Are we losing the evangelization race to Protestants?

[MasterAsia]

I am very sad to share to you guys it is official. The most famous Catholic in the world after the Pope is not any more Catholic. He is a “born again” protestant just this year.

For the first time in his life, the Pacman did not wear the Holy Rosary yesterday. I was told he also did not do his customary Sign of the Cross.

 

[Poof]

A background on the weighted statements above. The most powerful archbishops and bishops in the Philippines were fighting for then Chief Justice Corona who was subsequently found guilty of culpable violation of the law (of all laws it was the constitution) and was forcibly removed from office.

A weird thing here is that the Catholic bishops aligned themselves with anti-Catholic Protestants Iglesia ni Cristo in saving a corrupt official’s skin.

WHOA WHOA! I don’t know what the Church said on the issue to make you or some people so upset but I’m not surprised that they did (defending corona in some way). Corona’s impeachment is valid but the way government handled the case was just wrong. P-noy’s personal animosity towards Corona is no secret (as he blames him for losing luisita). He has shown it at his refusal to sign him in (Corona) into office and in launching a merciless attack on Corona on the time of his impeachment, not only as a government official but as a person. The government directed all of its resources into tarnishing his character, they carried out bloated exaggerations on the gravity of his offense and unnecessary attacks on his family life and problems. Corona’s grandson even cried because everyone was making fun of him at school. A large chunk of what was said in the media was propaganda and the attacks on his personal life, irrelevance to the trial aside, was just too much. I’m glad the media began to apologize post-trial but it still doesn’t undo what has been done to Corona. My dad has a high position in the government, (and to dispel any assumptions, he isn’t corrupt. He is on the verge of retirement and he was asked to take this position as P-noy came into office. He just wanted to serve his country and do something good.) he knows a lot about this case, having connections in both ways as he is also an old family friend of one of Corona’s brothers (and he has a great family, as they came over to the house for old times sake) and he told me during the waning events of the trial that although he wasn’t pro-Corona, it’s hard not to pity him. And this is coming from a guy who was a strong supporter of the government who condemned Corona together with everyone else early on). There are a lot of things the our fellowmen don’t know about the case.

What exactly did the Church say about the Corona case? Because I doubt that they said “We’re for Corona and he should not be impeached”. When our church here in the Philippines says something, they usually have a good reason for doing so. I don’t see what the church could possibly gain in vouching for Corona.

10 masses a day on a Sunday? Please cite sources, because the most that we’ve seen are five in a holy day.

Confessions will depend on the availability of the priest.

I can vouch for this. In my area (Alabang, Metro Manila) we have 9 masses on Sunday. Confessions happen every day except Sunday and priests are almost always available. Perhaps it’s my area, as there is only one Protestant church nearby that I know off (the new life) and we are far from those Iglesia ni Christo who I hear are gaining considerable numbers but the people here are devout and well catechized. My area has a sizable Opus dei population (one of my high-school batch mates even became one), a big charismatic community, there are also a lot of Catholic organizations in the area, prayer groups are common among adults in the village and most importantly, the youth are engaged. No exaggeration.

We are naturally against abortion, this is the Philippines, even liberals (majority) are against abortion. We are against divorce.

Liberals are the majority? In the Philippines or in your area? That’s sad! I don’t go out of my area much but I never knew they were the majority. How’s the Catholic situation in your area?

 

[Poof]

I am very sad to share to you guys it is official. The most famous Catholic in the world after the Pope is not any more Catholic. He is a “born again” protestant just this year.

For the first time in his life, the Pacman did not wear the Holy Rosary yesterday. I was told he also did not do his customary Sign of the Cross.

We had a gathering in the house the other day as we hosted a viewing on the fight and when everything was over, one of my Tita’s said, “that’s what you get for being born again!” (jokingly of course). Everyone was shocked and asked if it was true and according to her it was (she said Manny is currently under the influence of a protestant pastor or something across those lines). I can’t believe you Manny!

 

[MasterAsia]

It is good to see fellow Filipinos here.

WHOA WHOA! I don’t know what the Church said on the issue to make you or some people so upset but I’m not surprised that they did (defending corona in some way).

…

What exactly did the Church say about the Corona case? Because I doubt that they said “We’re for Corona and he should not be impeached”. When our church here in the Philippines says something, they usually have a good reason for doing so. I don’t see what the church could possibly gain in vouching for Corona.

I shall be listing later what the highest Filipino Church officials have said about the Corona case.

I can vouch for this. In my area (Alabang, Metro Manila) we have 9 masses on Sunday. Confessions happen every day except Sunday and priests are almost always available. Perhaps it’s my area, as there is only one Protestant church nearby that I know off (the new life) and we are far from those Iglesia ni Christo who I hear are gaining considerable numbers but the people here are devout and well catechized. My area has a sizable Opus dei population (one of my high-school batch mates even became one), a big charismatic community, there are also a lot of Catholic organizations in the area, prayer groups are common among adults in the village and most importantly, the youth are engaged. No exaggeration.

Since you are late in the discussion the context of my answer for the allegedly 10 masses a day is equal to one priest. Surely there are instances of more masses than five in a holy day, but those masses are officiated by several different priests.

Also the gist of my argument since the beginning is that the Catholic laity is more active than the clergy in evangelization. Please read the thread starter’s first post for guidance. Evangelization, as in, preaching the faith to non-believers. Clergy simply does not do that anymore.

Liberals are the majority? In the Philippines or in your area? That’s sad! I don’t go out of my area much but I never knew they were the majority. How’s the Catholic situation in your area?

Majority of liberals, as in liberal adherents (majority). Majority is a modifier of liberal adherents. And the word even denotes a separate but greater extent… Oh my gulay naman…

 

[MasterAsia]

We had a gathering in the house the other day as we hosted a viewing on the fight and when everything was over, one of my Tita’s said, “that’s what you get for being born again!” (jokingly of course). Everyone was shocked and asked if it was true and according to her it was (she said Manny is currently under the influence of a protestant pastor or something across those lines). I can’t believe you Manny!

No Catholic priest nor any bishop (who openly called on Pacman to clarify his Catholicism - what for?) went to Pacman to give him just guidance and Catholic apologetics. (again a point of this thread)

Pacman’s born again conversion is a testament to the workaholic evangelization efforts of a lot of different Protestant pastors.

 

[Trebor135]

we are far from those Iglesia ni Christo who I hear are gaining considerable numbers

Absolutely appalling. Iglesia ni Christo, as you know, aren’t just another form of Evangelical Protestantism: they’re an arianizing sect, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses–but even more insular, perhaps totalitarian.

Why do you think this is happening?

 

[Poof]

It is good to see fellow Filipinos here.

Same here.

I shall be listing later what the highest Filipino Church officials have said about the Corona case.

Since you are late in the discussion the context of my answer for the allegedly 10 masses a day is equal to one priest. Surely there are instances of more masses than five in a holy day, but those masses are officiated by several different priests.

Also the gist of my argument since the beginning is that the Catholic laity is more active than the clergy in evangelization. Please read the thread starter’s first post for guidance. Evangelization, as in, preaching the faith to non-believers. Clergy simply does not do that anymore.

Majority of liberals, as in liberal adherents (majority). Majority is a modifier of liberal adherents. And the word even denotes a separate but greater extent… Oh my gulay naman…

Ok. My bad.

As for the laity being more active than the clergy in evangelicalism, I can’t comment on that. I have limited knowledge about our priests and their aggression to evangelize non-Catholics but I wouldn’t be surprised if what you’re saying is true. The laity do a lot of work here.

 

[Poof]

No Catholic priest nor any bishop (who openly called on Pacman to clarify his Catholicism - what for?) went to Pacman to give him just guidance and Catholic apologetics. (again a point of this thread)

Pacman’s born again conversion is a testament to the workaholic evangelization efforts of a lot of different Protestant pastors.

It also attests to the poor cathechis of some of our countrymen.

 

[Poof]

Absolutely appalling. Iglesia ni Christo, as you know, aren’t just another form of Evangelical Protestantism: they’re an arianizing sect, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses–but even more insular, perhaps totalitarian.

Why do you think this is happening?

Poor cathechis. Unlike in America, we don’t live our lives surrounded by people of different religious beliefs, in my country, we’re mostly Catholic. There are a lot of people know the basics, mortal-venial sin, prayers, etc but refuse to go beyond them and learn more about what they believe in. So when these non-Catholic proselytizers evangelize, these people are at a loss at what to say. They don’t know about church history and are ignorant about the scripture backing what we believe in. Thus, they are easily swayed by others into other religious sects. In the end, it’s because of ignorance and I hope the church finds a way to resolve this growing problem.

 

[MasterAsia]

Absolutely appalling. Iglesia ni Christo, as you know, aren’t just another form of Evangelical Protestantism: they’re an arianizing sect, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses–but even more insular, perhaps totalitarian.

Why do you think this is happening?

I hope you don’t begrudge me answering this.

Two things.

1. Community of Believers - Iglesia ni Cristo is a socially cohesive denomination. They are for all intents and purposes, an extended family - acting like a nuclear family. Ministers (their pastors) are intimately pro-active, much like in the olden days when priests would still walk hand-in-hand with their parishoners.
2. Community of Builders - When it comes to sharing grace, what comes around, goes around. Financial contributions are readily re-invested for the benefit of the community of believers. They would build their trademark churches where the community can readily access them. They would build churches even if there are only a few of them. They would build spiritually self-sustaining communities. They would invest in caring (medical services and the like) for their own members. In the Philippines the Catholic bishops are inclined to keep billions of assets in holdings. Some bishops would readily align with leftist organizations, disenfranchising their own flock. Some bishops would even defend Muslims’ interest first, and neglect pastoral duties. Some priests are deeply involved in fighting for other religions, disenfranchising their own flock. Can you love your own family first.

Similar to Iglesia ni Cristo is the Catholic Laity organization El Shaddai. In the Philippines, El Shaddai is the most noticeable ROI for believers; even beating the Iglesia ni Cristo. El Shaddai would really use the money for feasts (think Thanksgiving-like, they would buy whole roasted cows, lechon, and others for the WHOLE sitting congregation). El Shaddai like Iglesia ni Cristo would REINVEST in infrastructure that benefit their members. El Shaddai calls for direct involvment of the laity in pastoral and maintenance of their assets. El Shaddai is very young yet so active that is why they beat Iglesia ni Cristo. El Shaddai is now implementing a transparent accounting of all funds. But Iglesia ni Cristo beats the Catholic bishops and most Protestant organizations.

 

[MasterAsia]

It also attests to the poor cathechis of some of our countrymen.

Which in turn, attests to… (hint: the thread title)

 

[mangy_dog]

You don’t think Roman Catholic rolls of the tongue? Throw in “Apostolic” at the beginning and I guarantee an opportunity to evangelize.

Very cool,

I prefer the tongue twisters: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic- while making the sign of the cross.

I’m all in buddy.

 

[MasterAsia]

This is to share the very sad state of affairs the Filipino bishops do.

Overwhelmingly more than 90% of Filipinos love Americans (we are for Americans and Japanese), and yet bishops defy democracy (yet again) by openly supporting anti-American and leftist-communist groups. In the process these bishops provides indirect support to communist Beijing who is now engaged in military threats and economic sanctions against the people of the Philippines. Please bear in mind that China is also persecuting our brothers and sisters in the faith.

Philippine churches turn on Manila over US troops
Source: abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/06/12/12/philippine-churches-turn-manila-over-us-troops

Sigh… Just imagine if they were only evangelizing…

 

[cvdream]

I have a particular interest in Muslims who convert to Christianity and in particular Catholicism due to having Muslim friends. I was reading an article on how 6 million Muslims a year convert to Christianity in Africa. I was just wondering how many of those were Catholic vs Protestant. I Dnt really hear that much about Catholic evangelization, but that’s all I ever heard as a Protestant. Do we Do it like the Protestants do and I just Dnt notice?

The priest at my church was just reading some stats and such at this past mass about the Catholic evangelization and it is down to 38% Catholic. When it was around 70% or 80% years ago. I think the protestants have taken over what used to be a Catholic country. It is happening in the US as well. Catholicism’s numbers have dropped exponentially.

 

[Trebor135]

The priest at my church was just reading some stats and such at this past mass about the Catholic evangelization and it is down to 38% Catholic. When it was around 70% or 80% years ago. I think the protestants have taken over what used to be a Catholic country.

Which country are you referring to? (Guatemala comes to mind, since a shift like that has occurred there.)

It is happening in the US as well. Catholicism’s numbers have dropped exponentially.

Indeed. One half of those former Catholics have become Protestant, the other half secular.

 

[MasterAsia]

The priest at my church was just reading some stats and such at this past mass about the Catholic evangelization and it is down to 38% Catholic. When it was around 70% or 80% years ago. I think the protestants have taken over what used to be a Catholic country. It is happening in the US as well. Catholicism’s numbers have dropped exponentially.

God bless your priest. Reading those statistics to the congregation is the work of the Holy Spirit.

I bet that priest has the hots for evangelization.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

I am very sad to share to you guys it is official. The most famous Catholic in the world after the Pope is not any more Catholic. He is a “born again” protestant just this year.

For the first time in his life, the Pacman did not wear the Holy Rosary yesterday. I was told he also did not do his customary Sign of the Cross.

Who the heck is “the Pacman”? You mean the video game?

I did a google search, and that didn’t help me. And I’ve never heard of this person before in my life. So, I’m going to posit that the vast majority of Americans have never heard of him either. Isn’t it obvious who the second most well-known Catholic is in the World?

It’s Mother Angelica. Followed of course by Timothy Cardinal Dolan.

This whole thread has really devolved into talking mainly about the Philippines. And the OP has long since left… always the demise of a thread.

As for suggestions earlier that Catholics were losing members to Protestants and secularism. Well… Protestants just so happen to be losing members to the Catholic Church as well as secularism. We’re both in the same boat in the same boat in terms of what organized religion is going through.

Anyways, I’m getting done with this thread: Here’s a link where you can look at trends for every denomination over the last 30 years (1980, 1990, 2000, and 2010) surveys. They have them for every U.S. state, and for most countries.

Here’s the one for the Philippines: thearda.com/internationalData/countries/Country_178_2.asp One survey shows 93% Christian total, of which 80-85% is Catholic.

 

[MasterAsia]

Who the heck is “the Pacman”? You mean the video game?

I did a google search, and that didn’t help me. And I’ve never heard of this person before in my life. So, I’m going to posit that the vast majority of Americans have never heard of him either. Isn’t it obvious who the second most well-known Catholic is in the World?

It’s Mother Angelica. Followed of course by Timothy Cardinal Dolan.

As a Filipino I am aware of his eminence Cardinal Dolan, but not Mother Angelica.

Manny Pacquiao.
Google: About 64,500,000 results
Bing: 34,500,000 results
News (Google U.S. Edition): About 165,000 results

Mother Angelica
Google: About 2,030,000 results
Bing: 32,400,000 results
News (Google U.S. Edition): About 1,380 results

Timothy Dolan
Google: About 2,000,000 results
Bing: 3,980,000 results
News (Google U.S. Edition): About 3,380 results

Recent News in U.S. that involve Pacman and Christianity (or Catholicism)

1. Manny Pacquiao and Gay Marriage: the Rope-a-Dope Strategy from Time
   Source: keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/05/17/how-to-beat-manny-pacquiao-the-rope-a-dope-strategy/
2. What Pacquiao Did and Didn’t Say from the Wall Street Journal
   Source: blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2012/05/17/gay-marriage-homosexuality-what-manny-pacquiao-did-and-didnt-say/
3. Manny Pacquiao: ‘To the gay community, I apologize’ from the Los Angeles Times
   Source: latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/manny-pacquiao-to-the-gay-community-i-apologize.html
4. Gays petition Nike to Drop Manny Pacquiao by Think Progress
   Source: thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/16/484975/manny-pacquiao-marriage/?mobile=nc
5. and many more…
   ‎

This whole thread has really devolved into talking mainly about the Philippines. And the OP has long since left… always the demise of a thread.

I disagree about the thread being devolved into mainly talking about the Philippines…
The Philippines is at the center in the battle for Catholicisms’ future. We are in diaspora. Many empty churches around the world are being filled-up by devout Filipino Catholics. We are the only Christian nation in Asia. We have direct links with Catholics inside China. We are the only nation who can serve as peacekeepers in East Timor without antagonizing Muslim Indonesia.

In Italy, Spain, Germany, etc… we provide the counter for secularism and Islamic immigration. In the world’s most Muslim countries millions of Filipinos are the ambassadors of Christianity and Catholicism (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, etc…).

We serve for the United States logistical supply for troops in the most dreaded battle zones on earth (Iraq and Afghanistan), thereby having Christian presence in the middle of Muslim extremist zones.

I hope our fellow Catholics worldwide will recognize the value of Filipinos within the Universal Church and her future.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

As a Filipino I am aware of his eminence Cardinal Dolan, but not Mother Angelica.

If you’ve heard of EWTN, then you’ve heard of Mother Angelica. She founded EWTN. Just the other day someone said, “Mother Angelica IS the New Evangelization” ‎

MasterAsia:

I disagree about the thread being devolved into mainly talking about the Philippines…
The Philippines is at the center in the battle for Catholicisms’ future.

We are in diaspora. Many empty churches around the world are being filled-up by devout Filipino Catholics. We are the only Christian nation in Asia. We have direct links with Catholics inside China. We are the only nation who can serve as peacekeepers in East Timor without antagonizing Muslim Indonesia.

In Italy, Spain, Germany, etc… we provide the counter for secularism and Islamic immigration. In the world’s most Muslim countries millions of Filipinos are the ambassadors of Christianity and Catholicism (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, etc…).

I hope our fellow Catholics worldwide will recognize the value of Filipinos within the Universal Church and her future.

I don’t want to devalue the Philippines. I just want you to know that I can’t contribute to a thread about Catholicism in the Philippines… which you admit has happened in this thread which is supposed to be about worldwide evangelism.

Anyways, if I wanted to play devil’s advocate I’d say: “well, you admit that none of the Filipino clergy are even orthodox… maybe that’s why the link in my signature shows Pope Benedict calling for America to be at the forefront of the New Evangelization.” … He’s quite concerned about orthodoxy after all. The Church is getting its own house in order right now… once most of the priests and Bishops are orthodox, we’re going to be evangelizing HARD!

Anyways, when I pray for the Church in Asia (which is at least weekly), I’ll definitely pray for the clergy in the Philippines. BTW, one of the main priests on EWTN is Filipino.

 

[wigglytug]

This is specific to Africa. In general, Catholics are losing the overall evangelization race. But in Africa, it’s more of a toss-up. Things could open up for you in southeast Asia at some point, too, but that’s another place where we have a head start on you.

Africa is the place you’re doing best, and America and Africa together are the places we’re doing best. Europe is bad for both of us, the Americas in general are bad for you, and there’s more immediate upside for us in the most populous parts of the globe. Overall, Protestants are gaining ground on you and leaving the Orthodox even further behind. But for Africa, taken on its own, my summary is something like what it is there.

Can any eastern Orthodox comment on their growth of their temples and churches and is our Evangelical friend here correct about his comments