prior to Vat II and Novus Ordo.

I had posted on another thread that I felt we were losing a sense of what is sacred and holy. I believe this is a very serious topic and one deserving of its own thread. I was hoping to avoid discussion of anything pre-Vat II, but just discuss the things that seem to be detrimental in our communication with God and the ways that interfere with our worship of Him in our churches and daily life today.

Is it an overall “loss of faith?” Stats recently show that only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence any more.

Does vulgar and/or immodest dress at Mass contribute?

Is it the music?

Have we lost the notion of “Sacrifice” and the sense of the priest’s special anointing as a result of too much laity participation?

Have we lost the sense of reverence before the King and become lax and casual in conduct?

Are we emphasizing community too much?

Is it the Cheerios in the forward pew that the toddler left behind at the prior Mass?

Are we losing a sense of the sacred in our churches (and interiorly?) And how can we get it back?

I think Rome lost a sense of the sacred back when they were ripping the Holy Altars out of their Churches. We didn’t hear a peep out of Roman Catholics when this was going on. Why all of the sudden is this a big deal?

 

[Tigg]

I think Rome lost a sense of the sacred back when they were ripping the Holy Altars out of their Churches. We didn’t hear a peep out of Roman Catholics when this was going on. Why all of the sudden is this a big deal?

I’m not certain what you are referring to.

 

[chrisb]

I’m not certain what you are referring to.

This is just ‘one’ example…

unavoce.org/cambria_destruction.htm

 

[Tigg]

After an absence of 10 years, and subsequent return… Praise God… I noticed many of the things which you have described. And I have often found myself sitting in the pew… with a dumbfounded feeling… and wondering… “when did THAT start?”

Oh, we are so very glad you came back home again! You perhaps appreciate the holy and sacred more than the rest of us, who, oftentimes get into a state of apathy without realizing we are doing so.

I had another thought about this subject…living in our own little hectic worlds I think we need to be open to the Spirit to draw us out of ourselves a bit and lead us into the MYSTERY of God.

 

[iona_scribe]

I don’t think those things are the exact cause of the loss of our sense of the sacred, though I’m sure they resulted from it and act to perpetuate it. I think it stems from inner attitudes, and the changes that happened in the culture at large.

I lived in NYC for a couple years, and I loved to visit St. Patrick’s cathedral. Many people are drawn there each day by the great beauty of the architecture and sculpture within. But there is clearly a difference between people who understand the significance of where they are, and those who don’t. The former pray quietly in the pews or light candles. The latter come bustling in with bulging shopping bags, talking loudly.

To fix the problem, I think it’s probably best to spend the most energy going after the root and not just the symptoms. Teach people where they are, and who they’re going to receive in the eucharist, and reverance will follow more naturally (or at least that was my own experience).

 

[Tigg]

This is just ‘one’ example…

unavoce.org/cambria_destruction.htm

Can they actually do this to a blessed item upon which our Lord’s Body and Blood rested? Part of a church? I did ask a priest about this, and he said once its usefulness is gone (broken or worn out in the case of a scapular), I could just throw the item away. I feel guilty doing this, so I always wrap the religious item in a clean cloth before putting it in the trash.

But an altar? That has to be different! Lord have Mercy! I guess it’s just an item, but it almost seems sacriligious, doesn’t it?

 

[Paul2274]

This is just ‘one’ example…

unavoce.org/cambria_destruction.htm

This is really disturbing and yes it does seem a bit sacreligious

I agree with most of what the OP said about how things seem to have lost its sense of “Holiness”.

I have seen however that in Churches were importance and “awe”
has been taught and practiced about the Holy Eucharist and Adoration has been started and kept up, that the parish flourishes
and like with the program in our Diocese (Dallas) we had 20 seminarians for the 2006-2007 year.

Paul

 

[chrisb]

Can they actually do this to a blessed item upon which our Lord’s Body and Blood rested? Part of a church? I did ask a priest about this, and he said once its usefulness is gone (broken or worn out in the case of a scapular), I could just throw the item away. I feel guilty doing this, so I always wrap the religious item in a clean cloth before putting it in the trash.

Actually I have always understood that such items should be burnt or buried.

But an altar? That has to be different! Lord have Mercy! I guess it’s just an item, but it almost seems sacriligious, doesn’t it?

um, I think it ‘is’ sacrilegious…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The relics are removed before throwing out the old altar, and it doesn’t have to be burned, because, there are probably no places to burn such things in a safe practical manor.

Also, the article doesn’t say, but my guess is as these church’s were remodeled, the old altars are replaced with new ones, which are just as sacred as the old ones.

Its impractical to think that parishes shouldn’t remodel their buildings, unless they have the type of archetecture and fixtures that can indure centuries of use.

The parish I grew up in, has a marble altar, there will never be a need to replace it. Wooden altars on the other hand, as seen in the pics, will eventually have to be replaced.

Of course this has absolutely nothing to do with the loss of sacredness, that we see in our parishes.

What has more than anything to do with it, is that the younger generations are no longer schooled by the nuns, who enforced the sacredness that older Catholics learned, from the time we entered school. Back then, unless you had serious financial difficulties, it was a sin not to send your children to a Catholic School. The nuns had much to do with the chuch atmosphere we had in those days.

Visit a public school today, you’ll see the reason why there is no sense of sacredness in Church. There’s no sense of respect in any public place these days. Movie theaters, town meetings, libraries, forget it. Nothing like when I was growing up.

Cetechesis in the United States is where the sacredness should be taught, but sadly, using the words of then Cardinal Ratzinger, from about 20 years ago, “CCD the USA is a disaster.”

Jim

 

[water]

I was hoping to avoid discussion of anything pre-Vat II,

I hope so…but it looks like it has already started. You can’t really avoid it when having this kind of topic.

 

[po18guy]

All evidence of cultural Catholicism. This reflects the corruption of our society creeping into the church, which is a reversal of our mission. I can’t say who initiated this corruption, but I can certainly tell you who is pleased with each of them: He comes from “roaming the earth and going back and forth in it” in the first book of Job.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Feedmysheep]

I’m going with more mobility in society.

As people became more accustomed to life without roots, a whole lot of the religious rhythms of that life got lost.

Without a strong, vibrant Catholic community to hold you accountable, there’s a lot of cultural tide-swimming that most people simply don’t have the energy for anymore.

 

[daily_rosary]

I think that much of this comes from society. I’d been away from the Church for eighteen years. When I came back, I was surprised by a definite casualness in the parish I joined. I thought it was just my parish, but in my travels I’ve seen this in many other parishes as well.

I’m a high school teacher, and there’s definitely been a change in the amount of respects students show authority figures, but, sadly enough, this casualness can’t just be blamed on the young. I think this comes from all of us. We see others relaxing their standards around us, so we feel that we can too.

With that said, I also think that there needs to be a balance. It’s good to have the outward signs of reverence for our Lord, but only if we understand why we do them. Especially on the part of young people, there seems to be a lack of knowledge of the Mass and the basics of our Catholic faith. I think this is where we all can step up to the plate and start talking about our faith with each other.

 

[Tigg]

This reflects the corruption of our society creeping into the church, which is a reversal of our mission.
Christ’s peace.

I agree with your statement. From the inner person (lack of self discipline and denial of self) to the outer person (the grunge look of today) the corruption feeds and seems to spread to areas of rebellion (against society and church) and materialism, both of which are huge detriments to the spiritual life.

And life itself? How can we return to the sacred when God values the dignity of human life above all else, but we instead, abort our babies, manipulate life in test tubes, and euthanize our old or sick.

 

[mullenpm]

I am so tired of comments like this:

“Of course, this was prior to Vat II and Novus Ordo.”

Please don’t blame all the ills in the world or in the RCC on Vatican II; and we who worship in churches with the Novus Ordo are every bit as Catholic and respectful as you are. How unChristian and mean-spirited are the people who are continually spreading hatred and division in our Church. :knight1:

Perhaps you are the problem; not the Novus Ordo Mass.

I am old enough to remember pre-Vatican II very clearly but I also pledge loyalty and respect to the Holy Father and the Vatican.:knight2:

 

[Tigg]

I am so tired of comments like this:

“Of course, this was prior to Vat II and Novus Ordo.”

Please don’t blame all the ills in the world or in the RCC on Vatican II; and we who worship in churches with the Novus Ordo are every bit as Catholic and respectful as you are. How unChristian and mean-spirited are the people who are continually spreading hatred and division in our Church. :knight1:

Perhaps you are the problem; not the Novus Ordo Mass.

I am old enough to remember pre-Vatican II very clearly but I also pledge loyalty and respect to the Holy Father and the Vatican.:knight2:

**You have totally misunderstood the point of this thread. ** That’s why I specifically said, “I was hoping to avoid discussion of anything pre-Vat II, but just discuss the things that seem to be detrimental in our communication with God and the ways that interfere with our worship of Him in our churches and daily life today.”

Please do not accuse me of not being loyal to my church or the Holy Father. I do not even consider myself a “Traditionalist” in the strictest sense of the word and I attend the Novus Ordo daily. The statement, "“Of course, this was prior to Vat II and Novus Ordo,” was merely making a factual observation.

"How unChristian and mean-spirited are the people who are continually spreading hatred and division in our Church." I happen to agree with you. Please look at the title of this thread and read the flow of conversation. You are way off base! And I must say, I am extremely surprised at the vitriol in your post given this is a Christian thread.

Blessings!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I have seen on multiple threads where people blame everything on the Church, the Novus Ordo and on Vatican II. Believe me, such is not the case. We have a society now where anything is available to people of any age who can sit down at a computer, and I mean anything. From that what is holy to that which is most sacrilegious. This is an insidious influence on our society and our children. People who do not recognize this have on blinders. Even in schools, things are done and taught and given to children hat 50 years ago would not have been able to be dreamed of by us who lived at that time.

But as usual, the Church is attacked and blamed and many people gullably swallow these lies. Remember, the wolf (Satan) does not attack the false sheep (those Churches which are not Catholic)

The corruption in society is not creeping into the Church, rather it is creeping into the people who make up the Church. Please make this distinction.

If people who go to Church, feel that the atmosphere is much too loose, that is easy to correct. Do not take part in conversations going on around you and/or refuse to do so. When one does this, it tends to quite down those around them.

I could go on and on, on means to correct this, but if each person simply stops and looks at what he or she alone is doing, much could be corrected, and very fast. We love to blame others, but not look at ourselves. Any correction needed, should be examined from the perspective of how I can personally contribute to that correction It is infectious as others around will soon start to feel self conscious, unless their stated purpose is to disrupt.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B